Topic: American Gestapo

[Chris Schneiter]

Breaking and entering is a felony! Stealing from private property is a felony!Then the Nixon boys tried to cover it up, INCLUDING Nixon Lying about it! Another felony!
Bush was the one who went to the Supreme Court to allow a recount.
Nothing ever came out of Whitewater, which was kept alive as long as it was by the Republicans.
Yes, we don't know what happened to Vince Foster. Cover up? Nobody's ever found one.
The Branch Davidians were a fringe group, survivalists and arms dealers who chose not to be investigated, and were the ones who fired the first shot.
WTC Bombed, yes, I said that, but Clinton could have locked us in a straight Jacket, destroyed our economy and dragged down our sense of security, but didn't.
Wait to see who Bush pardons on his way out.
Nixon was evil, and actually spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to put things over on the American People...We knew when he came in that Clinton liked young girls...his weakness stayed with him...and yes he lied...My God, if I was married to Hillary, I'd lie too! But, as the bumper sticker says "When Clinton Lied, No one Died".
We've gone down an endless dark path, bred of ego and greed. It doesn't have that much to do with the fight with terrorism. Al Qeda wasn't even in Iraq until we invaded. think there's no justification for that.

[eldar]

Chris, you cant bother arguing with Ed. He comes from rudy town and that makes everything he says right.It is so nice to try and point at things clinton did or things that MAY have hapened when he was pres but of course repub supporters never include any follow ups.

I pretty much agree with every word you have said Chris. Maybe someday we can get in a pres that actually gives a crap about the USA and at least tries to do the right thing instead of the Bush thing.

[firecracker]

Vote Ron Paul

[Rocking-M]

The Branch Davidians were a fringe group, survivalists and arms dealers who chose not to be investigated, and were the ones who fired the first shot.

No Sir, the account I have read and I have a friend who represented the Davidians  states that the ATF fired through the door, and their was a discrepancy as to how they offered their warrant. In fact they tried entrance without a proper offering of the warrant (as I understand it). The fact is the Davidians showed way to much restraint in their return fire. One good sniper could have killed many more ATF Goons before the siege was implemented buy the rest of the Government Goons. (Film footage clearly shows the ATF Goons sticking their heads up like ground hogs). And in the final burning, FLIR footage shows the Government Goons are clearly to blame and the cover up of this has been quite successful.

BS on the arms dealers #$%* too! They were known by the local Sherrif who in fact regularly went out to the BD's shooting range and shot with them. All the innuendo's of child molestation, arm's dealing, etc....ad naseum  were simply government manufactured lies
to fit the "government justice" imposed. It's a shame the Sherrif didn't show up with his deputies and pop a few ATF fellows too.

I tend to bristle at this analogy that they fired the first shot and were therefore deserving of what they got.

Now I think the point of your post may have been to state that Bush is way worse than Clinton.
To that I say, naw, their both equally despicable as are the parties they represent.
 

[Terry in Australia]

The Branch Davidians were a fringe group, survivalists and arms dealers who chose not to be investigated, and were the ones who fired the first shot.

But weren't they just exercising their constitutional rights? And whatever they did, (or didn't do) I don't think the end justified the means, using CS gas and white phos to barbecue religious nuts seems a bit extreme, even in the US?

But, as the bumper sticker says "When Clinton Lied, No one Died".

Well maybe not the blood of thousands of American soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's that GW is responsible for, but the Marine's and helicopter crews that were butchered in Somalia (remember "Blackhawk Down") might disagree with you mate?

Don't get me wrong, the rest of the world agrees with you that Bush is just an ignorant puppet controlled by Cheney and Wolfawitz, but in 50 years time they'll both be in hell with the rest of the ex world leaders having pineapples shoved up their ass for eternity, for their sins. Cheers, Terry.

[TwoTired]

I will continue to avoid voting Democrat as long as the Democratic platform includes gun control expansion and the eventual elimination of the second amendment.  It would be very nice if they would reduce the tax and spend ideal, too.  But, I'm more likely to tolerate that, than the former.

