Topic: stator charging problems

[weltzing]

i have a 75' cb360t and just put a different stator in it. bought it from ebay and the guy said it worked....but i still cant seem to keep a charge on the battery..some guy told me some older hondas have two stators on them but i dont know about that....any help is appreciated!!

[scottly]

i have a 75' cb360t and just put a different stator in it. bought it from ebay and the guy said it worked....but i still cant seem to keep a charge on the battery..some guy told me some older hondas have two stators on them but i dont know about that....any help is appreciated!!

Well, I have no experience with this exact model, but since you mentioned two stators......
Disconnect the headlight and taillight, and turn the key to the next position past on, then check the battery voltage with the motor running at different RPMs.

[TomC]

Hi Weltzing
     Why did you replace the Stator? Because some said it must be the stator? Did you check the old stator before you went to E-Bay? Or the new stator before putting it in?
     Have you down loaded a manual for your CB360t yet?
     OK enough of getting on your case. How to check your stators. There should be three wires that come from the stator. There colors should be pink, yellow, and white. The resistance between the pink and yellow wire should be a little more than one ohm and the resistance between the pink and white wire should be a little less than one ohm. A copy of the CB360 manual will give you more exact values. These three wires should not have any connection to the steel part of the stator. Ohm values around one ohm are hard to measure. But it can be done with a cheap digital multimeter such as Harbor Freight sells. With the multimeter set on the lowest resistance range measure the resistance with the leads connected together. Add this resistance to the resistance that you measure.
     It is likely that both of your stators are just fine. So what next. The yellow and pink wires should connect to the rectifier. Check that there is a low ohm reading there. If there is it is time to check the rectifier.
     I have not worked on a CB360t so I am not up on what changes were made from the CB350. Again get a copy of the manual.

i have a 75' cb360t and just put a different stator in it. bought it from ebay and the guy said it worked....but i still cant seem to keep a charge on the battery..some guy told me some older hondas have two stators on them but i dont know about that....any help is appreciated!!

     On the SHOC4s except for the CB650 both the stator and the field coil are stationary. So I guess you could say that there two stator coils.
     TomC in Ohio

[Alan F.]

The fine members at www.hondatwins.com or www.hondatwins.net might be able to lend a hand.

[weltzing]

thanks for all the help i appreciate it!, reason for changing the stator was it is my friends dad's old bike, and he said it  wasnt charging the battery so my buddy ordered a different stator and we put it on but with the same results lol, so my next guess would be the recitifier like was stated in your post. those new are quite exspenive tho

[scottly]

Well, I have no experience with this exact model, but since you mentioned two stators......
Disconnect the headlight and taillight, and turn the key to the next position past on, then check the battery voltage with the motor running at different RPMs.

Try this test first. Some of the old Hondas used dual coils in the stator, one that provided (hopefully) enough power for the ignition, and a second that was added when the key was switched to the headlight-on position to supply the increased power demand.

[low-side]

I believe the "two stators" thing comes from the SOHC4s having a stator on the outside of the rotor and a field coil on the inside of it to create the magnetic field to make it work.  The 360s have magnets built into the rotor so they don't utilize the field coil.  You can go to  www.electrix.com fo rsome universal but easy to follow charging system diagnostic instructions.

[kirkn]

No, the "two stators" thing (on the Honda singles and twins of the 60s & early 70s) comes from the fact that they had two separate windings within the stator assembly.  Both windings fed to the rectifier and then to the battery & loads.  However, when the headlight was switched off (back when you COULD turn the headlight off) only one of the coils fed the battery.  When the lights were switched on, the 2nd coil was joined with the first to BOTH feed the battery & loads.

For troubleshooting, my favorite technique is to clip a cheapie voltmeter to the battery, tape the meter to the tank and go for a ride!  Watch the battery voltage as you ride in the real world.  It should be showing 13+ volts at above-idle speeds as a minimum.

If it does read above 13 volts and you're still not holding a charge, then your battery just isn't holding a charge.  If it doesn't read above 13 volts, it's either a bad battery that just won't TAKE a charge, or, most likely, something in the rest of the charging circuit.

For the rest of the circuit, there are 3 major parts: the stator/rotor combo, the rectifier and the voltage regulator. 

First, I'd do an "open circuit" test of the stator/rotor combo.  Unplug the connector and, using a meter set to AC volts, run the motor and measure between the pink and yellow wires and the pink and white wires.  You must read some 'good' AC voltage.  Anywhere from 20 ~ 80 volts AC, depending on engine revs. 

If there's no AC output, you've found the problem.  If there IS AC output, then either the rectifier has a bad diode(s) or the regulator has failed.

And of course, a good strong battery at the beginning is an absolute must and cruddy connections should be the very FIRST thing to check.

Good luck with it!

Kirk

[tbpmusic]

Kirk -

There are actually 3 coils in the stator - thus 3 wires coming from the stator.

[kirkn]

Hey, Bill,

Well, the only one that I ever unwound was a 6-volt stator from an SL125.  IMO, they're the same "philosophy" though.

There are 6 posts, or poles, within the stator - 4 are wound using larger-gauge wire for the lighting and 2 are wound using smaller-gauge wire for the non-lighting.

The smaller gauge runs from yellow to pink.  The larger gauge runs from white to pink.  Pink is common to both sets of windings.

Here's my homemade diagram of that stator winding and the 'external' circuit.  I believe all Honda's permanent-magnet style alternators from those years are similar, but I can't PROVE it.  

[kirkn]

A few random pix from that science project:

Beginning:


The connections:


Unwinding:


A large-wire winding:


A small-wire winding:


Rotor magnet orientation:

[tbpmusic]

Not trying to be argumentative......

This snippet is from the 450 manual, shows the typical 12 volt setup.
Three coils, two of which are always "engaged".
The third coil was routed through the handlebar light switch, and was "engaged" once the lights were turned on - this would be the yellow wire out of the stator, pictured as the wire on the left. The white wire is the one in the middle, the pink is on the right.
In the older models (with an OFF position for the lights), we typically permanently plug in the yellow and yellow/white wires from the main harness, inside the headlight shell - the connectors are set up for a direct plug in.
This bypasses the headlight switch function and keeps all 3 coils "engaged" all the time, for maximum charging.
The yellow wire's "return" path went directly to the regulator......

6-volt models are a bit different, I believe - but Steve over at HondaTwins knows a lot more about the 6-volt models than I do......though my recently purchased C70M is about to educate me on that........

[kirkn]

yes you are, you stubborn (*&%&^*.....   


LOL 


We're on the same page mostly - the pink is common, and one of the other ones is always on and the third is on only when the light switch is on.

But you're right, I've never taken the others apart.

Kirk