Author Topic: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud  (Read 7053 times)

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Offline turin39789

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Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud
« on: September 04, 2007, 07:27:46 AM »
I’m having electrical problems with my 75 cb550.  They’ve cropped up once or twice before but went away seemingly on their own. 

When I ride at night, my headlight/taillight get very dim if the engine is idling.  I usually rev the engine when I am at a stoplight and someone is coming up behind me to make sure they see me.  My electric start was working fine when I bought the bike back in june, but after I let the battery drain once or twice it doesn’t seem to be working anymore, I just hear it spinning.

Cut to Sunday night.  Because of the headlight issue, I had hooked up the battery charger before I went out of town on Saturday night.  I disconnected the charger, and we rode to the video store to pick up a movie (Hot Fuzz, it was hilarious).  When we left the store the battery on the bike was nearly dead and I could not get it to kick start, nor could I pop the clutch despite a nice slope and a good running start.  I had AAA come out, they gave me a jump (My electric start worked for this, it won’t work when the battery is plugged into the charger in the garage, but worked off their truck).  The bike died again on my way out of the parking lot when I let it idle as I shifted, so I ran the truck down, got jumped again and kept the engine revved some until I got home.  I decided that perhaps I had the charger on the wrong setting, but checked it when I got home and this was not the case.  Hooked it up again and Monday went out, disconnected it.  Neutral light is pretty bright.  Pushed the bike out of the garage, closed the garage door, and go back to find the neutral light barely lit, and the bike not having enough juice to start.

I lost my radio shack multimeter a few years ago, but I can go pick up one tonight.  I’ll need a bit of advice on what settings to use and what to look for.  I figure I either have a short somewhere that is draining the battery, or a bad battery.  What’s the method for testing the battery, and if that isn’t it, how do you start tracing down the short?  I tried shaking the rats nest and the wires under the seat, but it had no effect.

Thanks for any advice.  I’d really like to get this fixed and the bike back on the road, as while I drove my car to work today, my generator light came on, so I’m on my way to my car forums to ask for help figuring out what is up with it.  I know I could probably get a lot of this from the faq, which I am reading over now, but I'm probably going to have an hour to and hour and a half tops this evening to start sorting this or the car out and I'm hoping you'll bear with me.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 07:26:04 PM by turin39789 »

Offline my78k

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Re: Electrical hassle. Noob asking noob questions
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2007, 08:02:27 AM »
I agree that the likely cause is the battery and only because you mentioned it being drained several times. Having said that, it could certainly be a charging issue (I know the 750's actually drain the battery at idle and need to be above 2k or so before they begin charging the battery). Lots of threads on testing the charging circuit. If your battery was fully charged (and good) it should last much longer than what you described.

What I would do is grab that multi metre and get checking....I don't have the exact specs and I own a 750 so likely they would be a bit different anyways...A fully charged battery I believe should read around 13.4 volts but I am sure someone would correct me. As for the metre readings at the battery, it will only get above 13 volts above around 3000 rpms or so when charging off of the bike.

What I did to prove my battery was good (or dead in my case) was charge it up and put the metre on it...sure enough after 24 hours or so it hit the 13.4 but I could literally watch the voltage drop on my digital metre. Hence the need for a new battery...bought one and charged it fully (and slowly at a rate of 1.5 amps so you don't cook it). Put it in the bike and it fired no problem. Took the metre and watched the readings as I revved it...sure enough above 3000 rpms I was getting my 13+ volts!! Yay...no charging issues...

Oh yeah...also check that the voltage doesn't get too high when revved! It can overcharge the battery if the R/R is failing...
Dennis

Offline turin39789

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Re: Electrical hassle. Noob asking noob questions
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2007, 09:04:44 AM »
I agree that the likely cause is the battery and only because you mentioned it being drained several times. Having said that, it could certainly be a charging issue (I know the 750's actually drain the battery at idle and need to be above 2k or so before they begin charging the battery). Lots of threads on testing the charging circuit. If your battery was fully charged (and good) it should last much longer than what you described.

What I would do is grab that multi metre and get checking....I don't have the exact specs and I own a 750 so likely they would be a bit different anyways...A fully charged battery I believe should read around 13.4 volts but I am sure someone would correct me. As for the metre readings at the battery, it will only get above 13 volts above around 3000 rpms or so when charging off of the bike.

