Author Topic: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?  (Read 21144 times)

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fatcaaat

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CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« on: October 05, 2007, 07:14:54 pm »
Hello all.  New to this type of bike, so I don't know if my bike is running correctly or not.

1976 CB750k.  13k Original Miles.

As soon as I got it, I pulled the bowls off the carbs and cleaned out the jets.  Charged the battery, and installed a Barnett Clutch and HD springs since I would be riding with my wife on the back most of the time.

Ok...I don't know how these are supposed to pull when throttled or what, so I may just be expecting more power. 

It will rev right up to and past redline if I let it.  And in 1st gear it gets there quickly.  Second gear gets there to, but not as fast...and so on.  When in 5th and cruising along at 60-65, if I hammer the throttle, it doesn't pull to much.  If I'm in 5th and going up an incline at that speed, I cannot accelerate.

I have taken it to speeds in excess of 80mph in third but seems to lack the power I would expect in 4th and 5th.(or am I expecting too much?)  I am positive I can go 100 on it, but it may take a little to get there. 

So, is this how it is supposed to run?  Also, what RPMs should I be running as a cruising speed?  My gearing seems awefully tall as I am in the 4000's when going 60mph.   There are no misses at speed and revs pretty cleanly.  My idle is smooth but at 1200rpm or so.  I can't get it to idle any lower than that. 
« Last Edit: October 05, 2007, 07:26:10 pm by fatcaaat »

Offline mlinder

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2007, 07:29:26 pm »
I can hit the ton in a matter of seconds, but, I have heard that the later bikes are quite a bit down on power.
That said, it does sound like you possibly have an air/fuel issue, or low compression, or some other issue.
Valves? Timing? Plugs? Hows the air filter?
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Offline Klark Kent

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2007, 07:34:31 pm »
i couldn't get a decent pull out of 5th, prefering fourth for accelerating at high speed, on my 550 until i re-readjusted my valves.  one of my exhaust valves turned out to be much tighter than i had thought i left it the first time, must have lock nutted it a bit, and since then fifth seems to have a lot more pull.  i would recheck the valve clearances and see what happens as this adjustment- at least for me- was easy to botch on first attempt. 
-KK

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download the shop manual:
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listen to your spark plugs:
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fatcaaat

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2007, 07:46:19 pm »
GOod advise...

The air filter is clean as a bean.  So it isn't that.  I was under the impression that these bikes go 0-60 in about 7.5 seconds...well, that is according to the CB750 Best Ever from the discovery channel. 

If I run the piss out of it I get to speed pretty good, but I just don't know...this thing has absolutely no balls at 4-5k rpm and throttling it that speed doesn't do too much in 4th and 5th.  However, if you get it above 5k, it seems to have much more. 


Offline mattcb350f

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2007, 08:17:07 pm »
New to this type of bike... Don't look at the tach  :D
All the power in these bikes are up above the 4-5 grand mark.
Could be something wrong with the bike but what you say sounds normalish. If it's running fine with no misses or anything like that than the only suggestion besides the valve adjustment is do a carb sync and check the timing.
 Matt.
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fatcaaat

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2007, 08:40:54 pm »
I'll check/adjust the valves and see what happens.  And I'll also look into working on the carbs.  I have a set of pod filters here that I can install, but I know that will cause the need to pop in bigger pilots. 

I guess I am just not used to powerband/speed.  In 5th gear cruising at 65-70, opening the throttle up as far as I can get it it barely does anything.  Shift that puppy down into 3rd and away you go right up past 80. 

Cruises really nice on the flat 70mph in 5th but if I start going uphill I lose speed. 

Offline Gordon

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2007, 08:54:09 pm »
How many teeth on the front and rear sprockets?

Offline mrbreeze

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2007, 09:00:34 pm »
Good point Gordon. See what kind of gearing you have. The power band is indeed at higher RPM on these bikes. They don't have the kinda hp as newer bikes so you have to keep them rapped up to get any kind of acceleration going on.
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Offline Donzon

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2007, 09:05:10 pm »
Yours sounds exactly the same as mine!!  I couldn't imagine a wheelie or anything on this dog, I just figured it was normal.

Interested to read the replies/suggestions.

Don

fatcaaat

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2007, 09:07:05 pm »
When I come back from my trip, I am going to post a video running the piss out of it and then you guys can tell me if this is normal. 

Or...anyone in Northern Virginia wanna let me come over and see your bike?