When Dems have control, you can expect more of this:

Demonstrates pretty well the gestapo attitude of today's law enforcement run amok.  Also, explains why the American founders were against a standing army of paid mercenaries.   I wonder if a citizen militia would beat up an old woman to take an antique revolver?  Or, even if they would go door to door to evict citizens from their government tax current domiciles?

I can't remember a presidential election where I actually voted for someone who I thought was good for the job.  In essence, I vote to keep the worst one and their regime from getting elected.

Doesn't always work, though.
 

[edbikerii]

Alright, now we're talking!  Only a fool would think that either the Democrats or the Republicans are saints.  As I've said on these forums many times before, the two-party system sucks.  I'm tired of voting for the "lesser of two evils" myself, but what's the alternative?  If you vote for anyone else you might as well wipe your ass with the ballot.

[edbikerii]

Eldar, you and Chris both need to get back on your meds.

Chris, you cant bother arguing with Ed. He comes from rudy town and that makes everything he says right.It is so nice to try and point at things clinton did or things that MAY have hapened when he was pres but of course repub supporters never include any follow ups.

I pretty much agree with every word you have said Chris. Maybe someday we can get in a pres that actually gives a crap about the USA and at least tries to do the right thing instead of the Bush thing.

[firecracker]

Alright, now we're talking!  Only a fool would think that either the Democrats or the Republicans are saints.  As I've said on these forums many times before, the two-party system sucks.  I'm tired of voting for the "lesser of two evils" myself, but what's the alternative?  If you vote for anyone else you might as well wipe your ass with the ballot.

Absolutely true.  But, if enough of us did that, it would have an effect of the NEXT election.

Suck it up, "waste" your vote in '08, and put up with Hillary or Giulianni or whoever for four years.  I shudder at the possibility of either, but short-term thinking will never change the system.


I think I'll adopt that slogan - "Waste your vote in '08"




which brings me back to Ron Paul...     

[cleveland]

The Branch Davidians were a fringe group, survivalists and arms dealers who chose not to be investigated, and were the ones who fired the first shot.

Does being a survivalist/gun group/cult justify killing them?  What about justifying the killing of their women and children?  I own a crap load of guns, camping equipment, I'm not a Christian, and I prefer that the government stays away from me.  Should me and mine be killed for that same reason?

It has been proven that those Feds shot each other, and the Branch Dividians.  If you ever saw the videos it is easy to see that they did not fire the first shot, or the 20th for that matter.  Those Feds were parked out front on the dirt.  Have you ever seem a round shot into the dirt before?  What happens?  That's right, a dust cloud where the round hits the dirt.  But there were none near a single Fed in the videos, I wonder why?  Perhaps they were relying on the fact that people tend to believe Feds/cops on the merit of their occupation alone.

They seem to think it's OK to kill people that don't conform to what they think life should look like.  How long until YOU (that is directed at anyone reading) don't fit into that picture?

[cleveland]

Oh yea, and as for Ron Paul......





he makes too much sense to win.   

[edbikerii]

On the NYC news last night they discussed Ron Paul at the Iowa Straw.  All they mentioned was that he is "Pro-life".  No mention of his stance on any other issue.

He will not win over the Democrat vote.

Oh yea, and as for Ron Paul......





he makes too much sense to win.   

[cleveland]

It WILL be Hilary in 08, but not to worry because it's for "the greater good." 

[edbikerii]

Ya know, TT, I find that truly frightening.  The worst part is that only law-abiding citizens trying to protect themselves from rioting mobs and looters became the victims of the police.

Had any of those law-abiding gun owners intended any ill-will, they could easily have "usurped" the authority of the police in just about every one of those situations.  Instead, as "good citizens" who expected the government to protect them, they inadvertently allowed the police to victimize them.  If they had stood up for their rights, they would have become criminals.

The New Orleans Police can't even tell the difference between the good guys and the bad guys.