What I did to prove my battery was good (or dead in my case) was charge it up and put the metre on it...sure enough after 24 hours or so it hit the 13.4 but I could literally watch the voltage drop on my digital metre. Hence the need for a new battery...bought one and charged it fully (and slowly at a rate of 1.5 amps so you don't cook it). Put it in the bike and it fired no problem. Took the metre and watched the readings as I revved it...sure enough above 3000 rpms I was getting my 13+ volts!! Yay...no charging issues...

Oh yeah...also check that the voltage doesn't get too high when revved! It can overcharge the battery if the R/R is failing...
Dennis


Thanks!  If it comes to a new battery, can you get one at a FLAPS or do you need to order a special one online?  Is there a heated debate as to what brand and model these bikes need?

Offline my78k

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Re: Electrical hassle. Noob asking noob questions
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2007, 09:07:52 AM »
Not sure about FLAPS....I got mine at Canadian Tire for like 60$. No big debate as far as I know unless you get into gel cel versus wet cel etc....as always you can spend more and get more but it depends on what you are looking for. For me I wanted a basic battery to get it going and it has been fine...


Offline turin39789

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Re: Electrical hassle. Noob asking noob questions
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2007, 09:15:25 AM »
Not sure about FLAPS....I got mine at Canadian Tire for like 60$. No big debate as far as I know unless you get into gel cel versus wet cel etc....as always you can spend more and get more but it depends on what you are looking for. For me I wanted a basic battery to get it going and it has been fine...



Well we don't have Canadian Tire here, but I imagine it's a FLAPS (Friendly local auto parts store)  - any local place or a big chain that has the standard stock(here it's napa, aadvance, autozone, o'rielly, etc)

Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: Electrical hassle. Noob asking noob questions
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2007, 10:28:11 AM »
I'm thinking your battery is toast too, but just in case, check to make sure the fluid level is correct in each cell (assuming you have a wet cell battery)  Check also that none of the cells has an unusual color (colour).

Short of those last checks, then do as My78k suggests, pop the battery out of the bike, charge it, read the voltage, let it sit over night, check the voltage again.  If the voltage changes significantly (a volt or more), then it's off to the FLAPS!
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Offline turin39789

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Re: Electrical hassle. Noob asking noob questions
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2007, 11:55:07 AM »
I just want to be sure before I try to do a dash to the store on my way home, autozone et all should carry a battery for these bikes?  According to the main page "The CB550 models all use the same 12N12A-4A-1 battery." It links to two on amazon.   Should I be able to just take the current battery into an autozone/napa and walk back out with an acceptable new one?

Offline turin39789

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2007, 07:29:45 AM »
I called batteries plus and had a battery set aside to pick up as soon as I got off work.  Ran over there, and after the incredibly slow clerk gets around to me I get my battery.  Except it's still dry, so he goes into the back for 15 minutes to fill it up.  Finally get it and head home.  I get home and pull the battery out to hook up to the trickle charger after I let my dogs out and I have about 2 minutes before I need to leave to get to class on time.  I pull the battery out of the box and it is bulging at least an inch on all side.  The jerk at the store didn't remove the vent cap before he filled it up, I'm just glad nothing bad happened there.

I get it charged up to about 80% and install it before going to bed.  It's holding the charge, the headlights are as bright as they have ever been and I hook the charger back up to it and go to sleep. 


Cut to this morning, I'm running late for work(as usual) so I throw the side cover on the bike, lunch and books into the saddlebags and fire her up.  I decide to use the electric start since it should be working again, it takes several times, starts and dies.  I finally get it going and have to hold the throttle open a bit.  She dies, I kick start her, she dies, I electric start and she's going.  I had to give it a lot of gas to get rolling and I get on the street and the exhaust note is deeper than normal and accelleration is sh*t.  If I go home and trade her out for my old vw I'll be late for work, and I'm pushing the limit on tardies before I get fired so I go for it.  She's running bad the whole way to work with very slow acceleration.  Very occasionally she will straighten out for half a second to 10 seconds and I zip forward quickly.  She wants to idle very low so I keep some throttle at the stoplights, and seem to max out my top speed at about 60 on the highway, 55 uphill(thankfully speed limit is 55).  When she straightens up for a few seconds on the highway I zip up to 70 in a hurry.  It was fun.

