Author Topic: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's  (Read 3457 times)

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Offline bill440cars

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        This is a picture of the type, not an actual one. It is a Jawa 250cc Motocross. It is a one cylinder (even though it has 2 exhaust ports and 2 exhaust systems) 250cc 2-stroke. These were pretty costly though and that compelled a number of guys in our area, to convert (or have converted) street 2 stroke bikes, like Zundapps, Maicos, etc. My Grandfather and my Dad did several conversions for their customers back then. Just thought I'd share some history, ig you all are interested.

                                      Later on, Bill :) ;) 
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 10:09:28 PM by bill440cars »
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Offline mkramer1121

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikrs I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2007, 08:43:43 PM »
Uh Bill....Are you missing something here?  ::)

Offline bill440cars

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikrs I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 10:06:36 PM »
Uh Bill....Are you missing something here?  ::)

         OOPS! ::) Sorry about that! :-[

         
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
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Offline dustyc

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2007, 10:32:59 PM »
Were the bikes originally 2 stroke street bikes converted to dirtbikes?  What was involved in the conversion?  Cool looking bike.  Reminds me of the Wards Riverside(Benelli) 250 in the shed out back.

I wish I could have had one of my Grandad's bikes when he passed away. 
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2007, 04:48:13 AM »
Were the bikes originally 2 stroke street bikes converted to dirtbikes?  What was involved in the conversion?  Cool looking bike.  Reminds me of the Wards Riverside(Benelli) 250 in the shed out back.

I wish I could have had one of my Grandad's bikes when he passed away. 

           The one I showed, is a factory built bike. The others were as you asked, "Street Bikes". They (my Grandfather & my Dad) took of the lights, exhaust, shrouding, big heavy fenders & anything else that wasn't necessary. They replaced the tires with (what we called back then) "Knobby Tires". If there was a big battery mount (or box), it was replaced with a fabricated battery mount. a plate (we called a "Skid Plate") was made and installed that would protect the crankcase from damage. Lighter fenders were added (and funny enough, to me, the front fender was mounted close to the tire to help keep the mud from building up on the tire, instead of high like bikes were done later on) A 2-stroke depends on a certain amount of back pressure from the exhaust system. My Dad would build a tuned exhaust pipe specifically for that particular bike (a pretty time consuming process that I'll explain later, if asked). Also, the gastank was usually replaced with a smaller lighter one, like a BSA Bantam gas tank or something similar. When they were through, the motor was about the main thing that was still recognizable as an original part of the bike. ;D I have no idea how many of these bike they made but I'll bet there aren't any left out there. My Dad's bikes, that I remember, were an Indian Warrior (modified, of course), then a Royal Enfield/ Indian Fire Arrow (again, heavily modified) & finally an old 250cc Jawa (Really heavily modified) I can tell about those later on, if anyone is interested. The only bike I remember that my Granfather had, was a 55' Indian Woodsman like in the brochure on the post that Steve D posted about "Indian Chiefs"

                              Later on, Bill :) ;)       

           BTW, I wish I had one of my Dad's bikes or even my Grandfather's. I did manage to get hold of an old 250 Jawa that I hope to build as close as possible to what my Dad's was like. I even have the "Factory Info Booklet" that he used when modifying the motor. That old 250cc tan like a "Scalded Dog!" The 500cc Triumph twins did not like to see (or hear) that bike coming! ;D
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 04:58:06 AM by bill440cars »
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2007, 05:25:51 AM »
Quote
A 2-stroke depends on a certain amount of back pressure from the exhaust system. My Dad would build a tuned exhaust pipe specifically for that particular bike (a pretty time consuming process that I'll explain later, if asked).


Bill, consider yourself asked. ;)
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2007, 07:31:39 PM »
Quote
A 2-stroke depends on a certain amount of back pressure from the exhaust system. My Dad would build a tuned exhaust pipe specifically for that particular bike (a pretty time consuming process that I'll explain later, if asked).


Bill, consider yourself asked. ;)

     You talked me into it. ::) Anyway, it starts like this. Dad took and made straight pipes (the same length as the original exhaust pipe/mufflers were) for that Jawa, welded a flat washer on each one and took it down the street to check it out. When he came back, he cut a 1" piece off of each one, welded a washer back on and took it down the street again. Each time he came back, he would do this and then, he came back and cut 2 of those pieces he had previously cut off, cut them in half and welded them on the end with washers on the ends. Sounds kinda crude I guess, but it worked like a charm. That 250 (which had internal modifications, that I have record of) would really run! When I returned home from the Air Force, I had plans for that one only to find out that (for reasons that I don't know) my Dad had let my Uncle Bobby take and use the Jawa. There was a fire where my uncle was and the Jawa burnt somewhere out in California. >:( I could not believe it! I had some history with that bike and that's one reason I want to try to recreate it with one I picked up on. Like I said, I've got the Jawa Factory booklet that details the mods and includes pictures along with drawings. That bike didnot run like a typical 2 stroke of that time period. No hesitation, just open the throttle and GOOOOO!!!! ;D  BTW, he also made upswept pipes (Scrambler Style) He decided how he wanted the pipe to bend, he would mark ever so often along the area that was to be bent, he then made a slender cut (like a "pie slice", or wedge cut) on each mark, then he would bent the pipe to shape, weld up all the cuts, check the pipe fit, paint it with Stovepipe Paint and call it done. BTW, all the welding was done with an Oxy/Acetelene (carbide type) welder.

