Topic: London Today

[douglascoolgrey]

I just got the news this morning regarding the terrorist attacks in London. F@ck the cowards responsible. Our (fat, greedy, selfish) American hearts go out to you guys. I'll drink a (preferably cold) pint for you fellows tonight.

http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050707/2005-07-07T151931Z_01_N07308400_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-BRITAIN-BLAST-DC.html

[SteveD CB500F]

Thanks mate.  We've lived through 30 years of IRA attacks, but they always gave a warning - these guys just seem to want to kill people.

Where I live (Thames Valley, 25 miles west of London), everyone knows someone who works in Central London and today has been very stressfull.

For what it's worth, the Brits don't give in to stuff like this - in fact, it has the opposite effect.

[loonymoon]

For what it's worth, the Brits don't give in to stuff like this - in fact, it has the opposite effect.

.

Yep I'd agree with that Steve. It'll hopefully have the effect of bringing people together -Britain has endured far worse (the blitz) and never gave in then. Though i hope there won't be any nastiness towards London's large muslim community- most of whom denounce this kind of action.

 I work in North London, just off Edgware Road but thankfully Edgware Road is very long and I am miles away from the Edgware Rd tube where one of the bombs went off.

 I drive to work but some people who work here have to come right across London on the Tube and have friends/relatives who work in central London so it was a worrying time. The transport is still out of course so lots of people have had to walk home or stay with people who live nearby.

[dusterdude]

ya'll hang in there and give them ragheads hell

[eldar]

Terrorists are cowards. I hope the brits dont give in to this. Maybe other countries will get the picture then. Good luck mates. Lets give these nancies a F*cking good kickin! Or something like that, you brits talk weird!

[Raul CB750K1]

When we heard the news we relived the terrible March 11 train bombings here in Madrid. The same coward attack against dangerous commuters...

I hope Tony Blair will not retreat as our character-lacking president Zapatero did by bringing the troops back from Iraq even if they were not in the battle front. That sent the wrong message: if you attack we will take our pants down. Now Zapatero wants to talk with the ETA terrorists to show how "dialogant" he is. Shame on him!!!!


I raise my glass for the people killed on 9/11, on 3/11 and today while in my mp3 sounds -seriously, what a casuality- "Have you forgotten? by Darryl Worley.


Raul

[seaweb11]

To our UK brothers......
As a Canadian, I am always saddened by these events.
I'm not a religious person, but god bless and be safe.

[Uncle Ernie]

Americans have no memory, and I'm embarrased for us all. 9/11 brought us all together and now it's politics- not as before- but worse than ever.  I hope that doesn't happen to the Brits.  By the way- should we be taking a roll-call to see if everyone is OK?
Instead of wasting lives and money doing nothing in Iraq, I wish we would just retaliate. We started as invaders and now we're just being defensive day after day. We should invade the countries that sponsor and harbour these f**ks.  We can't of course- we need their oil. This is WWIII.

[Quail "Owner of the comfortable k8"]

Who next and what's next.  Thats what the world needs to be thinking.  If they did every country would be fighting these cowards too. I read an article in Time Mag last week and it was an interview with one of them, it would have one a pulitzer prize winner if the last line read ....and then I blew his brains out.

 My hat is off to the UK, Blair has stood with the US when it would have been easy to go home.  But this is further proof it's at home too!  They kill anyone and every one they can.  I wish I could pay my taxes in shells, I would pay the postage.  They understand bulldozers and lead.   I think we should give them more of what they understand. 

London, I am sorry for your pain, the loss can't be understood unless your in the thick of it.  History will look back and ask, Why war?   What are we to do, call a summit, have a peace talk, go to the spineless U. Nations.
Peace talks go better when your the only one left standing at the table.

 Well theres a rant and to think I truly despise war.

[SteveD CB500F]

ya'll hang in there and give them ragheads hell

Ragheads.  Now there's a phrase I haven't heard since I was in Fort Bragg in the 80's !!

Raul - I didn't mention the Spanish troops as I didn't want to offend anyone on this board. Suffice it to say that Blair will not budge because of bombings.  And as far as ETA is concerned, your government will have to talk to them one day (it took us 30 years to sit down (officially) with the IRA).