I'm assuming that something I did yesterday caused this, but i just saw something that really scares me.  I got this bike back in June and it's been in fairly regular daily service despite some real quirks. I was preparing to dump some time and money into her, but school just started up, tuition was due, I just totalled my fiancees car so there goes my bike money and my car insurance just expired so thats a priorty.  It comes in waves of 50 around here. 

With the way it was bogged down and was occasionally opening up, I was thinking that something in the fuel air mix got messed up, but I'm not sure what in a battery replacement would do that.  My guess  is that I banged up or blocked off or otherwise screwed up the pod filter on the bike and it's not getting enough air.  The choke has started to feel like it is catching/scratchy when I engage disengage so maybe it stuck open?  Suggestions wanted.  I just went out to make sure that I turned the petcock off(otherwise it leaks like a sieve) and it was off.  The bottom of the carb closest to my right leg is very slow dripping drops.  While staring at this I see that the gasket on my oil fill plug is stretched out of round and warped!  I unscrewed the dipstick and pulled it out, wiped it with my fingers, screwed it back in and unless I'm a total idiot(I really think I am, but not on this occasion) It's not showing oil!

Oh sh*t oh sh*t oh sh*t oh sh*t.

I did an oil change about a month ago.  I haven't seen any oil leaking and was actually worried that I might have overfilled as it died once in a turn shortly after, but hasn't had a problem since.  I used Rotella so it came in the big jug . Replaced the filter, tightened things back down and filled up.  Am I completely screwed?  I still need to get from here to class and then to home, should I stop and get some oil on the way.  Should I see oil when I look down the dipstick hole.  Is there any chance in the world that the oils is just fresh and not black so I might not be reading it right?  Am I really not cut out for owning old mechanical things and should I sell them all for less than I paid for them and just buy a damn toyota corolla?

I really like this bike, don't let me kill it. 

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2007, 07:59:24 AM »
I expect you have multiple issues to deal with.  First priority is to get some oil in it.  How long can you live without blood?
Does your oil light come on...ever?
I ran mine low on oil once.  It was making slow down noises and it was a very hot day in traffic.  Low oil.  Topping up helped a bit and after a week or so with Honda's HP-4 10-40W without moly, it ran like it's old self.  It's got 47K miles on it now.  Oil weepy yes, but it runs well.

Second, if you don't have a fuel contamination problem, which could cause you're bike's symptoms, I'd guess the points have crusted up, gotten wet, or simply slipped their adjustment.

What is the bike's tune up history?  Are there mice nesting in your air filter?


These old bikes need service every 3000 miles, and an oil change every 1500 or 1000 miles.  They can take abuse, but not without regular servicing.  If you simply want to drive and forget, shop for that corrola.

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Offline turin39789

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2007, 08:14:47 AM »
I expect you have multiple issues to deal with.  First priority is to get some oil in it.  How long can you live without blood?
Does your oil light come on...ever?
I ran mine low on oil once.  It was making slow down noises and it was a very hot day in traffic.  Low oil.  Topping up helped a bit and after a week or so with Honda's HP-4 10-40W without moly, it ran like it's old self.  It's got 47K miles on it now.  Oil weepy yes, but it runs well.

Second, if you don't have a fuel contamination problem, which could cause you're bike's symptoms, I'd guess the points have crusted up, gotten wet, or simply slipped their adjustment.

What is the bike's tune up history?  Are there mice nesting in your air filter?


These old bikes need service every 3000 miles, and an oil change every 1500 or 1000 miles.  They can take abuse, but not without regular servicing.  If you simply want to drive and forget, shop for that corrola.

Cheers,


Before I start not quite answering your questions, I want to thank you because you always seem to be around to help TwoTired.

Quote
Does your oil light come on...ever?

Oil light comes on 99% of the time when the key is turned to on, but once the engine is on, the oil light does not come on. Oil light was not on while I was driving today.  I really hope I was just going nuts when I was outside earlier and I'll check the oil again and find it's there but I don't like the gasket being stretched. 

