Topic: Who went to 'college'?

[kslrr]

Graduated back in '85 with an AAS and a BS in Electronics Engineering Technology from DeVry Phoenix.  For the past 21 years, my chosen career has been in the field of Building Control Systems as a design engineer/technician/project manager.

[Ingrid]

I have been studying fulltime till I was 27 while working parttime and got my BC. Now I find myself stuck in temp work (although on a decent level) because I qualify as being to "old" to be a starter.
Anyway another thought.
Some years ago you had smart craftsman. Looking back in history at the Da Vinci's and Michelangelo and this used to be so until some ten, twenty years ago. Now everybody who can seems to get a degree and everybody is to "smart" to be in the craftsman jobs. It's real hard to find a decent bricklayer, electrician etc. whom can think for himself. Like Raul said, these jobs are gonna be golden pay for someone who can do it properly.
However, you have to find the thing your good at and your willing to spend a real big part of your life on doing. I'm still trying to find the job that does that for me. But that is why I do the temp work.
Everybody goes to work to get a paycheck at the end of the month.

[firecracker]

Reason (a libertarian magazine) just had a bit about this on their website:

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/121142.html

Nothing too enlightening, but since it was on topic, thought I'd share...

[clarkjh]

Graduated back in '85 with an AAS and a BS in Electronics Engineering Technology from DeVry Phoenix.  For the past 21 years, my chosen career has been in the field of Building Control Systems as a design engineer/technician/project manager.

I have an AAS (Alcohol Assisted Studies) and BS (Bull S&^T) in MCP and A+   I've worked as a computer repair tech for the last eight years.  That said I could also get my apprenticeship in carpentry, plumbing or electrical if I wanted to follow that path but then it wouldn't be any fun.  I went to secondary school of hard knocks for the most part.  It's not the money that I find important, but enjoying what your doing.  If that make lots of money then great, but if it doesn't you can still be happen doing something you enjoy.  If this sounds a bit uneducated it's just I have never been any good putting to paper what in running through the grey mater.

James

[Slapguts]

I've got my PHD.


Post Hole Digger. Go to college, or tech school, anything. I wish I would have. I've stumbled along my entire life doing jobs I didn't like, just to pay bills. I just hit 30, and am not very happy with how I spent my 20s. I'm in a kick ass rock band, and was positive I'd be able to do it for a living. I still think I could, but it's not easy to find 3 or 4 other guys who are willing to give up almost everything for the 3-5 years it takes to build enough of a following to make it as a pro musician.

So now I work as a production assistant at a small print shop. I like the job, I just wish it paid about twice as much as it does. I do some web design, and am considering getting a business loan to start out on my own.

[gregwaits]

I graduated from HS in '74 and went to college, leaving in '81 with 20 hours shy of a bachelors in music at the U of North Texas. I never thought I'd return. I hit the road, and did a few cruise ship orchestra gigs as well. After living in Europe freelancing as a trombone player, I did come back, finished my bachelors and got a masters degree in jazz as well. Not that these degrees do a damn thing, but at least I finished!

[Glenn Stauffer]

I have a very smart, very successful friend who has made a nice living in the computer field without a college education.  He is an exception in that he isn't a programmer and made his living in the corporate world.  He is now starting up his own consulting firm because he topped out in the corporate world - his lack of a degree meant management or any higher position was out of the picture.  And mobility between corporations was always a difficulty since getting the resume past the HR folks with no degree (he had one college course and gave up) is hard.

As for me, I pretty much had it with school after High School.  After working in retail and in factories for a bit, I went back to school in fits and starts.  Spent a year at RIT thinking I'd be a photographer; then half a year at Boston U thinking I'd be a journalist; then worked some more and went to night school and then finally worked some more and went to school full time and graduated with a finance degree only to end up in the computer field after I caught the bug.

My thinking is that a degree opens doors.  College is really about maturing and making contacts - something that is harder to do when you work and squeeze in school on top of it since you get disconnected from the social scene.  I don't know a single person from my College days.  And, in the end, you are best off getting as much education as you can stand.  For me personally, I'm starting to think that having some certification in a field like accounting, law, medicine or some other such field is a good way to set yourself up for the future.  Having a focused expertise does open up greater possibilities than being a generalist.  It gets easier these days since there are so many online colleges; if you have the discipline, you can get your degree from home which is great for someone like me who can't tolerate a classroom environment at all.

