Topic: Spin on oil filter

[Hotwheelbill]

I have continue to look with little success. I see the adapters that run about $100 or even more. Is there an off-the-shelf threaded pipe that will simply screw in and allow me to spend the filter on?

[drumstyx]

The oil filter case mating surface diameter on the engine case is *huge* for any oil filter you'd put on a bike. IMO you really need the reducer thing that comes with those adapter kits too.

[slikwilli420]

Randakks sells one for about 70 bucks that is nice.

[CycleRanger]

See this thread.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,86770.0.html

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I've used the Cycle Exchange one ($100) for two different bikes.  No problems.  http://www.cyclexchange.net/Oil%20System%20Comp%20Page.htm

[ChopSticks]

Well this just blew my mind, are there any other benefits to using a spin on other than convenience of more popular filters? any downsides?

Also does it work with the F models that have that extra base/piece between filter and engine?

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Well this just blew my mind, are there any other benefits to using a spin on other than convenience of more popular filters? any downsides?

Also does it work with the F models that have that extra base/piece between filter and engine?

Better quality oil filter, and easy on/off.

[drumstyx]

Well this just blew my mind, are there any other benefits to using a spin on other than convenience of more popular filters? any downsides?

Also does it work with the F models that have that extra base/piece between filter and engine?

Downsides would be technically a more delicate oil filter area -- if you're rough with it and hit some big rocks, you could lose your oil more likely than with a solid cast case.

[TwoTired]

The spin on filters have a pressure relief valve inside or bypass valve for when/if the filter is clogged, many have an anti-drainback valve as well.

These are good features in theory.  The execution, however, varies.

During construction the valves on many can be installed incorrectly, leaving the valve open or blocked.   Read a study some years ago about an independent that started cutting open filters for examination, some after use and some before use (this destroys the filter, of course). 

The problem he was having was tappet noise when first starting up his vintage car when using certain brands of filters.  What he found was that the anti drainback valve was not installed correctly, and the oiling system then drained dry when the engine was stopped, starving the engine of oil during the next start up cycle.  The lifters partially collapsed causing clatter until the oil galleries filled and held pressure.

There were some designs the made assembly errors (by the lowest paid employees) very rare if not impossible.  But the others needed a Quality assurance stage to ensure correct valve installation before final assembly.  The QA stage cost extra money for manufacture, and it was eliminated to increase profit margins.

A side discovery during the investigation, was that it wasn't just the anti-drainback valve that could function wrongly.  The other valves could as well.

A bypass valve or pressure relief valve blocked open meant the filter did nothing, no filtering as the oil bypassed the filter.  If it were glued shut, there was the possibility the filter could explode.

Many designs are shared by several brands.  They just get a different painted label.  Inside remains the same.

Notable brand found with assembly errors were Fram, STP, and many others I don't remember.

What I did remember was a brand that was made with quality and had a design very difficult to assemble wrong.  I've been using WIX filters on my cars and trucks ever since, even though they are more expensive.


Fram makes very good filter media.   I have no issues with using the Fram filter element in the SOHC4 canisters.  Which I do regularly, rather than the spin on type.
 Unfortunately FRAM uses that excellent filter media in a poor spin on design that needs a QA stage, that they won't pay for.  So you could get a good one..or a bad one.

The web site for that study was eventually taken down due to legal threat pressure from the filter companies.

I think this one is close, though very much abbreviated.  http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm

Cheers,

[Hotwheelbill]

Ordered it. Thank you

[firebane]

Good video about oil filters..

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

The spin on filters have a pressure relief valve inside or bypass valve for when/if the filter is clogged, many have an anti-drainback valve as well.

These are good features in theory.  The execution, however, varies.

During construction the valves on many can be installed incorrectly, leaving the valve open or blocked.   Read a study some years ago about an independent that started cutting open filters for examination, some after use and some before use (this destroys the filter, of course). 

The problem he was having was tappet noise when first starting up his vintage car when using certain brands of filters.  What he found was that the anti drainback valve was not installed correctly, and the oiling system then drained dry when the engine was stopped, starving the engine of oil during the next start up cycle.  The lifters partially collapsed causing clatter until the oil galleries filled and held pressure.

There were some designs the made assembly errors (by the lowest paid employees) very rare if not impossible.  But the others needed a Quality assurance stage to ensure correct valve installation before final assembly.  The QA stage cost extra money for manufacture, and it was eliminated to increase profit margins.

