Topic: Heard on the news

[kach_me]

Guess that settles what nine "other people" will be doing while I'm out riding my bike!   

Hey fellas, leave the keys in yours if you happen to be in the lucky nine.  The rest of us will be sure to keep 'em in shape and on the road. 

[ledbetter]

Global warming,Horse Crap! ,just a new way for governments to take more control of how you live your life,sorry but this crap about the needs of the many out way the needs of the one, smell very munch like Marxism,and we all know how well that worked.

Ledbetter

[DammitDan]

Actually we really don't know how Marxism worked...

We know how Lenin's warped version of Marxism worked (or didn't work) which then turned into Stalin's raped version of Marxism.  No matter how much you call a rotten fish smoked salmon, it's still gonna be a rotten fish.

Marxism when it comes down to it would be a nice system if people weren't so damn greedy and selfish.  But that's never gonna happen so Marxism will always be a pipe dream.  It's McCarthy and 60s "Red Commie" mentality that turned America against thinking for themselves.  And look where that's gotten us.  You think our government works as it stands now?  I would have to disagree...

[TwoTired]

It's McCarthy and 60s "Red Commie" mentality that turned America against thinking for themselves. 

What?  Hey, pass some of what you're smoking my way, too!  I'm about due for an "other worldly" experience.

You don't think radio and television "edutainment" and corporate marketing effect people "thinking for themselves".  Coupled with an education system that teaches Jane and Johnny that they aren't responsible for what they do?  In fact, no one is responsible for what they do.  Social environment is to blame, right?
What of a social system that wrests child disciplinary action from the parents and forces it upon teachers who are then restrained from any enforcement action?  Nah, that couldn't have anything to do with people thinking for themselves OR a cooperative social environment.

What about public school policies that ingrain "think green" into little minds at age 5.  Yeah, that's thinking for themselves!  Sorta like "commies are bad" that we heard at that age.

Jeesh, the things kids say...

[edbikerii]

communism is a freakin' joke based on jealousy and anger.  Have you ever read "The Communist Manifesto"?  It was required reading in one of my college political science classes.  Marx was an angry, jealous, lazy, hipocritical loser who lived off the capitalist wealth of his buddy Engle's wealthy father.

Here's a quote from his manifesto that demonstrates what really drove him to grind his axe against Capitalism:

"Our bourgeois, not content with having wives and daughters of their proletarians at their disposal, not to speak of common prostitutes, take the greatest pleasure in seducing each other's wives. (Ah, those were the days!) "

That's Marxism for you.  Right from the horse's mouth.

[Uncle Ernie]

No offense, but that sounds more like most of the parties I went to in the mid-'70s.

[Sam Green Racing]

No offense, but that sounds more like most of the parties I went to in the mid-'70s.

 

Sam

[Sam Green Racing]

I think Man has had an effect.  The planet used to be covered with forest, now, even the rainforests are disappearing at an alarming rate.  Major industries belching pollutants long term.  Raising animals for food.  Over-fishing the oceans.  Pouring chemicals into the ground to keep plants artificially bigger and greener. 

I really believe that the crap they feed and inject in cows has had a huge affect on cancer rates, too.  All those steroids and such are like power bars for cancer cells.   Now they find that garden hoses are full of lead to stabilize the PVC and you could be hurting your kids by letting them drink out of the hose. 

And yeah- the ice caps are melting.

I just hope I'm dead before the doody really hits the fan hard.  I figure I've got about 15 years left on me.  Maybe 20.

If I was king of the world, the first thing I'd do is make EVERYBODY get into zero population growth.  That would probably mean dealing unkindly with many religious groups.  So be it.  I believe in God- not religion.

I'm with Paul on this one

Sam.

[DammitDan]

I'm sure next you're going to tell me how we must protect marriage from the scourge of homosexuality (when 50% of marriages will already end in divorce) and blame illegal immigration for the skyrocketing unemployment rates in America (which have stayed constant at an average of 4-5% for the last several years).  And now I'm sure you'll tell me that the liberal media is destroying the way we think and feel about things, simply because they're evil and manipulative.  But the Government is trying to protect us, so they're the good guys, and the evil media are the bad guys.  For every brainwashing, there is an equal and opposite truth.