[Rocker]

I have been in the IT field for about 8 years. About 3 years ago I got my bachelor's of science in information technology degree. Did I get a raise afterward??? Nope. Since I graduated have become a HP certified technition, Avaya certified systems engineer, and a MCDST. Did I get a raise after each cert??? Yup!

College degrees (especially undergrad) are good but only as a prerequisite for a job and sometimes employers will let that slide if you are qualified elsewhere. Degrees are also good for management roles but that usually comes later in your career. I am 29 and am only focusing on certs for the next few years. I will eventually go for my masters but not for a while.

I have always joked that undergrad degrees only prove one thing..that you can retain information just long enough to pass an exam!

Should you get a degree? Yes
Should you focus on certs/tech school first? Yes

Just my 2 cents. Do with it what you will.

[Gordon]

I graduated from HS in '74 and went to college, leaving in '81 with 20 hours shy of a bachelors in music at the U of North Texas. I never thought I'd return. I hit the road, and did a few cruise ship orchestra gigs as well. After living in Europe freelancing as a trombone player, I did come back, finished my bachelors and got a masters degree in jazz as well. Not that these degrees do a damn thing, but at least I finished!

Did you know Dr. James Lerch, then?  I took private violin lessons with him in the early 90's. 

[Lumbee]

I'm more with the camp that says you DON'T have a ton of time on your hands.  Yes, you'r young, but life comes at you fast.  Just because you get a college degree doesn't mean you have to be stuck behind a desk.  There are engineers, wildlife/rec managers, metalergist, ect.  I was like you at 18, I wasn't sure college was for me (at least at 18), so I went in the Army.  Got my associates degree while I was in the Army, then got out at 23, and went back to school and got my BS in teaching.  Never taught a day in a school, ended up working in computers.  You may get a degree in basket weaving, but you may end up managing a vintage car restoration shop...you never know!  While working, went to night school and got my Masters (need to use up the rest of my GI Bill).  After 5 years in computers I got the itch to do something with my hands, and that led me to these old hondas.  Found a local tech school that offers night classes, and did a semester of welding, and been taking machining classes for the last year and a half (at night).  Sometimes a boring 9-5 gives you the opportunity to do the things you enjoy at your own pace.

I guess my point is I went the education/university route, is my "heart" in my job, the first few years it was, but I can't say it is now.  I sit around most days at work and think about bikes, and machining stuff.  Am I a "sellout" because I stay in a job I don't like, when I'd rather be doing something else?  Maybe, but I look at it this way.  I'm 35, and have a nice little nestegg (401K/Roth IRA), and potential earning power for the next 20+ years.  Also, make enough to do the things I enjoy when I leave work, ie, motorcycles, metal work.

I think sometimes people who say "follow your dreams" are being a little mellowdramtic, and a little naive.  Go to school!  It doesn't have to be college, it could be tech school, but education is something that you can put on a resume.  Its not everything, you still have to sell yourself in a interview, but its a start.

think about it like this, how many guys do you hear say "I wish I had more education"...now how many have you heard say "I wish I would NOT have went to school/college, and just wen to work."

[Raul CB750K1]

I got a side question. I have read here a few times about "night classes". I always thought "night classes" were actually given at nighttime, that is, from 22:00 or so for people that couldn't find any better time frame along the day. But it seems quite hard to work all day and steal sleep hours to yourself. When you say "night classes", which time of the day are they held? Because if it is something between 17:00 and 21:00, then since I was 15 I have gone to night classes on typewriting, shorthand, english, german, electric guitar and even ballroom dance!!!


Raul

[Bob Wessner]

My wife has just about completed here BA in Education taking 'night classes' and they were night classes. Some started at 5:00 P.M., a very few were Saturday classes. Most met from 7 P.M. to 10:00 P.M. It has taken her almost 8 years while holding down a fulltime job, and frequently most days were more than 8 hours. I give her great credit. I'm not sure I could do it.

[Rocker]

I know for a fact that college was not for me but I graduated anyway. I looked at it as a means to an end. It took me 10 years to get my bachelor's. I started college and went for about 2 years, took some time off, started back again, took more time off, and finally decided to complete my degree. All the while I was working full time. Looking back I don't regret getting the degree..rather the time spent getting it. 

[kach_me]

I went to college right from high school finished my bachelor's and master's and then straight to work.  Now I am looking at "balancing" my education out a bit with a "trade."  I know enough about motorcycle repairs to be dangerous  , so I'm looking a good on-line program in moto repair... my point is that sometimes you don't know what you want and it may take some time to figure it out.  My thought would be to go to school (any school)... once established then maybe your true interests will present themselves.  It's not gonna be easy working, school, family, etc, etc. but (hopefully) you won't struggle while you're searching for your niche.  