Quote
What is the bike's tune up history?  Are there mice nesting in your air filter?


Bought the bike in June, have probably put 1.5k+ miles on it from daily driving and a handful of longer trips.  Tackled the oil change about 600 miles ago.  The bike came with a Clymers, but this is my first bike and I'm still trying to get a handle on the routine maintenance.  I mostly don't know what all needs to be done, and when I start making a list I still need to learn how to do half the stuff.  Never had any mechanical training, I just pick it up as I go along.  I'm reasonably competent(i think) but I still have a lot to learn and don't usually have a lot of confidence in my ability when I try something new until it's done.
I think the chain is alright but that was next on my list to verify, inspect and adjust or replace.  I also need new tires.  I pulled the air filter once, no mice but it could probably use replacing.  I looked into this, can these pods be sourced at a local generic store?  I was planning on going back to the stock airbox but I haven't figured out what parts I need or where to get em, asked once or twice but don't think I got an answer because it was probably in the middle of 6 other questions.  Doesn't help that I work and go to school so I'm away from the house for 11 hours a day and work just gave us some mandatory OT for the next 2 months, but I'd like to find a weekend day where I have a checklist to work through on the bike. 


Quote
Second, if you don't have a fuel contamination problem, which could cause you're bike's symptoms, I'd guess the points have crusted up, gotten wet, or simply slipped their adjustment.

Would these fit into a sudden onset of craptastic running?  It's been in regular service.  Last friday I parked it for the day with the charger on it, drove it briefly late sunday night and the battery died for good but otherwise it was running fine.  The reason I suspect the air filter is because it's right next to the battery and that's the only thing that should have changed.  I've been meaning to verify, inspect and adjust the points etc, but taking the tank off seems like a project to me and I haven't had a weekend in town to mess with it for almost a month now.  I thought this weekend would work but now I have to go buy a new car for the lady.  Sorry, I'm venting off topic right now.

The carbs have been leaky since I got it, I'm thinking gaskets and new floats are in order, but I had bad luck on my car's last car rebuild so I'm worried about tearing into them, and I'd like to do one big tune up parts order from an internet site and haven't been able to come up with a complete list.  It's been running well enough despite the leaks though. 

Right now my plan is to remove the battery and air filter in the parking lot before I leave work and see if I can spot anything obvious, then I need to ride the mile to campus for class, the closest place to get oil is farther than school.  Once class is over I'll ride home, again it's as close/closer than a auto store to top off with what oil I have.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 08:17:20 AM by turin39789 »

Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2007, 08:21:41 AM »
No, I don't think you are screwed. 

Yes, you need to get some oil ASAP.  Any good grade of 10W30 dino will get you on your way.  Measure the oil with the dipstic set in the hole, not screwed down (but that's a fine point).  Even fresh, clean oil will shimmer in the light.  Change to your favorite flavor SOON!

It does sound like fuel starvation.  What do your plugs look like?  Ideally, the insulator should be slightly tan.  White means lean, black means rich, oil coated means... well, lets not get into that as your immediate need it to get on the road.  Leaky petcock?  Seeping carb?  Does sound like your fuel delivery systems need attention.  I don't know your exact air filter setup (you mention pods), but hopefully you can visually inspect the choke butterflies to know if they are opening correctly.

Are you cut out to be this machines mechanic?  I think so.  But it does take time, some $$, diligence, attention to detail and a peaceful mind.  It sounds like most of that is in short supply what with all that is going on in your life.  These bike run best when well maintained (Thank You, Captain Obvious!).  They don't have a computer that can make adjustments on the fly as conditions change like modern engines.  This means the intelligence resides with you, the mechanic and you, the rider.  You have to be able to read the signs and make the adjustments.  I think you are smart enough, just need to find the time to dedicate some brain cells to it.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 08:28:10 AM by OldSchool_IsCool »
Can I have a motorcycle when I get old enough?
If you take care of it.
What do you have to do?
Lot’s of things. You’ve been watching me.
Will you show me all of them?
Sure.
Is it hard?
Not if you have the right attitudes. It’s having the right attitudes that’s hard.

Offline turin39789

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2007, 09:40:32 AM »
No, I don't think you are screwed. 