[Terry in Australia]

I think that if the general public were aware of the number of attacks in London that have been foiled by security forces there since the Gulf War 2 began, everyone there would move out to the country, and live as far away from each other as possible. This one apparently slipped through the net, and considering the potential of a well organised attack on London's public transport system during a peak useage period, Londoners were extremely lucky that the death toll wasn't much higher.

I guess all those years dealing with IRA bombers has prepared the British security forces well for this style of warfare, and with possibly the best police force in the world they may well catch the perpetrators. The problem of course is that there are so many cashed up extremist groups operating independantly of each other out there, that disabling this particular group will have little effect on the overall situation. The "War on Terror" can never be won using conventional tactics against an unconventional enemy.

Unfortunately the only way to assure that this doesn't happen again is to walk away from the situation in Iraq like Spain, Korea, Italy, Holland and the Phillipines have. I'm sure that Britain won't consider this option though, so it's inevitable that there will be further attacks in Britain until the situation in the Middle East is resolved. This certainly won't happen overnight, and we're now in a situation where if we walk away the whole region will collapse into a bloody civil war, but if we stay the incidence of these types of attacks can only escalate.

The extremists know that while we're all comfortable enough with our soldiers fighting a war on foreign soil thousands of miles from home, we won't necessarily have that same resolve when our families and friends are all real targets. Comparing this situation to the Blitz is sentimental rubbish, in that war Londoners didn't have a choice, they were fighting for their own survival. In this situation Britons know that all it will take for the extremists to go away and return London to their previous level of safety, is for Mr Blair to bring his troops home. Good luck guys, keep your heads down. Cheers, Terry.

[loonymoon]

The extremists know that while we're all comfortable enough with our soldiers fighting a war on foreign soil thousands of miles from home, we won't necessarily have that same resolve when our families and friends are all real targets.

The problem is that a lot of us aren't comfortable and never wanted them fighting in Iraq in the first place, and there are many Britons who take offence at Blairs sucking up to Bush. Many people would like to have seen Blair out of government at the election this year - the trouble was a lack of a good opposition candidate.

We were aware of a lot of the foiled attacks involving ricin or explosives and many thought it would only be a matter of time before one slipped through the net as obviously and tragically, happened this time.

Unfortnately the war in Iraq has already happened and walking away from Iraq now because of the terrorism would only serve to show the terrorists that their methods work and that is a message that we should never send. We should only walk away because the majoritory of British people want it (and many beleive they do), not because we're scared of terrorist attacks. It's sad but the danger of terrorism is always present and even if you do solve one situation as there are other groups with other agendas to fulfil - no one is exempt from terrorism.

On a lighter note, things seem to be nearly back to normal here -  all of the buses and most of the tubes are now running (apart from the lines that have been destroyed of course). So as they said on the radio this morning "It's business as usual here in London".

Here's to the 2012 Olympics!

[Terry in Australia]

It was no co-incidence that this attack ocurred so soon after the announcement that London would be hosting the Olympics in 2012, the press is linking the timing of the bombings with the G8 summit of course, but I personally think that this attack was aimed at demoralising the British public who were jubilant over the announcement, and were looking forward to more celebrations that sadly were cancelled after the attacks.

I hope that by the time the games are opened this situation is resolved, but because the core reason for invading Iraq was to control Iraq's enormous oil reserves via a more "amenable" government, it's doubtfull in the extreme that things will get better before at least two elections, one in Britain, and one in the US. Cheers, Terry. 

[74cb750]

My prayers go out to all in London.

[oldbiker]

We don't need to worry about Tony B Liar backing down as he is still aiming to be president of the World and would not like to be seen as weak. Any way he thinks less about Britain than he does about almost anywhere else in the World.

[the rag]

a lot of prayers offered up in ireland for everybody affected by the bombings in london all nationalitys affected life imprsionment is too short for these f*****s

[GeoffT]

I don't think we will ever be rid of all terrorists. It's already been said that there are plenty of other extremist groups, but lets hope we can catch these murderers before they can strike again.