So if the government says Global Warming doesn't exist, then they must be telling the truth because they would never lie to us.  Oops!  Louis "Scooter" Libby had his sentence commuted after perjuring himself to a Grand Jury.  Bush says it was because he felt the sentence was too "harsh".  Yeah, right.  So if we can't trust the government, and we can't trust the liberal media, who can we trust?  Well, Bill O'Reilly and Michael Savage, of course!  They're not liberal OR conservative, they even say so!  But wait, they're just another brainwashing tool.

Hm, the Bush administration is preparing to strike down a higher education spending bill that would improve the odds of inner city kids going to college.  The Republicans say it would be too expensive.  But when it all boils down, it would cost the same amount as 6 weeks of Iraq war spending, and send tens or hundreds of thousands of kids to college who would never have otherwise gone.  Kids who would have been stuck in their low income neighborhoods, who may or may not ever make it out.  But wait, segregation doesn't exist in America!  The Government told me so! 

Ever been to Maplewood?  It's an inner-city highschool in Nashville, TN.  Population, 70% black, 25% white, 5% hispanic.  Percentage of school population on economic assistance, 97%.  Graduation rate, 41%.  Every other school in the system has its' graduation rate up in the high 70s to low 90s, with an economic assistance population of around 10%-30%.  The kids at Maplewood don't stand much of a chance, do they?  But of course, it's the kids' own fault for being poor.  Capitalism taught us that much at least.

This is what I mean about people thinking for themselves (or the lack of it in America today).  We're told by conservatives that Global Warming doesn't exist, when there is strong scientific evidence that tells otherwise.  Why?  Because subsidies for big business might get hurt if they admit Global Warming exists.  That's what I mean when I say McCarthyism started the ball rolling on mass market brainwashing.  If there's an idea out there that doesn't gel with the way things currently work (or with the way people currently make money), then those people will try to stop the idea at all costs.  Regardless of how novel or vitally important that idea might be.

Jeesh, the things kids say...

I guess I kinda understand where you're coming from, though; you still have to support the government that pays your social security. 

[edbikerii]

DammitDan,

I went to "inner-city" NYC public schools through high-school, and I was poor.

I then got a job (sometimes two or three jobs, even), worked for a living, earned a good salary because I worked hard and proved my worth, and paid my own tuition at CUNY for night school.  It took me ten years to graduate, but I finally did it.

Why don't you explain to me why I should pay more tax money for a bunch of lazy good-for-nothing whiners who aren't willing to work hard, like I did, for what they, and apparently you, believe they are "entitled to".

And who the hell are you to tell me how I should spend my money, by trying to raise my taxes to give it away to the good-for-nothings, so I can "educate" them so that they'll be more competitive with me and my children in the workforce?  What the hell are you people thinking?

[kach_me]

Dan, I'm guessing your a liberal...  .  Nothing to hide on my part, I'm more conservative... we definitely see things differently.  

I don't think anyone here believes that the government is lilly white; nor is the media.  Each administration has had it's share of issues.  Just for a reference, here's a listing of the past pres' pardons:

http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm

And global warming... well we all have our ideas and nothing you or I say to one another is really going to change our views on that one, right?  I personally think it's cyclical and we're just too limited in our scope.  

As for the current pres not supporting the schooling bill well, hey, I don't like paying higher taxes for no good results (read war or college or any other worthless spending bill).  I don't believe subsidized education for targeted groups is ever the answer.  There's plenty of poor white kids who live in poor white towns who will never go to college.  Same for hispanics, same for blacks, same for  Make it a needs based program without race, color, ethnicity, or gender and I'd be there for it.  

You and I did agree on one thing though (shivers)... Original thought and ideas are put down.  Obvious solutions to problems are by-passed or buried because they threaten big business (automobiles, gasoline / ethanol, medicine)... hell pick an area... there's a fix that would've saved xxx that didn't make it.  