[youtube=425,350]-taU9d26wT4[/youtube]

I will continue to avoid voting Democrat as long as the Democratic platform includes gun control expansion and the eventual elimination of the second amendment.  It would be very nice if they would reduce the tax and spend ideal, too.  But, I'm more likely to tolerate that, than the former.

When Dems have control, you can expect more of this:

Demonstrates pretty well the gestapo attitude of today's law enforcement run amok.  Also, explains why the American founders were against a standing army of paid mercenaries.   I wonder if a citizen militia would beat up an old woman to take an antique revolver?  Or, even if they would go door to door to evict citizens from their government tax current domiciles?

I can't remember a presidential election where I actually voted for someone who I thought was good for the job.  In essence, I vote to keep the worst one and their regime from getting elected.

Doesn't always work, though.
 

[eldar]

I would have to go for Paul too or Gravel. but the chance of them winning is pretty small. I doubt either the Dems or repubs want someone in that will work for the people and not the corporations. 

As for meds Ed, your Bush has butchered the health system. Only rich people can get meds now.

[cleveland]

Hey, that's not true!  I can get meds........once my $4,000 deductible is meet. 

[edbikerii]

As for meds Ed, your Bush has butchered the health system. Only rich people can get meds now.

Well then why aren't you on Medicaid?  On Medicaid, you can even get gastric bypass surgery paid for, whereas those with private insurance have to pay for it themselves.

[eldar]

because you have to live in a cardboard box to qualify

[DammitDan]

As for the NRA propaganda video submitted by TT:

All the people they talked to were people who were either (a) transporting firearms in an area controlled by martial law (more than likely the weapons were loaded as well), or (b) brandishing weapons in front of police.  I don't care if the gun is loaded or unloaded or if it's granny or a little kid.  If police see a weapon in a confrontation I have no qualms about them removing the weapon from that person by force.  The lady is 80 years old, why the hell does she have a gun in her hand when the police come into the house?

[tsp37]

Mr. Eldar, I don't think that you would be happy with Ron Paul.  A libertarian is ideologically opposed to paying for your medications from the treasury.  Chris would not be happy either.  Paul would have let Chrysler sink 30 years ago and would not not have imposed "voluntary" quotas on Japanese imports.

Now to kick a dead horse.  GWB won the popular vote (that means he got the most) in Florida and subsequently won the most votes through the electoral college.  That is the way presidents are elected in the US.  You can read all about it in the U.S. Constitution.  GWB was not the first to win the White House without the popular vote, nor will he be the last.  Did you know that the Dems STOLE the Illinois vote in 1960 and got JFK in?  Tricky Dick was encouraged to fight in the courts, he felt that a fight would do more harm to the country than good.  I'm no fan of RMN, but I do like to tweak noses.  I remember my parents voting for him because George McGovern was the alternative.

The economy is doing well.  It has weathered the WTC attack, two vicious hurricanes, a war, Republicans looting the treasury, and crude oil prices that are triple what they were 10 years ago.  GWB's contribution was to cut tax rates.  People who didn't pay income taxes still don't pay income taxes, and people who pay lots are paying at a lesser rate.  Perhaps you think they should pay at a higher rate?  Now if we could just control the spending. . .

Michigan may not be doing so well, and I will guess that is because of the ailing domestic automotive industry.  How is GWB to fault for that?  The American consumer has chosen the competition over GM, Ford, and Chrysler.  It has been happening for several years.  Nissan has a big hand in thriving Middle Tennessee, and the Saturn plant just a county away is having serious trouble.  For generations Michigan was a place to find work, and southerners migrated north.  Now the migration is from the rust belt to the sun belt.  That is life.

Valerie Plame's career is not ruined.  She hasn't lost her job.  With her looks and story, she could make a fortune outside of the CIA.  However, if her employment by the CIA was classified, it should have remained so.  That is the only issue here.  Federal law was broken, and the offender should be dealt with.  Scooter Libby is ruined, but for another crime, although GWB spared him the jail time.  Still no one has been tried for the leak.

I would continue, but my interest wanes.

[edbikerii]

Well, Sorry Dan, but could you answer just one question for me?  What the hell were the police doing in her house in the first place?