Offline Klark Kent

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2007, 09:10:27 pm »
Baltimore MD. its a 550.  but youre welcome to see it  :-\
-KK

75 CB550k
76 Moto Guzzi 850T-3FB LAPD- sold
95 KLR650
www.blindpilotmovie.com

download the shop manual:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0
you'll feel better.

listen to your spark plugs:
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Offline seaweb11

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2007, 09:24:55 pm »
My 78k will certainly be ready to pass cars up a 30 degree slope from 0 to what ever without problems with another adult on the back.

Without the passenger it still bites me once in a while ;D  More power than I need on twisty country road, or the city.

If it hasn't scared you yet, somethings wrong :'(

Offline mrbreeze

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2007, 09:35:25 pm »
I think he's luggin' it!!!!!!
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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2007, 10:09:56 pm »
At 80, in 5th, I'm at maybe 1/4 throttle, if that. I have no trouble passing cars without downshifting. Thats when I was running lean. With my new jets, I've got even more top end power.
I think something is wrong with his bike, though you may want to look at this:
http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=7401.msg67248#msg67248
k6 not metioned there, but you can see the difference in power over the years.
Up to 20 less HP at the rear wheel. That's sizable.
If you read that post, you can figure out how to bring it back up.
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2007, 04:46:59 am »
I was under the impression that these bikes go 0-60 in about 7.5 seconds...well, that is according to the CB750 Best Ever from the discovery channel. 

That TV show outlined the K0, which was the most powerful of the 750's.

This is taken from the "Thoughts of HondaMan in the FAQ:

"...K0-K1: These were the "performance years". The carbs were jetted 120 mains, the spark advancers were quick-advance units (all in by 2000 RPM) and the pipes were straight-through with fiberglass-wrapped tube inserts. Gearing was 16T/45T on K0, 17T/48T on K1. Gas mileage was about 32 MPG on premium (95 octane). These bikes developed about 67 HP, peaking at 8500 RPM, putting about 61 HP "on the ground". The K0 had 4 cables on the carbs, while the K1 had the bellcrank system most folks recognize.

Late K1/Early K2: The cam changed, getting advanced about 3 degrees, but the duration was the same (so the overlap moved forward, too!). On the K2, the straight-thru pipes were changed to a 5-chamber baffled design. The spark advancer was delayed to full advance at 2500 RPM. The main jets on the K1 were 120, on the K2 110. The K2 jet needles were dropped 1 notch from the K1 settings (middle notch, K1 was 2nd from the bottom). The sprockets changed to 18T/48T. These bikes put about 58 HP on the rear wheel at 8000 RPM in 3rd gear.

Late K2: The cam moved to 5 degrees early (compared to K0) and overlap was reduced about 4 degrees, while lift stayed the same. This was, I believe, an attempt to reduce the plug-fouling habits of the early K2 (1000 miles per set, typically). The spark advancer was given 2 degrees more "spread" with the same curve as the K2 early models. The static spark setting was reduced by that 2 degrees for better idle. The mainjets dropped to 100. The pipes were like the early K2. Sprockets stayed at 18T/48T. The airbox inlets were narrowed a little for quieter (but more restrictive) operation. This model put about 45 HP on the ground at 8000 RPM in 4th gear. They felt, and ran, like they were over-geared, and lowering the ratios helped both MPG and rideability.

K3: Most K3 pipes had 7 chambers. A few early ones still had the 5-chamber models, probably leftover from K2 production. Sales had fallen off dramatically at this point. The carbs received the "lifter collar" around the needle jet to make better atomization of the fuel and better MPG, about 40 MPG. (About this time, the U.S. entered the 55 MPH era, and gas shortages were causing Congress to cry out for better MPG on anything that moved.) The 5-chamber K3 had 105 mainjets, the 7-chamber ones had 100 or 95 (I saw both). The spark advancer was unchanged from late K2. These bikes had noticeably better midrange torque, from the "lifter collars", but less HP, about 59 at the crankshaft, and about 41 at the rear wheel at 8000 RPM in 3rd gear. These would also run on regular gas (octane 89). The K3 was the first 750 that would idle well, at about 1050 RPM.

K4: Pipes were like late K3. Carbs were similar, but the mainjet holders could no longer be removed after the first 4 months of production (to prevent "tampering" with "emission controls". Huh.) The earliest K4 had K3 carbs, the later ones were like the K5 and later, a slightly different design. Midrange torque, like at 55 MPH in high gear, was improved by having about .010" less exhaust cam lift and slower spark advance (full advance at 2800-3000 RPM), but 2 degrees less total advance. (We modified a lot of these advancers for more advance.) These bikes got real good MPG, even up to 50 MPG on premium, and would run on regular (87 octane). Power peak was at 7000 RPM (many were lower, like 6500 RPM), but only about 38 HP got to the ground unless you changed something. Idle was improved and very smooth, at about 1050.