I agree with Lumbee except on his spelling of "Metallurgist"    <--- those folks are a pain-in-the-ass to recruit...

just my two cents

[Lumbee]

I looked at it as a means to an end.

amen to that...you don't have to love what you do, just love the things it allows you to do!

I agree with Lumbee except on his spelling of "Metallurgist"

...maybe thats why I didn't become a teacher!   

...when I was getting my masters we'd go 5pm to 9:30, sometimes 10 at night.  The machine classes I take now are 5pm til between 7/8pm...

[kach_me]

Lumbee... hardly anyone knows what a "metallurgist" is so I think you're safe there!   

[techy5025]

I went straight from high school to college and then to the one job I kept for 34 years...until retiring. While my degree was in electrical engineering, I have always done a lot of mechanical stuff. A friend and I overhauled two car engines in the parking spaces outside our dorm...nobody had money to pay to have it done..so we did it ourselves.

One of the smartest moves my Dad made was to buy me a set of Craftsman tools...which I still have and use...when I got my first car in high school. He would show me what to do, but I had to turn the wrenches myself. As a result, I feel comfortable working on most mechanical things. I told my neighbor the other day that if I take something apart and break it, at least I'll know what not to do the next time. 

I would guess that I have used no more than 20 percent of my college education directly, but that 20 percent was basic to learning new stuff like ASIC design that was not taught in the '60's. As has been stated in other posts, a college degree just gets your foot in the door and doesn't guarantee a job you will be happy with, but odds are you will get a better one and for more pay.

You really need to have a clear understanding of what you want to major in before you start and it helps if you are really interested in the subject matter. I can't imagine laboring through a degree program hoping that I would enjoy working in the study field upon graduation. Unfortunately, a lot of kids leave high school with no idea what they want to do.

Maybe getting a bike and riding around for a few years would help them decide what to do! 

Jim

[boatsdickson]

I know what a "metallurgist" is. Its the poor sun-ofa-gun who had to sit in that little room right next to the heat treat bays who tried not to soak QA reports with sweat while the maintenance guy tells me for the 10th time, "Yeah, I heard they might be adding an a/c in here this year...." Grumble, grumble..

Back to the original topic, I really recommend some form of verifiable college. Verifiable, meaning a ridiculous paper trail of accreditations for the type of company or person who might require it for employment or advancement. You might hire me based on my cnc knowledge and then I could prove myself at the workplace, but some companies wont concider me because they need a certificate proving I can do what I say, take a leak, or whatever.

Same scenario for someone else in the family.... Lady works for a surgeon for bout 15 years and can do most anything that the doctor requires that is far beyond a paperwork related skill. She has a doctors knowledge but not a doctors credentials. Now, doctor goes over the handle bars and cant even wipe himself and shes out of a job. The hospital pulls her file and sees her formal education papers, as compared to her working knowledge, then offers a job in the floater pool for about 15 bux less an hour. Her timeline needed documented to cover her butt a little.

If your younger, invest a little time at least into what it takes to receive an education but start a little smarter. Start by simply figuring out what it takes to start your financial aid paperwork and school entrance requirements. Those two things were harder to figure out than any classes I took for the first year and a half.

If worried about school, mainly about how much time it will take for some of those credits to begin stacking up, think about what you will or might be doing in the meantime if your not in school. You might dick off for 5 or 6 or 10 years while working and actually make a decent living, but by the time your 30+ your goals and requirements and pressures will more dictate what you will HAVE to do with your life instead of what you would LIKE to do.

This will make a person more bitter and resentfull as time goes on....so everyone likes to tell me. I think they're trying to tell me something.

Or another plan.... If your married, and have a wife who has more of a desire to study, and a greater number of brain cells left over from the 80's and 90's, put her in school. My wife loves the atmosphere of school, the time spent away from me , and the knowledge that by the time we have kids her psych career will save me all kinds of money paying for a doc of my own.

Probably the biggest fact right now concerning the school vs no school, the money that could be coming in right now with either one of us being degreed would be far more than the unemployment check that comes every friday.

[74cb750]

One of my brothers has degrees in Theology, Philosophy, French,  PHD in Special Education, and one other. Speaks/writes 5 languages and was offered a job teaching at McGill. Instead he took a job teaching special education kids, making much less $, more hours/headaches but he was happy doing that.