Yes, you need to get some oil ASAP.  Any good grade of 10W30 dino will get you on your way.  Measure the oil with the dipstic set in the hole, not screwed down (but that's a fine point).  Even fresh, clean oil will shimmer in the light.  Change to your favorite flavor SOON!

It does sound like fuel starvation.  What do your plugs look like?  Ideally, the insulator should be slightly tan.  White means lean, black means rich, oil coated means... well, lets not get into that as your immediate need it to get on the road.  Leaky petcock?  Seeping carb?  Does sound like your fuel delivery systems need attention.  I don't know your exact air filter setup (you mention pods), but hopefully you can visually inspect the choke butterflies to know if they are opening correctly.

Are you cut out to be this machines mechanic?  I think so.  But it does take time, some $$, diligence, attention to detail and a peaceful mind.  It sounds like most of that is in short supply what with all that is going on in your life.  These bike run best when well maintained (Thank You, Captain Obvious!).  They don't have a computer that can make adjustments on the fly as conditions change like modern engines.  This means the intelligence resides with you, the mechanic and you, the rider.  You have to be able to read the signs and make the adjustments.  I think you are smart enough, just need to find the time to dedicate some brain cells to it.


Thanks. I think I was freaking out earlier due to too much caffeine and I really have 500 things going on right now, so I don't have the time to sit in the mosquito and spider infested garage and ponder the workings of the bike.  My VW has thrown me for some similar loops, and I'd like to get to the point where I can build an engine for it from scrap, tune it up in no time and rebuild the carbs like a pro, but I'm not there yet.  I have changed the engine out twice, upgraded to disc brakes, figured out how to use the timing light I bought at a yard sale to install a new dizzy, fought with broken bolts and exhausts, fixed a hung up starter, replaced hard to get to fuel lines and a hundred other small things.  I still feel like a newbie with that car, but I think me and this bike will get along.  I just need to find time to treat it right, and that means learning about it so I can go out and work on it and do oil changes in less than 3 hours.

If the bike is still running like crud for the rest of the day, I'll fiddle with it some this evenening and then I'll give up and tackle the generator light on the VW.  I really need a multimeter, but didn't have time to go to harbor freight and batteries plus yesterday between school and class and probably won't tonight.  Tommorrow I should be able to grab one, and then I'll fall back to the VW for commuting and I'll see about pulling my tank and the tops of my carbs and waiting for parts to arrive. 

Ignoring the oil problem for now if it's not what's causing the bad running(I'll top off and monitor and if it's dissappearing we can figure out where it's going later) .  What all should I check/expect to find.  Right now my only real plan for today is to check the battery and air filter installation to make sure nothing is 100% wrong in that area, but if it's not obvious I'm probably not going to spot it.  After that I'm not sure what to do other than to tap on the carbs and hope, or look around for missing hoses or block cracks that developed for no reason.  having the old battery drain and getting jumped several times shouldnt have affected anything?  I havent had any luck finding 5.5mm fuel line to replace the original like I had hoped to.  So what non-clear thick black rubber fuel line should I buy and from where? 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 09:49:41 AM by turin39789 »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2007, 10:28:46 AM »
Before I start not quite answering your questions, I want to thank you because you always seem to be around to help TwoTired.
You're welcome.
But, be warned, I've found that not everyone likes my "help".

Oil light comes on 99% of the time when the key is turned to on, but once the engine is on, the oil light does not come on. Oil light was not on while I was driving today.  I really hope I was just going nuts when I was outside earlier and I'll check the oil again and find it's there but I don't like the gasket being stretched. 

I missed the gasket stretch point.  It could be that someone used the wrong material o ring on the plug, and oil aromatics have caused it to swell.  However, if your carb overflows are plugged and the float valves are leaking when the petcock is left on, then gas could be leaking into the cylinders and past the orings to dilute the oil and cause the oring to swell.
 Does your oil smell like gas?
The rubber tubes for the carb overflows can get plugged with insect nests (mud daubers, for example), making them unable to function properly.