K5: The only thing I really had time to "dig in to" on these was the mileage. They got real good MPG, frequently 45-50, running on regular 85 octane gas. They peaked at about 6500 RPM with noticeably less power than my K2. But, they were REAL quiet! And, they would idle endlessly at 1100 RPM.

I don't have specific notes after the K4, because I was by then only a part-time mechanic (weekends) and was getting away from the intense detail of it all. Sorry, k5-ers & later."
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 04:50:27 am by Jonesy »
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2007, 05:31:57 am »
Quote
Gas mileage was about 32 MPG on premium (95 octane).

I must have missed that post, this is interesting. Only 32 mpg? Does the reference to 'premium' suggest this is what is supposed to be used in this model?? I average 45-47 mpg (moderate highway mostly, but some fun as well ;)) and have always used 'regular.'

Edit: The thought occurred to me, has there been a change in the method of determining octane rating over the years?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 06:21:13 am by Bob Wessner »
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fatcaaat

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2007, 06:37:39 am »
I went out and pulled my plugs...found something pretty interesting to say the least....

Plug 1, 2, 4 were really nice...and maybe...just maybe a little on the lean size.  Stock carbs, stock box, stock everything right now.  Plug 3 was a wet and sooty. Compression test tells me everything is fine in Cylinder 3.  So, it's gotta be in the carb I guess.  It was so wet and sooty that I question how well it was burning the fuel. 

So, it is possible I have been running on 3 cylinders.  My exhaust is not blowing anything out that I can see and the bike doesn't smoke a bit. 

I'll be fitting a Dyna pointless ignition, new coils, and plugs here in about 2 weeks.  I am also going to get a jet kit and put on my pod filters.  We'll see what happens after that. 

Offline Short Round

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2007, 07:13:08 am »
don't know if anyone had hit on this issue (merely read your problem) but check and see if you have a vaccume leak anywhere. 
1974 CB550

Offline mlinder

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2007, 08:39:13 am »
What pipes are on there?

According to Hondaman, a slight opening up of pipes, a slihgt modification to the advance mechanism, 17/48 gears, and jetting will get you back close to the 69 and 70 in terms of power and drivability. I'd probably go with a mild 'street race cam' if I wanted a bit more.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2007, 09:10:26 am »
I went out and pulled my plugs...found something pretty interesting to say the least....

Plug 1, 2, 4 were really nice...and maybe...just maybe a little on the lean size.  Stock carbs, stock box, stock everything right now.  Plug 3 was a wet and sooty. Compression test tells me everything is fine in Cylinder 3.  So, it's gotta be in the carb I guess.  It was so wet and sooty that I question how well it was burning the fuel. 

So, it is possible I have been running on 3 cylinders.  My exhaust is not blowing anything out that I can see and the bike doesn't smoke a bit. 

Sure seems like it.  Either there is no spark there, it is waay to rich, or the plug is simply fouled.  Change #3 plug with new or swap it with one from a working cylinder.  Does the problem follow the plug or stay with the #3?
You can also flash touch the head pipes for a temp check.  Cold(er) pipes aren't working.

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2007, 11:04:59 am »
I'm with the other guys. Get # 3 up and running, see how it runs, THEN install a 17 tooth front sprocket to go along with the rear 48 tooth. You will see a difference both times! The 17 will help with the extra load and one up.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2007, 09:09:07 pm »
Hello all.  New to this type of bike, so I don't know if my bike is running correctly or not.

1976 CB750k.  13k Original Miles.

As soon as I got it, I pulled the bowls off the carbs and cleaned out the jets.  Charged the battery, and installed a Barnett Clutch and HD springs since I would be riding with my wife on the back most of the time.

Ok...I don't know how these are supposed to pull when throttled or what, so I may just be expecting more power. 

It will rev right up to and past redline if I let it.  And in 1st gear it gets there quickly.  Second gear gets there to, but not as fast...and so on.  When in 5th and cruising along at 60-65, if I hammer the throttle, it doesn't pull to much.  If I'm in 5th and going up an incline at that speed, I cannot accelerate.