I went to college on a full sports scholarship, got hurt, loss  scholarship. Returned to college later and earned a BS. Now I work in a stupid big box store at near minimum wage. So, my point is the degree doesn't always help w income maximization, esp when all the major well paying employers moved overseas 10 years ago.

A high school friend of mine lied on a job application and started driving a tracktor. When he turned 21 he bought that truck. By the time he was 30 he had 10 trucks.....he retired at the age of 50. No degree there.

Life is what you make it. At least try to enjoy what you are doing.

My wife lives 10% above our income. I live 5% under it, therefore....

 
peace,
michel

[Uncle Ernie]

"My wife lives 10% above our income. I live 5% under it,"

Lor' hep me!
(and thank You for the small miracles that keep us alive)

[gar]

I went to college.  Definitely get an education.  If university is not a good match for you, get an education as a skilled tradesman.  What finally motivated me to go to graduate school was an assertion by Bill Gates, “If you know change is coming—and it’s only a matter of time—then what better time to prepare than now?”  Change could be getting older, thoughts of retiring (or never being able to retire),  having a spouse or family to support, competition for jobs, a need for increased income, a desire for self improvement or self actualization. 

Once you have an education, it’s yours….no one can take it away.  Scan the employment outlook of different careers.  Google this: O/NET.  It is a US gov site that has extensive information about different careers:  outlook, requirements, skills needed, aptitudes, salary, and so forth.  I would really recommend a “hands-on” job that can’t be outsourced… like an electrician.  Repair forklifts.  A lot of men are going into nursing.  RNs get good pay and the demand is skyrocketing.

Jobs like these require advanced training.  Consequently they are better compensated.  If these jobs were easy and required no training, then anybody could do it and pay would be squat.  I am not disparaging your current job, but do you expect frequent and large pay raises in your future?  Exactly.  Because the supply of prospective employees exceeds the demand.  Make yourself in demand – get that education!!

FWIW, you can get a college education online nowadays.  I took my masters degree coursework online.  It requires more discipline, but I preferred it to brick-and-mortar schools.  No commuting, classes don’t meet at specific times--- you take them on your own time.  Most of my grad school work was done from 10pm -2am…once the kids were in bed.  Just be sure to go to an accredited school.

[bgfootball67]

Sorta off track but, 74Cb750 what school took your scholarship away after getting hurt?   I attended and graduate while playing college football and had 3 or 4 friends get hurt to the point of not being able to play anymore, but the school did not yank their scholarships.  That sucks...

[Wheelhorse77]

I grab'd a two year right out of highschool in automotive technology. Continued Gen eds for another 3 years before I hit my BS in tech management from DeVry. It landed me a job as a project manager for office furniture, not the most exciting, but it pays decent. Only took me seven years of working full time and going to night classes to get a four year, but I can't preach enough, that you could make all of the money in the world, but if you hate what you do, it's not worth anything. After the BS I went on to grab my Advanced level master cert from ASE; was told it was needed for NATEF certified automotive programs; that is, to become an instructor.

If you love what you do, the money will be there. I am applying to be an automotive instructor at the college level and although it has been slow and it's hard to get into, I have yet to give up. Future goal is to complete a Grad degree in something--just to have it for the future. 

[mark]

My two cents worth and then some. Allow me to apologize in advance for the length of this post. A young man's life is at stake here and all that..