Last thought I have is this... All our problems, and we've got a bunch, still don't make this place bad enough that folks are leaving.  People swarm to the U.S. by the hundreds of thousands annually because living here KICKS ASS compared to their respective homelands.  At our worst, our WORST, we still have a higher quality of life than most.  

Just noticed it's a helluva nice day ...I'ma goin' for a ride...

[xtalon]

Ummm.... did you all hear it snowed in Argentina?  

--xTalon

[DammitDan]

And who the hell are you to tell me how I should spend my money, by trying to raise my taxes to give it away to the good-for-nothings, so I can "educate" them so that they'll be more competitive with me and my children in the workforce?  What the hell are you people thinking?

Hmm... So by that logic, we should not have any funding for public education, period.  Make people pay for their own educations!  And if we're not going to have any public education, we might as well also get rid of public services (EMT, Police, Fire).  Make people hire their own bodyguards and carry their own water buckets.  And roads... Pfft!  Stop funding public roads and let people make their own.

See, the problem is, people say they don't want taxes.  But they still want the services afforded by taxes.  So if taxes are going to be necessary, I say we start telling the government how to spend that money.  Stop giving billions in kickbacks to private companies to help "restore Iraq" (which they only do 50% of the job with and pocket the rest) and send it into schools instead.

And by the way, that quote that I have up there...  It's the "us vs. them" mentality that is tearing this country apart as it is.  Racism does indeed still exist in America, no matter how many people try to deny it; especially in the south.  So saying they have every bit a chance to succeed as you do if they put forth the same effort as you did doesn't necessarily work.  You can't lump everyone into a convenient little group and say, "There, you see?  Those people are lazy because they can't afford to move out of their slum apartments with their minimum wage jobs."  That kind of thinking is beyond ignorance...

And by the way, the "lazy good-for-nothing whiners" line is just another one I've seen spoon fed from conservative talkshow hosts all over the place.  Still think you're not getting brainwashed?

[nickjtc]

What about the weather....?? Supposed to be 40c hereabouts today. And I rode to work. In all my gear.

[spitfire]

Nothing to do with global warming, the UK weather god heard that I was going to get my bike up and running this "summer".

Cheers

Den

[Dennis]

Hm, the Bush administration is preparing to strike down a higher education spending bill that would improve the odds of inner city kids going to college.  .....................But when it all boils down, it would cost the same amount as 6 weeks of Iraq war spending, and send tens or hundreds of thousands of kids to college who would never have otherwise gone.  ..................
Ever been to Maplewood?  It's an inner-city highschool in ............

 

I really hate to get into this but .......................


Ever been to New Jersey? You know, the place where the courts tell us how much tax money to spend on "underprivileged" school districts with no performance improvement whatsoever!
Throwing money at a problem never makes it go away. It just gives the politically connected more opportunities to piss away the taxpayers money.
Do anyone else remember how well the "open enrollment" colledge admission program from the late '60's and early '70's worked? (HINT -- IT DIDN"T!!!!)

[DammitDan]

Fine, I'll stop talking about it.

I did kinda hijack the thread 

[eldar]

Well Ed, lets look at your flawed logic shall we.

You do not feel that there should be more money spent on education, mainly so there is less competition for you and your kids and cause you are a cheap ass.

So here we go. Lets not spend more on education. This will result in less educated people. These less educated people will have much harder time finding a job. AS a DIRECT result of that these people will either A: be homeless and wandering the streets and digging through your garbage and sleeping under your trees or going to the nearest shelter which will then have to expand thus costing MORE tax dollars.  B: Will live on the system. C: get pregnant to receive even MORE assistance for LONGER costing MORE tax money AND bring probably a minimum of 3-4 kids who will also be poor to continue the Cycle.

We spend more on education, these people will be smarter and have a better time getting a job. They will then be PROVIDING more tax revenue which could lighten the burden on everyone. Less "inner city" and greater way of life for more of america which will make our country even better. Less homeless and thus less tax needed for shelters and less need for assistance.

So you can either have a lifetime of assistance which will cost exponentially more than what this bill could EVER  cost.   

The choice is pretty obvious unless of course you like the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer which is a documented fact in income trends.

If you never give people the tools, they can never improve.