I have taken it to speeds in excess of 80mph in third but seems to lack the power I would expect in 4th and 5th.(or am I expecting too much?)  I am positive I can go 100 on it, but it may take a little to get there. 

So, is this how it is supposed to run?  Also, what RPMs should I be running as a cruising speed?  My gearing seems awefully tall as I am in the 4000's when going 60mph.   There are no misses at speed and revs pretty cleanly.  My idle is smooth but at 1200rpm or so.  I can't get it to idle any lower than that. 

Yup, sorry.
The later K models kept getting smoother and less powerful. The last of the K4s I tested were down in the 40-ish HP range, from 65-ish in the earlier days (rear wheel dyno HP).

One thing Honda did was to lean these out, for emissions reasons. Another was to raise gearing with the 18-tooth front sprocket. They also reduced cam lift a bit, and, one of the sneakiest things: they added little tiny bolts to the rocker shafts to keep them from spinning and rattling. They also added a 2-row output bearing on the final drive shaft in place of the original 1-row bearing. The spark advancers lost some of thier total advance, so that lower octane gas was no problem (the U.S. was having the gas crisis then, MPG was important). The airbox got smaller intake slots on it, too.

So, here's how to wake it up, staying with stock Honda parts:
1. Change to 17T front sprocket.
2. Spread the "ears" on the spark advancer so the upper timing reaches a little bit past the marks on your advancer (about as far past the upper mark as it is from the lower mark).
3. Raise the mainjet a 5 size.
4. In the airbox, drill 4 or 6 1/4" holes in the inner baffle of the inlet slits. This will keep the noise to a minimum while letting it breathe deeper.
5. Change the points: use good Hitachi or ND points, not the cheap Daichi ones. Change the condensors, too: they're probably very old.
6. Make sure the coils are OK. Often, the wires have burned in two inside. Pull on the spark wire: it must not come out of the coil. They are tightly molded in, but if they burn apart, will come out. A new coil is the answer.
7. Exhausts: Drill up to 4 holes, 1/2" diameter, in the last 1 or 2 baffles inside the pipes. You must remove the little 1/2" plug baffle at the end, then retap the hole and reinstall. Don't run with the end open: it's noisy and has absolutely no effect on power increase.
8. If you want to do some "inside-the-engine" mods, there's more, but these will make a noticeable difference, especially for that 4000 RPM roll-on test!

Oh- and use X24ES-U sparkplugs. Hard to find, worth the effort.

I also have a nice electronic ignition for these...  ::)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2007, 09:14:37 pm »
Quote
Gas mileage was about 32 MPG on premium (95 octane).

I must have missed that post, this is interesting. Only 32 mpg? Does the reference to 'premium' suggest this is what is supposed to be used in this model?? I average 45-47 mpg (moderate highway mostly, but some fun as well ;)) and have always used 'regular.'

Edit: The thought occurred to me, has there been a change in the method of determining octane rating over the years?

Yes. In about 1982 or so, the nation was forced to switch to "(R+M)/2" octane ratings. The "R" was research octane, a higher number. I've forgotten what "M" was, but it meant the actual "load capacity" or "burn rate" of the fuel. (I might have these 2 terms reversed now, but that was the madness behind the methods of the time). Gulf Corporation, for one, and Shell, for another, were both advertising 102 octane numbers that were really the same as Amoco's and Texaco's 98 octane. So, I imagine someone sued someone and the government got involved, but in the end, the old "95" octane became "92" and the old "90" became "87". The 100+ ones went away altogether for street gas. The bikes felt the same, regardless.   ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline mrbreeze

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2007, 10:09:02 pm »
Great info Hondaman(as usual). My 75 K as far as I know is internally butt stock. I have done alot of work on it since I bought it in 2000 and moved it from 5000 ft. to sea level. I bought it in Wyoming April 2000 with 14K miles. Here it is getting on to 8 years later and I just cracked 20K last week!!!! I would entertain your comments on newer electronic ignition and also CR carbs. I have the Dyna 2000 but still runnin stock carbs (138.5 mains-needle at 2nd from top.....almost lean). I guess I'm starting to feel a little envious after the surge of bookoo buck overhauls recently (Sean,Sparty, Gordon,Sam,etc.).My overall plan at this time is to keep this one running as much as possible and find me one to tear apart and put back. I don't care if it takes a few years to do but I want it to be powerful,clean,and of course....very carefully thought out....
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Offline 750essess

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Re: CB750...So, is this how it is supposed to run?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2007, 10:20:54 am »
138.5 mains and your lean  :o
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