As for the NRA propaganda video submitted by TT:

All the people they talked to were people who were either (a) transporting firearms in an area controlled by martial law (more than likely the weapons were loaded as well), or (b) brandishing weapons in front of police.  I don't care if the gun is loaded or unloaded or if it's granny or a little kid.  If police see a weapon in a confrontation I have no qualms about them removing the weapon from that person by force.  The lady is 80 years old, why the hell does she have a gun in her hand when the police come into the house?

[eldar]

He may not be a supporter of health programs but he is also not a supporter or big drug companies. More than likely the drug companies would be reined in and health care would be restructured to make it cheaper. IT would be better then what we have now.

As for chrysler, I do not care if they had gone tits up. Same thing was done for harley. Maybe instead of being saved, they should have made a better product. Even now chrysler is substandard. Look at the neon, they look nice at first but quickly go to junk. After being around a dodge shop for a while, I do not care to own one ever. If a company cant make a good product, they deserve to go under and this goes for Ford and GM. You cant put out a shoddy product and then expect to be saved. You can see this happening with Microsoft daily.

[DammitDan]

Well, Sorry Dan, but could you answer just one question for me?  What the hell were the police doing in her house in the first place?

It's clear they were trying to evacuate the area and she was refusing to cooperate.  People are pretty stupid when it comes to natural disasters.  It doesn't matter how much food you have if your house is under water.  People drowned in their attics because they refused to leave the disaster area.

So then she "showed them the revolver she was holding carefully in her palm".  Yeah, when police are in my house I'm sure as hell not gonna "show them" a revolver and wave it around like she was.  And they "punched her in the face" while saying, "Relax, maam, just relax"?  Yeah, right.  It looks to me like they tackled her in the corner because she was waving a freakin gun around.  It's just one biased side of the story, just as all of the people they interviewed were heavily biased.  I'm sure if you asked the police what happened they would give you a completely different story.  And I dunno, I tend to trust the word of a police officer more than I trust the word of an 80 year old uncooperative gun nut.

NRA propaganda, my friend.  I'm sure it was even featured on the No Spin Zone at some point.

[edbikerii]

Nope:

http://www.lp.org/issues/healthcare.shtml

He may not be a supporter of health programs but he is also not a supporter or big drug companies. More than likely the drug companies would be reined in and health care would be restructured to make it cheaper. IT would be better then what we have now.

As for chrysler, I do not care if they had gone tits up. Same thing was done for harley. Maybe instead of being saved, they should have made a better product. Even now chrysler is substandard. Look at the neon, they look nice at first but quickly go to junk. After being around a dodge shop for a while, I do not care to own one ever. If a company cant make a good product, they deserve to go under and this goes for Ford and GM. You cant put out a shoddy product and then expect to be saved. You can see this happening with Microsoft daily.

[CrisPDuk]

Well, Sorry Dan, but could you answer just one question for me?  What the hell were the police doing in her house in the first place?

It's clear they were trying to evacuate the area and she was refusing to cooperate.  People are pretty stupid when it comes to natural disasters.  It doesn't matter how much food you have if your house is under water.  People drowned in their attics because they refused to leave the disaster area.

So then she "showed them the revolver she was holding carefully in her palm".  Yeah, when police are in my house I'm sure as hell not gonna "show them" a revolver and wave it around like she was.  And they "punched her in the face" while saying, "Relax, maam, just relax"?  Yeah, right.  It looks to me like they tackled her in the corner because she was waving a freakin gun around.  It's just one biased side of the story, just as all of the people they interviewed were heavily biased.  I'm sure if you asked the police what happened they would give you a completely different story.  And I dunno, I tend to trust the word of a police officer more than I trust the word of an 80 year old uncooperative gun nut.

NRA propaganda, my friend.  I'm sure it was even featured on the No Spin Zone at some point.

I take Dan's view on that to be honest, why on earth were the Police Officers in there risking their lives in the first place

They should have let the stupid old redneck fcuker drown, it's called natural selection