                                  Later on, Bill :) ;)   

       Forgot to mention that some of those trips down the road (on a bike with straight pipes) would be cut short cause Dad had to get back to the shop before the cops caught him! ;D Somehow, he always managed to get back, get off of the bike and look SO innocent with the cops KNOWING that it was him that just made that run! On that note, sometimes a couple of guys would get into a heated discussion on whose bike was the fastest and the next thing you know, they were lined up in front of The Shop (at the cross walk), my Grandfather would stand in the front door of The Shop, drop a shop rag and the race was on! ;D There were some pretty interesting races that I remember! On occasion, a cop car would happen along as the race started and that was always interesting too! ;D Ah, Those Were The Days!

                               Later on, Bill :) ;)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 08:02:02 PM by bill440cars »
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2007, 03:32:24 AM »
Thanks for the detailed explanation Bill.
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2007, 04:09:42 AM »


            Bob, I just wish I had some pictures of those bikes, or at least of my Dad's bikes that he built for himself. ::) I do have a couple of pictures of the Jawa 50 that he did for me so many years ago and I've still got that little bike (needs rebuilt though, I kinda ran the wheels off of that one! ;D

                                      Later on, Bill :) ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline hahnda

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2007, 06:37:51 AM »
Jawa's are kinda cool.



Its kind of a rust bucket but its all there, I think?

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Offline bill440cars

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2007, 07:28:23 AM »


         Hey Kevin, Is that a 175 or 125cc CZ you have there? I remember when (for reasons unknown) the name was switched from Jawa to CZ (at least on some models) and they went from having 2 complete exhaust systems to 1 w/ that bigger muffler. I think 1960 was the year. I know that the 59s had the 2 exhaust systems and carried the Jawa name. Of course Jawa, CZ and ESO were all out of the same company. I've got a 74' CZ175, a 60s Jawa 250 and my old "Heavily Modified Jawa 50 (used to be called a "Scooterette" model 555) that I'll try to get posted.

                          Later on, Bill :) ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline hahnda

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2007, 07:57:02 AM »
Its a 175cc. It does say Jawa on the tank. Its a 1965. I even got a title with it. Motor is locked up though. Cant see why though. ;D

My plans are to bring it back into shape but probably not do a correct resto on it. Just have it as a fun little bike. 
Kevin
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2007, 08:59:41 AM »


        Hmm! Maybe, after a bit, they changed back to the Jawa name? I'll have to admit that I wasn't as close to the goings on with the other motorcycles during that time (it was my Senior year in high school, you see ;D) My thoughts were other things at time. ;D ::) Thanks for enlightening me on that detail. I do try to keep up with things like that as much as I can. ;) Lots Of Luck with your 175 Jawa build too!

                                   Later on, Bill :) ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline DarkRider

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2007, 08:07:52 AM »
I think CZ and Jawa became seperate brands after awhile again..as i have mentioned in the past the friend i got my CB from and whom im getting my GS and Mach IV from has a collection that includes both CZs and Jawas...the CZs include two enduro bikes and a motocrosser, the Jawas include 3 350s..two are TS350s and the other one is a Californian if i remember right..He also has a Bultaco trials bike along with a husqivarna enduro bike. those are just the bikes he has all in one piece...the yard is filled with many a disassembled bike...
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2007, 05:37:49 PM »

       Okay, here's a picture of my old 60's Jawa250 that I traded a 71 Suzuki TS125 (that needed quite a bit of work also) for this with a fellow I met on ebay. This is the one that I hope to make a copy of the one my Dad built for himself back in the late 50's or early 60's (can't remember exactly when and I'm sure he can't either by now) Like I've said, I also have all the Factory material that gives all the specs and shows pictures on how to modify this motor to build some serious POWER!!!! ;D I just hope I can do this without screwing something up and be able to make it run like Dad's did. When you grabbed a handful of that Jawa's throttle, you better hang on because it was like an old favorite Dodge Funny Car back in the 60's that was named "Color Me Gone!"  ;D ;D ;D  :o :o :o

           


                   Here is what it's supposed to look like.


« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 05:55:40 PM by bill440cars »
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline hahnda

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2007, 07:00:30 AM »
That's what mine should look like also, only the 175 version.

Kevin
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: An Example Of The Type Of Dirt Bikes I Grew Up Around In The Early 60's
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2007, 07:59:45 AM »
That's what mine should look like also, only the 175 version.

Kevin

          Yeah, the old street Jawas & CZs were kinda like VW's. They were dependable, not real fast (usually), not too expensive and didn't change much in looks, from year to year. ;D

                                  Later on, Bill :) ;) 
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!