Spare a thought to for the emergency services who are still working well below ground in the underground tube tunnels trying to sift through evidence and recover the remaining bodies.

On a lighter note all this news well overshadowed the humorous news that the night before the bombings George W Bush crashed of a mountain bike at the G8 in Gleneagles. Unfortunately he put a police officer in the hospital in doing so.

[Bob Wessner]

One does have to wonder how you become president of the U.S. when you lack rudimentary command of your native tongue nor can you ride a bicycle.. and those are his good qualities. 

[Dennis]

Bob,
In response, unfortunately the opposition in those two elections did not exactly project a spectacular image either. As usual a presidential election gets to be a selection of the least objectionable of the undesirables. The candidates will always be that way because the only way to be nominated is to cut deals.
I'm not going to carry this any further because I don't want to get into a political debate here. That's not what we're here for.

[Bob Wessner]

I actually agree on all counts.

[jbailey]

We SHOULD handle this situation as we did in the past.  Bomb the idiots into submission.  Instead we are worried about civilian casualties and prosecuting our own soldiers for shooting people.  If this is a war against terrorism we are not treating it like one.  We cannot win a "war" by feeding candy to the enemy and those who support the enemy.

[Quail "Owner of the comfortable k8"]

One does have to wonder how you become president of the U.S. when you lack rudimentary command of your native tongue nor can you ride a bicycle.. and those are his good qualities.

Now George was briefed on the "don't talk and chew gum at the same time" but no one told him about "talking and riding bike at the same time."  I guess the best way to sum this up is "Clinton Happens"

I'm stopping here because I don't want to get into a political debate.

[Terry in Australia]

We SHOULD handle this situation as we did in the past.  Bomb the idiots into submission.  Instead we are worried about civilian casualties and prosecuting our own soldiers for shooting people.  If this is a war against terrorism we are not treating it like one.  We cannot win a "war" by feeding candy to the enemy and those who support the enemy.

The problem with that is that after all the bombing missions that the allies conducted in Iraq with the "Shock and Awe" campaign before the actual invasion, they didn't really achieve a heck of a lot. Of all the old Iraqi governments "Most Wanted" list, none were actually killed in the bombing, as I'm sure you're aware. They did however make one hell of a mess that they're still trying to clean up two years later.

Bombing the civilian populace will only increase the Iraqi peoples hatred of the allies and convince them to support the extremists. Contrary to popular belief, there are plenty of Iraqis who are not supporters of the extremists and want peace in the region, but are growing angry that with all the allies might and technology, they can't control the factional fighting that has broken out between the two main rival groups the Sunni's (Saddam's supporters) and the Shiite's. (Iraqi majority) They also quite rightly look upon the interim administration as a "puppet government", chosen by the allies for reasons of expedient oil business, and not necessarily good government.

To top all that off, the current thinking is that the extremists that attacked London, are more than likely "Home Grown", i.e., born and raised in Britain, but most likely trained by Al Queda. As many as 100,000 European Arabs have apparently attended training in Al Queda camps in recent years. As you know, the security forces always monitor a countries entry and exit points (airports, seaports etc) to see who's trying to sneak in and out, and normally, as soon as an attack has been put in, the perpertrators will try to get out ASAP before the net closes on them. If however, the attackers are well educated, long time residents with no apparent links to other extremist groups, it makes detection very difficult. If this tactic proves successfull, there will be more, guaranteed. Cheers, Terry.

[Paul]

Just back from holidays / vacation.
my sympathies to all affected.,
sometimes I look at my kids and wonder what the world will turn into for them.

[jbailey]

I'm glad we didn't have smart bombs and such smart politics during World War II or we'd be speaking either German or Japanese, that is if they decided to let our parents or grandparents live.

That is all I'm going to say on that topic since it has nothing to do with motorcycles.

My sympathy goes out to anyone around the world who has to endure terrorism brought on by narrow minded cowards of any kind.