I was probably doomed from the start.
My mom kept a list of the words that I spewed forth as I was learning to talk. Among the first 15 or 20 at the top of the list were GO, CAR, and FAST. Since I had shown such proficiency with the spoken word, she then decided to continue with printed matter. Starting school reading years above grade level appeared to make the classroom a truly dull and tedious place to waste years of my life. But I digress....
The folks bought me an Erector Set for my second birthday. I didn't eat the screws.
In second grade, I took a carburetor to school for "Show and Tell". I knew what it was and what it did. There wasn't time in class to dis-and-reassemble it, but I could have.
A year or so later dad got a bright idea(mom didn't think so): Drag a car home from the boneyard and put it in the yard for me to mess with. Choices were a Peugeot 403 with no engine, or a '60 Renault Dauphine with half of one. That record player that moms have in them seemed stuck on "clothes ruined with car grease" until the Renault went away a few years later. I still have the Glenn's Manual it came with around here somewhere.
By then I was reading the tech articles in the "Motor" magazines that I would bum from nearby service stations. Neighborhood kids brought their basket case go-kart motors for revival.
The school that I went to in grades 7-8 cancelled their Annual Spelling Bee the second year to spare Jenny X. the trauma of losing again.
Changed the points in mom's Duster.
Had a mess of electives to fill in 9th grade, so took Wood Shop AND Metal shop.
Metal shop teacher WAS one of those inspiring types. Didn't inspire me to go to college but my lathe hasn't removed any body parts yet. Had a really nice '41 Ford convertible as a daily driver, too.
Some guy I met paid me $75 to put a head gasket in his Honda Civic. I followed the book and it ran better afterward.(probably the beginning of the end) Did brakes on his '65 Riviera after that.. Test drives were real nervous at 15 with no license and city cops everywhere.
Used up a bunch of 10th grade electives on a 2 period shop class - Beginning Auto Trades. Met a guy with a friend that did body work at a garage.
Another buddy got me a job in a theater as a projectionist. That helped later when serpentine belts got popular. Not much help with homework though. Saw Phantasm 347 times.
Got a summer job after 10th grade - making dumb widgets in a dumb factory. Bought a '66 Dart GT with a newer 318 and incinerated a mountain of 13" tires. Was informed that due to, um, attendance issues, the high school was done with my dumb a$$ and I could go to continuation school in a very rough part of town. I'm not that rough, so I kept my day job.. For a year. $104.75 a week and only 2 days to spend it!
Kyle met someone at a party one night. What's a speedball? Try it, you'll like it. John Belushi tried one a few months later and joined Kyle at that party in the sky.
The guy that ran the garage didn't mind if I hung out, If I didn't get in the way. After a while, he started paying me to change water pumps and such. I bought tools. After a couple of years his partner was calling me 'Doc' and asking how to fix stuff.. Deeky got leukemia and died at 25, leaving a wife and kid. We never found out if it was diet or genes or a few years of daily exposure to automotive chemical crap or what.
A couple years later I took the A.S.E. tests and got a 'Master Auto Technician' certificate.
Went skiing and twisted the hell out of my knee. Ox got in an argument with some kid. Won the argument but lost the gunfight afterward. Steve went to C.C. and took fun courses.
A couple more years and I was in a fancier shop fixing fancier cars for a fancier check.
Repeated a couple years later. Now, when the Benz that hauled the boss' wife and kids had brake problems, Doc was the one that fixed it. Tool cabinets packed full, I could save some $$. Some of my buddies had spendy coke habits but I was thinking about a new 4X4. Real nice job, wish I could have kept it, Thanks for everything Jon!
Inherited a few bucks and a house in a small town. City life was grating on me so I quit my $18hr job and moved in.
Found that with decreased need came decreased ambition. Spent my $ and then looked for a job.
Found the job at a Chevy dealer that sold 95% pickups.. where the dead pickups all had cow stuff on the underside.. and the other tech had a girlfriend.. who just happened to be the Service Manager. Guess who worked on undersides. At least the parts guy knew his job.
Took the G.E.D.. 76% in the writing part and 95-100% on the rest.
City schmucks were polluting my little town with their city b.s. and it wasn't little anymore. Steve was stuck in a dead end job that was eating him up. Pshrinks prescribed meds in veternary quantities(gee mister.. is your elephant depressed?) but they didn't work after a while. A 9mm relieved the stress permanently.
Got a job at a (failing) transmission shop. Did the manuals that confused the owner. Learned why my previous automatics hadn't worked. Learned why his current ones didn't. Captain Comeback went under. Moved to some hell-hole in Nevada and haven't heard from him since.
My buddy the dent guy had moved to a little hick town in the middle of bfe Oregon somewhere in there, to take care of his aging parents.
Got a job at a place that did trucks and motorhomes and diesel stuff. Pointed one of those handheld infrared thermometers at the wall behind my toolbox one day and it read 142f. Found plenty of other reasons why the place always had an ad in the paper. Screw Jeff and the cactus he rode in on.
Took some more A.S.E. tests. Added an 'Advanced Level' and 'Engine Machinist - Cylinder Head' cert. to my Recertified Master Auto Tech.. Could have passed the Engine Machinist - Assembly easily and probably the Machinist - Cylinder Block as well; but I thought a Master Machinist should have actually bored a cylinder at some point.
My old buddy the dent guy called one day - the guy that ran the shop in the next little hick town needed competent help, as in desperately. I put enough stuff in storage to rent the house.
Randomly decided to try a new road on a test drive one day. It doesn't go anywhere, but, about halfway out I'm thinking a person could live out here and then the place at the end of the road has a sign on it. A big garage to pile my junk in, a house for eat sleep tv bathroom, and a shop to live in. Sell old house there buy old house here.
Damned knee started to hurt like hell one day so I told John I'd be back when it felt better. After a week or so he was wondering when I was going to pick up my tools. oh well.
Never liked pickups with cow stuff anyway.
Tired of other peoples F@#%ED UP CARS!
Tired of the people with F@#%ED UP CARS!
Tired of the grubby trucks.
Tired of the motorhomes where the grubby parts are right next to the fuzzy interior parts.
After 31 years of fixing other peoples sick neglected machinery for their pennies and curses I have just about had enough.
Catch breath..
There have been warm fuzzy moments. The gratitude of a rescued damsel-in-distress. Curing the problem that the 15 techs in 6 shops couldn't. Getting parts cheap. Being told that this guy just putts the car and it loads up so go blow it out real good and it's an R5 Turbo II..