Bought the bike in June, have probably put 1.5k+ miles on it from daily driving and a handful of longer trips.  Tackled the oil change about 600 miles ago.  The bike came with a Clymers, but this is my first bike and I'm still trying to get a handle on the routine maintenance.  I mostly don't know what all needs to be done, and when I start making a list I still need to learn how to do half the stuff.  Never had any mechanical training, I just pick it up as I go along.  I'm reasonably competent(i think) but I still have a lot to learn and don't usually have a lot of confidence in my ability when I try something new until it's done.
I think the chain is alright but that was next on my list to verify, inspect and adjust or replace.  I also need new tires.  I pulled the air filter once, no mice but it could probably use replacing.  I looked into this, can these pods be sourced at a local generic store?  I was planning on going back to the stock airbox but I haven't figured out what parts I need or where to get em, asked once or twice but don't think I got an answer because it was probably in the middle of 6 other questions.  Doesn't help that I work and go to school so I'm away from the house for 11 hours a day and work just gave us some mandatory OT for the next 2 months, but I'd like to find a weekend day where I have a checklist to work through on the bike. 

Probably should pick up an owners manual for your bike.  If you decide to work on it, nothing beats the real Honda Shop manual.
Can't help with the pods.  Some can be cleaned and re-oiled.  I much prefer the stock arrangement, as I think it is far better for street use on a reliable daily driver.  But there are a lot of parts to find, big and small, if you want a restoration.

Quote
Second, if you don't have a fuel contamination problem, which could cause you're bike's symptoms, I'd guess the points have crusted up, gotten wet, or simply slipped their adjustment.

Would these fit into a sudden onset of craptastic running?
 

Probably, we're going to need a bit better problem description in order to help with that.  But, yes... I think.  Simple tune ups can cure a myriad of woes.

It's been in regular service.  Last friday I parked it for the day with the charger on it, drove it briefly late sunday night and the battery died for good but otherwise it was running fine.  The reason I suspect the air filter is because it's right next to the battery and that's the only thing that should have changed.  I've been meaning to verify, inspect and adjust the points etc, but taking the tank off seems like a project to me and I haven't had a weekend in town to mess with it for almost a month now.  I thought this weekend would work but now I have to go buy a new car for the lady.  Sorry, I'm venting off topic right now.


Uh, yeah, well machines are like that. They work fine until...   Then they either stop altogether or degrade in function.  Often, the bike will tell you whats wrong with it.  But, you have to learn it's language.

The carbs have been leaky since I got it, I'm thinking gaskets and new floats are in order, but I had bad luck on my car's last car rebuild so I'm worried about tearing into them, and I'd like to do one big tune up parts order from an internet site and haven't been able to come up with a complete list.  It's been running well enough despite the leaks though.

Just get rebuild gasket kits from Honda.  I don't know just how a Cb550 float can "go bad" on it's own. You can get fuel line tubing from Honda, as well.

quote author=turin39789 link=topic=25845.msg265403#msg265403 date=1189005287]
Right now my plan is to remove the battery and air filter in the parking lot before I leave work and see if I can spot anything obvious, then I need to ride the mile to campus for class, the closest place to get oil is farther than school.  Once class is over I'll ride home, again it's as close/closer than a auto store to top off with what oil I have.
[/quote]

I think you're asking for trouble operating with severely low oil.  The mechanical damage this causes can lead to power plant replacement.  Leave it, hitch a ride, come back to it later. when time permits.  Learn the lesson of checking the oil before riding off.

Here's an owner's manual excerpt:



Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline turin39789

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2007, 01:08:51 PM »
Well, I'd just like to state that you all really underestimated my capacity for idiocy and mania, despite several warnings that they are unending pools of folly.  If someone can confirm for me the correct procedure for checking engine oil, I believe I can celebrate the wonders of my small mind.  When I changed my oil, I did so on the centerstand, and filled the oil in that position.  This morning, during my frantic parking lot heart attack, the bike was resting on the kick stand.  I snuck outside once more, baffled at the ability of the bike to run on essentially no oil and not give any sign of it.  While there, it occured to me that the slight slope I was parked on might have something to do with it and then illumination came to my mind.  I sat on the bike, stood it up straight and held it with my feet while I checked the dipstick again.  Oil to the top line. 

Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2007, 01:16:44 PM »
- Yes, bike on level ground and on center stand. 
- Unscrew the filler cap/dip stick
- remove dip stick and wipe clean
- set stick into hole
- remove stick once again and read oil level
Can I have a motorcycle when I get old enough?
If you take care of it.
What do you have to do?
Lot’s of things. You’ve been watching me.
Will you show me all of them?
Sure.
Is it hard?
Not if you have the right attitudes. It’s having the right attitudes that’s hard.

Offline turin39789

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2007, 01:54:20 PM »
- Yes, bike on level ground and on center stand. 
- Unscrew the filler cap/dip stick
- remove dip stick and wipe clean
- set stick into hole
- remove stick once again and read oil level



Hooray I have oil!

I'm still going to need to get the fuel/air situation figured out.  Sorry for taking up everyones time with my misleading dipstick reading ability.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2007, 02:07:26 PM »
  Sorry for taking up everyones time with my misleading dipstick reading ability.

We'll send you a bill in the mail.... :)

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline turin39789

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2007, 04:21:38 PM »
  Sorry for taking up everyones time with my misleading dipstick reading ability.

We'll send you a bill in the mail.... :)

Cheers,

Don't go itemizing the bill yet.  The bike still rode like crap on the way home, and didn't even surge this time.  If left to idle it sits around 1k for a few seconds then dies, it has less acceleration than my 72 vw.  Opening the throttle all the way doesn't move you much if any faster than half way/3/4.   I really don't know where to go on this, I've got a rats nest of loose wiring up front that needs about a weeks worth of attention and should probably just be removed and reinstalled or replaced.  The ever present gas leak already mentioned(will leak from the petcock itself if left on, after parking notice drip from screws at bottom of bowls).  I shook the wiring around before the battery was replaced thinking there may be a short, shook the wiring under the seat too. Then I replaced the battery the next day and my electrical gremlin seemed to clear up, could anything electrical in the wiring be causing these symptoms(and is there a particular wire i need to trace down)?).  I really don't think the filter has anything to do with it, it's got a round K & N pod filter that could probably stand to be oiled but otherwise seems fine.  I only mentioned it originally because it was the closest thing to the batter that might be able to affect me.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2007, 05:28:32 PM »
Do you have enough gas in the tank?  Do you know where the reserve setting is?

You can do the points adjust and timing part of the tune up.
You'll need a feeler gauge and 12v light bulb attached some short wires and alligator clips.

At least look under the points cover to see if the points are still opening during a crankshaft revolution.  If one set of points is not working you only run on two cylinders. Not much power there.

Do you have a spark plug wrench?  Take out the spark plugs.  Post pics of the electrodes if you can't read them.

Flash touch the exhaust head pipes.  Are they the same temps? any cold ones?  If so which ones?

Do you have fuel contamination?  Drain and catch the fuel in the float bowls.  Any pieces larger than 0.016 inch will plug slow jets and block the float valves from closing.

If you find crud, check the tank for rust/crap.

Stop flailing.  Take a logical/methodical/indifferent approach.  The bike doesn't care if you need it now.  It will go when you treat it right and give it what it needs.

Right now it thinks you are treating it badly.  Convince it other wise.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline turin39789

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud and i'm scared
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2007, 07:28:00 PM »
Do you have enough gas in the tank?  Do you know where the reserve setting is?

You can do the points adjust and timing part of the tune up.
You'll need a feeler gauge and 12v light bulb attached some short wires and alligator clips.

At least look under the points cover to see if the points are still opening during a crankshaft revolution.  If one set of points is not working you only run on two cylinders. Not much power there.

Do you have a spark plug wrench?  Take out the spark plugs.  Post pics of the electrodes if you can't read them.

Flash touch the exhaust head pipes.  Are they the same temps? any cold ones?  If so which ones?

Do you have fuel contamination?  Drain and catch the fuel in the float bowls.  Any pieces larger than 0.016 inch will plug slow jets and block the float valves from closing.

If you find crud, check the tank for rust/crap.

Stop flailing.  Take a logical/methodical/indifferent approach.  The bike doesn't care if you need it now.  It will go when you treat it right and give it what it needs.

Right now it thinks you are treating it badly.  Convince it other wise.