[edbikerii]

Dan,

Hmm... So by that logic, we should not have any funding for public education, period.  Make people pay for their own educations!  And if we're not going to have any public education, we might as well also get rid of public services (EMT, Police, Fire).  Make people hire their own bodyguards and carry their own water buckets.  And roads... Pfft!  Stop funding public roads and let people make their own.

No Dan, that is not following my logic at all (another typical liberal logic twisting tactic).  I just finished telling you that I benefitted greatly from public education.  The reason I was able to do so was because I was willing to work hard and use resources that are already available to everyone.  No further bills or funding are required to "improve" the system.  The lazy-good-for-nothings still won't take advantage of it to benefit themselves anyway.

And why the hell are you talking about obviously necessary programs like Fire, EMT, and Police?  How could you possibly lump those vital services in together with needless programs like targeting even more funds at lazy good-for-nothings who have already demonstrated their unwillingness to work hard at getting a good education, at the expense of those who have?

Furthermore, yes, the liberal media is evil and manipulative and most importantly -- Capitalist.  Haven't you watched the evening news lately?   Had to hear from your daughter about how she wants to grow up to be a Princess like all those Disney Princesses, instead of going to medical school?  Read the seriously liberal-biased NY Times?  Can't you think for yourself when you see so many obvious lies and manipulations?  Did you read the interviews with Al Gore's journalism (why journalism, huh?) students at Columbia and what they said about him?  You'll find some interesting comments along the lines of how interesting it was to learn from someone who was so obviously trying to lie to them.  I'll bet you enjoyed his inconvenient truth movie though.  I learned a long time ago is that when someone insists that they are telling you the truth, they are probably lying.

As for global warming, there is increasingly more evidence that it is largely a natural cyclical process, which is perhaps being accelerated in a very minor way by the influence of man.  Yes, not surprisingly, man has an effect on the planet, just as every other living thing does.  We can minimize our impact, but we'll never stop the natural global warming cyclical process.  Besides, has anyone addressed the environmental impact of all the processes involved in manufacturing storage batteries for electric vehicles and replacing them every couple of years (if they are maintained properly), or the production of solar panels, or any of the other half-thought out "simple solutions" that the so-called Green people have put forth?  Just doing SOMETHING doesn't mean you're doing the RIGHT thing.

As for Social Security being paid by the government, in typical liberal fashion, you've failed to think that one through too.  Social Security is funded by the money that is withheld from the paychecks of the people who are then eligible to collect it in their retirement or disability.  If you, your spouse, or your parents haven't contributed, you're not eligible.  In addition, the amount you've contributed determines the amount you are eligible to collect.  It is not a giveaway program.  And no, I am not a recipient.

[Dennis]

Well Ed, lets look at your flawed logic shall we.

You do not feel that there should be more money spent on education, mainly so there is less competition for you and your kids and cause you are a cheap ass.

Yes, let's just throw money at the problem and it will go away!
If it doesn't go away we can throw more money at it. Why not? The taxpayers have bottomless pockets.
State of New Jersey Supreme Court logic!

I WILL HAVE NO FURTHER COMMENT ON THIS SUBJECT!!!!

[eldar]

If used wisely, it is not throwing money away.

How many kids were in your class when you were a kid? 20? maybe 25? Probably not much more than that.

These days, especially in large cities, these "poor" class schools have 40 - 50. I do not care how good a teacher you are, that is too many. That is a plain fact. You spend the money to make larger schools(lets face it, population is NOT decreasing) Get more resources including teachers and kids will then be able to do better unless they just do not want too. I think most of them want to do better but end up feeling crushed and forgotten and so end up not caring what happens.

Either way, you will throw money at o problem, either education OR supporting people their whole lives.

I know which one is cheaper and which one I would rather do and they are the same thing.

If you cant see that, then you are encouraging the problem to keep getting worse.

[edbikerii]

No Eldar, you are saying that you are willing to let the good-for-nothings blackmail you into paying more taxes to fund programs that won't turn them into stand-up-do-right citizens anyway.  Leaches will only be leaches.  All you are doing is making them feel more "entitled" to steal money away from the productive members of society.