The flat rate books all say to add time for rust and grime, but the boss never does. Bolts don't break because they are rusty but because you broke them. When the customer comes to pick the car up at 5:25 and you're still drilling out broken bolts.. Guess what? That's your fault too.

If you are like most of the guys that I knew back then, the only thing more interesting than cars and bikes was pu$$y. I don't hear anyone suggesting med school and a gyno practice to make a career of pu$$y. For the same reason you don't want to work on cars. Put enough diseased ones in your face every day and you just might lose interest in either.

My vote would be - (1)get educated - ALL THE SCHOOLING YOU CAN STAND AND THEN SOME - then keep learning (2)get a job that will pay well enough to - (3)ENJOY machinery as a HOBBY!

The Service is a valid option. The wet-nosed kid that I met a decade ago is a Staff Sergeant now - crewchief of his very own E-3 Sentry. It doesn't fly unless he says so. In another 10-12 years he can retire with a pension and benefits.. then get a cushy job with any airline. The Army may be in Iraq, but Junior's in Alaska. They pay for college too.

Somebody mentioned apprenticeship. Electricians make a fortune without getting real grimy. Dave's kid went that route a few years ago. Just got one heckuva ski boat. paid cash.

An uncle developed snapshots in a camera shop to pay for college. The engineering degree didn't mean much during a career as an electrician, but it comes in handy playing with Formula cars now that he's rich.

Pop was always fascinated by crawly seaside critters.. started college in the '50s.. and never left. Taught marine biology at C.C. for 40 years and retired with a fat pension. Buys new cars and the dealer changes the oil.

I have never gotten a job by filling an application. I get the job, then fill the app so they have paper with address and phone#.

Anyhow, it's your life.. do as you must.. just remember.. THIS IS NOT A DRESS REHEARSAL!

I think there was a lesson in there somewhere.


Epilogue..

Eric doesn't do bodywork anymore. Carpal tunnel from all the hammering and bad knees from the concrete shop floors. He has a store where he sells paint and supplies and tools and such to the local body shops. Wants me to put up a website to cover a larger area.

There's an old saying.. Those who can - do. Those who can't - teach. Those who can't teach - sell... and it goes on from there.

I'm tired of the doing. Not qualified for teaching. Maybe it's time to try selling. Maybe I'll start right now. Here goes..

Howdy folks! Thinking about a Kandy paint job? Does your local House of Kolor dealer charge 400% of list price? Does he answer your tech questions with a blank stare and 'I dunno - read the manual.'? Does he sell you a box of random stuff with an 'Oh sure, this all works' and then blame compatibility issues on you? Sound Familiar?

We're different. Yes, really.
We carry House of Kolor, including striping colors, Kandys, pearls, Kameleon, and clears; some in smaller containers for airbrushing. If you are located in Oregon east of the Cascades, then we are your friendly neighborhood Debeer Authorized Distributor.(Good stuff!) All tech questions are answered by a pro with over 30 years of body and paint experience - A.S.E. and ICAR certified. Discounts off MSRP. Free shipping on orders over $(um, I forget).

Well, did that work?
I wasn't totally kidding.
Need some paint? sandpaper? a spray booth?
Call Tinbender's in Redmond. Tell them Mark sent you.

Happy trails!

(I've changed some names to protect the guilty, others because they were too long, and left some alone)

[seaweb11]

I'm just grabbing my beach towel, but dude, you must need a beer!

Great story