Cheers,



Spark plugs(what size spark plug socket do I need for these babies, neither of my standards wanted to work well)

Here is the first cylinder starting from my left leg to my right(need to get the order memorized)


Shot with DMC-FZ7 at 2007-09-11



Shot with DMC-FZ7 at 2007-09-11

Here's the next one.  I had to stop here, as I wanted to eat and now at 10:30 I'm about to sit down to dinner.


Shot with DMC-FZ7 at 2007-09-11



Shot with DMC-FZ7 at 2007-09-11
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 07:30:21 PM by turin39789 »

Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2007, 08:43:32 PM »
You need this plug wrench, available at most MC shops.  The hex is 18mm but sometimes the dealer may refer to it as a 12mm, which is the thread diameter of the plug.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 08:46:49 PM by OldSchool_IsCool »
Can I have a motorcycle when I get old enough?
If you take care of it.
What do you have to do?
Lot’s of things. You’ve been watching me.
Will you show me all of them?
Sure.
Is it hard?
Not if you have the right attitudes. It’s having the right attitudes that’s hard.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2007, 10:41:49 PM »
I guess I'd have to question if 3&4 are firing at all.  Do the head pipes get hot?

I'd recommend getting hew spark plugs, regardless.  NGK D7EA would be my pick.  I was not happy with champions in my CB550s.

When was the last carb sync?

When you drain the float bowls into a clean container, is the fuel clean?  I'm guessing carb attention is in order, after the other tuneup items are addressed.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline turin39789

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2007, 03:57:42 AM »
I guess I'd have to question if 3&4 are firing at all.  Do the head pipes get hot?

I'd recommend getting hew spark plugs, regardless.  NGK D7EA would be my pick.  I was not happy with champions in my CB550s.

When was the last carb sync?

When you drain the float bowls into a clean container, is the fuel clean?  I'm guessing carb attention is in order, after the other tuneup items are addressed.

Cheers,


I didn't get to finish my last post, peppers were burning on the grill.

I started by checking the points, I need to get a socket to turn the crank, used a crescent wrench instead.  They're both opening and closing, 1/4 seemed a little tight to me so I attempted my first ever points adjustment.

Bike was hard to start up when I got it back together, but it started and I screwed in that whatchamacallit screw on the carbs to get her idling and then she was smoother than when I parked her but still no power and she wants to die if I grab a fistful of throttle.   

I meant to check the gap on the plugs but I forgot to and my keychain gapper got warped when I misused it.  I didn't drain the  float bowls(still need to look up the procedure) but the tank looks remarkably clean when peering into the fill hole.  I rode the bike up to the gas station and filled up the tank, I ran some treatment through the tank on my oil change a few weeks ago. The tank was down to about 1/4, I filled it up and no change in behavior. 

Flash touched the pipes after a run around the neighborhood.  The two outside pipes were both hot hot hot, the two inside were warm, but I could leave my hand on them for a few seconds without searing it.  I'm willing to believe they aren't firing, I just need to figure out why.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 04:02:17 AM by turin39789 »

Offline turin39789

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2007, 03:58:50 AM »
You need this plug wrench, available at most MC shops.  The hex is 18mm but sometimes the dealer may refer to it as a 12mm, which is the thread diameter of the plug.



Thanks, I ended up going in real careful with a deep well 18mm socket that I had.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Battery fixed electrical problem - Bike is running like crud
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2007, 08:57:29 AM »
You need this plug wrench, available at most MC shops.  The hex is 18mm but sometimes the dealer may refer to it as a 12mm, which is the thread diameter of the plug.

Thanks, I ended up going in real careful with a deep well 18mm socket that I had.

Be careful that you don't cross thread number three spark plug while using a straight walled socket.  Or, your current problems will seem small.

Quote
Flash touched the pipes after a run around the neighborhood.  The two outside pipes were both hot hot hot, the two inside were warm, but I could leave my hand on them for a few seconds without searing it.

This information conflicts with the spark plug pictures showing 3&4 dark.  The outside pipes are 1&4, and share a common ignition circuit. This would focus efforts down that path.  3&4 share a common fuel delivery circuit.  Provided the cylinders are sparking correctly, restorative efforts would focus on carburation/ fuel.

The Hex nut on the crankshaft is made of soft metal and has key slots behind it.  Be careful not to put too much torque on it or it will sheer off.

I still think you need to do a full tuneup.

Cheers,



Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.