Perhaps if we didn't destroy their work ethics by allowing them to feel "entitled" to more money-for-nothing from the government, they might actually learn to provide for themselves.

I mean really, what kind of low-life piece of #$%* would have more kids just so they could collect more welfare money?  Would that person EVER try to carry their own weight in society as long as they could keep scamming?

If you really want to break the cycle, then stop the welfare altogether.  Turn it into WORK-fare, like mayor Giuliani did in NYC.  Wow, suddenly lots of former welfare recipients discovered that they were better off working for a living like everyone else!  What a revelation!  Ever heard the expression "necessity is the mother of invention"?  Suddenly they even tried to learn stuff, and improve themselves so that they could earn more money.  How has welfare helped them for all these years?  Seems to me that welfare was a great way to PREVENT THEM FROM GETTING AHEAD.

HARD WORK is what will make the poor get richer, not half-assed throw-away education program spending that won't work anyway.  Dan's example in Maplewood, TN was of students that are already getting their high school education paid for by Maplewood tax-payers, and then they still can't be bothered to work hard enough to graduate.  Whose fault is that?  Nobody's fault but their own.

NO, I'M NOT ADVOCATING GETTING RID OF PUBLIC EDUCATION.  I NEVER HAVE.  BUT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.  THROWING MORE MONEY AT IT IS NOT THE SOLUTION.

Well Ed, lets look at your flawed logic shall we.

You do not feel that there should be more money spent on education, mainly so there is less competition for you and your kids and cause you are a cheap ass.

So here we go. Lets not spend more on education. This will result in less educated people. These less educated people will have much harder time finding a job. AS a DIRECT result of that these people will either A: be homeless and wandering the streets and digging through your garbage and sleeping under your trees or going to the nearest shelter which will then have to expand thus costing MORE tax dollars.  B: Will live on the system. C: get pregnant to receive even MORE assistance for LONGER costing MORE tax money AND bring probably a minimum of 3-4 kids who will also be poor to continue the Cycle.

We spend more on education, these people will be smarter and have a better time getting a job. They will then be PROVIDING more tax revenue which could lighten the burden on everyone. Less "inner city" and greater way of life for more of america which will make our country even better. Less homeless and thus less tax needed for shelters and less need for assistance.

So you can either have a lifetime of assistance which will cost exponentially more than what this bill could EVER  cost.   

The choice is pretty obvious unless of course you like the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer which is a documented fact in income trends.

If you never give people the tools, they can never improve.

[Uncle Ernie]

Sounds like global warming stuff depends on whose scientists you listen to.  After what's happened with "Government information sources" the last several years, forgive my cynicism if I don't believe the Government.

So, the question then becomes; global warming is happening, but is it just a cycle or is it caused by "man" ?   

Who cares?  You think people are going to stop buying water from France, clothes from China, booze from all over the place, etc?   You think people are going to ride bicycles to work 70 miles away? (or even 7 miles away?)

In the wild, animals slow reproduction to guard against adverse conditions like no food sources, draught, etc.  "man" keeps screwing with abandon but no protection without a care in the world.
With any luck, I'll be gone before the penguins and polar bears are.

[Dennis]

If used wisely, it is not throwing money away.

As I said, I will have no further comment, I do not choose to debate this subject. I DO KNOW what I have seen over the past 40 years and the same arguments are presented over and over. 

[Cvillechopper]

Sounds like global warming stuff depends on whose scientists you listen to.  After what's happened with "Government information sources" the last several years, forgive my cynicism if I don't believe the Government.

So, the question then becomes; global warming is happening, but is it just a cycle or is it caused by "man" ?   

Who cares?  You think people are going to stop buying water from France, clothes from China, booze from all over the place, etc?   You think people are going to ride bicycles to work 70 miles away? (or even 7 miles away?)

In the wild, animals slow reproduction to guard against adverse conditions like no food sources, draught, etc.  "man" keeps screwing with abandon but no protection without a care in the world.
With any luck, I'll be gone before the penguins and polar bears are.

Now that's a statement I can agree with!  Humans may have more intellect (as we define it ) than animals, but sure are much dumberer.