[Quail "Owner of the comfortable k8"]

I think Terry is right.  I fear we are victims of looking a to small of a picture.  Thier in our neighbor hoods now, and how can we weed them out.  It will be a building here a bus there ,a train track or bridge.  The small strikes will mount the fear and the fear will control us if we let it.  We will pass laws like Canada has to get rid of weapons but this only to make sure the terrorist are the only ones to have weapons.  The resolve will have to come from the people that see something or know something and act on it.  Of course here in the US you will be sued and lose everything even if you are right.

[neckyzips]

ya'll hang in there and give them ragheads hell

i will second that! but i think every one no matter the country...

[oh matron]

Some of you guys are nut jobs.  Ask yourselves why these normal British Muslim men felt that they could do nothing else besides an act of violence?  The answer if I'm to be honest, is that I don't know why, but I can think of another time when a generation of ordinary people felt that there was no alternative but turn to violence.  My wifes grandfather killed unknown numbers of inocent men, women and children when he dropped tonnes of incendiary bombs on none strategic towns in Germany during WW2.  He didn't want to, he didnt't enjoy it, he hated it, he was scared by it for the rest of his life.  To me he was a hero, even though it makes me feel sick to think of the suffering caused.  To another age or culture he may be seen as a terrorist.  Everyone connected with those bombs sufferred then, as now.

When people kill with bombs I can't condone it, but nor can I ignore it and pretend that I'm being stoic or a plucky Londoner.  These people didn't kill so that their act could be ignored and forgotten, they did it to make us sit up and listen when they felt that all else had failed. It's a failure of communication and understanding, or their avoidance that's brought us to this point, again.  If the followers of radical Islam talk, we should listen, and when we talk they should listen.  I think that at least we owe that much to the London bombing victims, living or otherwise.

[Terry in Australia]

ya'll hang in there and give them ragheads hell

i will second that! but i think every one no matter the country...

Well good luck guys, there are 1.5 billion muslims in the world, and several million in the US alone. Trouble is, Islamic extremists are probably a lot less dangerous in the US, than, well, other Americans? Have a look at this article and you'll see what I mean: http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/deathis.htm Cheers, Terry.

[seaweb11]

QUAIL, you really should see a cute film called  "Bowling for Columbine  ".   

i thought your comments were a smidge frightening

[750deepsouth]

...... killed unknown numbers of inocent men, women and children when he dropped tonnes of incendiary bombs on none strategic towns in Germany during WW2.....

War is war. Without a doubt some - a very very few - are more 'just' than others. Two images stand out for me, the Vietnamese girl running down the road after being naplamed, and during the so-called 'shock and awe' in Iraq, photos of children in hospital in Bagdad with arms and legs blown off.
As a westerner I don't like the thought that the fuel I buy may have been paid for in the blood and lives of innocent children. We live in a scary world and it is only going to get worse.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

Pardon please my bleak view of human nature.

Trouble is, Islamic extremists are probably a lot less dangerous in the US, than, well, other Americans?

This article doesn't include Iraq civilians whom are dying a rate of at least 15-1 to the occupying forces.
Small item of sardonic humor I came across.

Siege Of Fallujah Voted Best Ceasefire Ever
In a response to the pentagon's recent statement that today's mammoth exchanges of hostile weapons fire did not mean that the fragile ceasefire negotiated between Iraqi insurgents and the U.S had ended, the International Protocol Evaluation Committee on All Ceasefires (IPECAC) voted the Fallujah ceasefire the "best ever."

Dr. Neb Blimbo explained that while most ceasefires were "outright dull," the ceasefire at Fallujah had been "really spiced up" by the spectacular plumes thrown up by primary and secondary explosions against the night sky.

"Ceasefires are so much more exciting when the parties are absolutely blowing the living crap out of each other," he explained.

Blimbo further explained that the siege of Fallujah still qualified as a ceasefire because the participants "cease firing every ten seconds or so when they have to reload."

Dr. Blimbo's other favorite ceasefires include the Tet Offensive, ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, and Custer's Last Stand.

[Dennis]

andynzl,
not much at all there to disagree with .....
but I still don't want to get into a political discussion here.

If anyone else does ..............?
I don't know