A side discovery during the investigation, was that it wasn't just the anti-drainback valve that could function wrongly.  The other valves could as well.

A bypass valve or pressure relief valve blocked open meant the filter did nothing, no filtering as the oil bypassed the filter.  If it were glued shut, there was the possibility the filter could explode.

Many designs are shared by several brands.  They just get a different painted label.  Inside remains the same.

Notable brand found with assembly errors were Fram, STP, and many others I don't remember.

What I did remember was a brand that was made with quality and had a design very difficult to assemble wrong.  I've been using WIX filters on my cars and trucks ever since, even though they are more expensive.


Fram makes very good filter media.   I have no issues with using the Fram filter element in the SOHC4 canisters.  Which I do regularly, rather than the spin on type.
 Unfortunately FRAM uses that excellent filter media in a poor spin on design that needs a QA stage, that they won't pay for.  So you could get a good one..or a bad one.

The web site for that study was eventually taken down due to legal threat pressure from the filter companies.

I think this one is close, though very much abbreviated.  http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm

Cheers,

Interesting info.  I'll look into other filters availability before I install a new spin on/off kit on my next project.

[martin99]

The spin on filters have a pressure relief valve inside or bypass valve for when/if the filter is clogged, many have an anti-drainback valve as well.

These are good features in theory.  The execution, however, varies.

During construction the valves on many can be installed incorrectly, leaving the valve open or blocked.   Read a study some years ago about an independent that started cutting open filters for examination, some after use and some before use (this destroys the filter, of course). 

The problem he was having was tappet noise when first starting up his vintage car when using certain brands of filters.  What he found was that the anti drainback valve was not installed correctly, and the oiling system then drained dry when the engine was stopped, starving the engine of oil during the next start up cycle.  The lifters partially collapsed causing clatter until the oil galleries filled and held pressure.

There were some designs the made assembly errors (by the lowest paid employees) very rare if not impossible.  But the others needed a Quality assurance stage to ensure correct valve installation before final assembly.  The QA stage cost extra money for manufacture, and it was eliminated to increase profit margins.

A side discovery during the investigation, was that it wasn't just the anti-drainback valve that could function wrongly.  The other valves could as well.

A bypass valve or pressure relief valve blocked open meant the filter did nothing, no filtering as the oil bypassed the filter.  If it were glued shut, there was the possibility the filter could explode.

Many designs are shared by several brands.  They just get a different painted label.  Inside remains the same.

Notable brand found with assembly errors were Fram, STP, and many others I don't remember.

What I did remember was a brand that was made with quality and had a design very difficult to assemble wrong.  I've been using WIX filters on my cars and trucks ever since, even though they are more expensive.


Fram makes very good filter media.   I have no issues with using the Fram filter element in the SOHC4 canisters.  Which I do regularly, rather than the spin on type.
 Unfortunately FRAM uses that excellent filter media in a poor spin on design that needs a QA stage, that they won't pay for.  So you could get a good one..or a bad one.

The web site for that study was eventually taken down due to legal threat pressure from the filter companies.

I think this one is close, though very much abbreviated.  http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm

Cheers,

Interesting info.  I'll look into other filters availability before I install a new spin on/off kit on my next project.

That really is very interesting stuff (my wife would tell me I need to get a life ) and much appreciated. I've always thought Fram were the dog's doodahs, and would buy them in a heartbeat regardless of being canister type or spin-on. Enlightening to know they have their QA issues too.

As a general rule, whatever part we buy for our bikes the recommendation always appears to be 'genuine oem' whatever the marque. Did Honda actually make their own filters or were they outsourced? If the latter, who made them?

[Dunk]

The spin on filters have a pressure relief valve inside or bypass valve for when/if the filter is clogged, many have an anti-drainback valve as well.

So does the factory CB750 filter, unless you replace the spring with a solid spacer. Pressure relief/bypass that is...

[TwoTired]

The spin on filters have a pressure relief valve inside or bypass valve for when/if the filter is clogged, many have an anti-drainback valve as well.

So does the factory CB750 filter, unless you replace the spring with a solid spacer. Pressure relief/bypass that is...

No. The Honda filter doesn't have valve.  The bypass/relief valve is part of the mounting bolt.  But, I don't think you have to worry much that the factory assembled that wrong.

The point was that the spin on filters have internal valves that you can't examine for assembly errors before use.  You have to cut it apart to see them, which renders the filter useless.  If you use a spin on filter that was assembled wrong, it's possible to harm the engine.

Cheers,