Author Topic: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?  (Read 2985 times)

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Offline fmctm1sw

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Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« on: October 08, 2007, 04:23:16 PM »
Took the top end of my 350F apart to try to stop an oil leak.  I got all the surfaces cleaned up real good and got the new base gasket on.  Is there any easy way to get all the pistons back in though?  I'm having a devil of a time with them...
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Dude is that a tire ? or an O-ring..??

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This is not a pod thread
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1973 CB350F
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1984 Kawasaki KLT-250 (AKA 3 wheeler of death)
1994 Honda TRX300
1999 Honda TRX250

GraveRobber

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2007, 04:34:23 PM »
Time to buy/borrow/rent/steal a ring compressor.

Offline Geeto67

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2007, 04:36:37 PM »
in a pinch screw type hose clamps can be used as makeshift ring compressors. Just make sure you work slow so as not to bend a ring.
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Offline InfraRedSVTF

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2007, 05:21:28 PM »
I just put my dads 750 back together with screwdrivers a week ago. only took 3 hours to get the pistons in. >:(
'76 Honda CB550F

Offline Gordon

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 05:38:25 PM »
Just use your fingernails.  A ring compressor will only get in the way.  The bottoms of the cylinder bores are beveled which makes it pretty easy to get the rings back in.  Do the inner two pistons first, and then the outer two.

Offline rbmgf7

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2007, 06:04:44 PM »
now this worked on my kz400 twin but dunno about a inline 4.

i was able to install the pistons into the jugs and then lower it onto the cases. i then guided the rods into the pistons and i had JUST enough clearance to slide in the wrist pins.

my guess would be to try and do what i said the the 2 and 3 cylinder and then 1 and 4.

i've seen factory engines assembled the way i mentioned, however the conrod is already connected to the pistons. the worker then guides the conrod into the cases and clamps the rod to the crank. makes install a heck of a lot faster.

ray

Offline 75750SS

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2007, 06:14:33 PM »
Ditto what Gordon said. Worked great on my 750.

Offline Patrick

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2007, 06:44:16 PM »
Whatever you do, don't try to force it. If it takes more than very light taps to move the block down, then something is wrong. If you try to move it, it doesn't slide and it seems like it's snagged, it's probably snagged on a ring. That ring will then bend or break or both.

Not that I would know. I'm a Greek god with pistons.

It's a gift.

Patrick
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 06:55:49 PM by Patrick »
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1987 VT1100 Shadow
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1969 Yamaha DT1B
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newcbguy

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2007, 06:53:36 PM »
be very careful and go ring by ring side by side, It is very easy to get carried away and break a ring. If you get frustrated go have a moon pie and come back, its cheaper than buying a new set of rings!

Offline Bodi

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2007, 07:24:56 PM »
It's really easy to do by hand, just go slow and don't use any force.
Set the ring gaps to the right positions on all four pistons, then set 2 and 3 at TDC.
Make sure your base gasket is in place (I forgot once...)
Put a piece of wood between one of the (2 or 3) piston skirts and the engine case.
Slide the barrels onto the studs, gently settling on the two pistons, working the piston tops in square. The block will slide down freely until the compression rings meet the tapered bottom opening of the cylinders. Now press a ring into its groove using tour fingertips and nails, starting opposite the gap. By gently pressing in the ring while rocking the piston a bit, the ring will compress and enter the bore. You have to work the two pistons alternately a little bit but it sounds harder than it is. Then once both compression rings are in, work on the oil control rings and finally the oil rings. Slide the bores down until the rings are all past the taper, but not really deep in there. The further in you go, the lessroom you have for working on the 1 and 4 rings.
Pull the wood block out and turn the crank slowly while making sure the cylinder block moves down the studs along with the 2-3 pistons. The 1 and 4 pistons will also be moving up, and when they meet the cylinders you just repeat the ring insertion like on 2 and 3.
I've tried the official Honda ring compressors, hose clamps, and some other small engine ring compressors: they all were more trouble to install and remove than they were worth and the whole job was faster and easier with just fingers. If you're ham-handed or really impatient with fiddly things, use compressors - you CAN snap a ring with this approach if you get too physical or frustrated.

Offline rhinoracer

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2007, 07:40:44 PM »
If the 350 is the same as the 750 it is beveled on the bottom of the cylinders which make it pretty easy to assemble, the weight of the cylinder block will do most of the work for you, just make sure to use lots of oil and assembly lube in the rings, pistons and cylinders and it will slide by itself.

Use your fingers to compress each ring, you have to do both cyinders simultaneously. When all three rings are in make sure to hold the cylinders so they don't hit the other two pistons until you line them up and repeat the procedure.
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Offline 754

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2007, 08:29:41 PM »
no screwdrivers.. if you cant get it with finger & fingernails..use a Starbux StirStick..

 the long post said it best..and alum or wooden blocks are a huge help..

 Once you done it, it just gets easier..imo..
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2007, 04:44:10 AM »
It's really easy to do by hand, just go slow and don't use any force.
Set the ring gaps to the right positions on all four pistons, then set 2 and 3 at TDC.
Make sure your base gasket is in place (I forgot once...)
Put a piece of wood between one of the (2 or 3) piston skirts and the engine case.

This is the key.....to stabilize the pistons I use OEM Suzuki parts under both 2 & 3. They are simple tools and would be very easy to make. I'd recommend getting the upper case surface level too. I hold the base gasket against the bottom of the cylinders with several rubber bands. Cut the rubber bands after all 4 pistons are set and slide down onto the upper case surface. You will not damage the base gasket this way.
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Offline clarkjh

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2007, 11:53:23 AM »
be very careful and go ring by ring side by side, It is very easy to get carried away and break a ring. If you get frustrated go have a moon pie and come back, its cheaper than buying a new set of rings!

Don't I know it, $200 for the piston kit, another $150 for new rings ::)

James
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Offline lhemrick

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2007, 09:43:10 AM »
Thanks to all for the info. It will be a great help. I was wondering how to get all four pistons back in the cylinders.

Lynn
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Superbiker_uk

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2007, 11:17:17 AM »
Quote
i was able to install the pistons into the jugs and then lower it onto the cases. i then guided the rods into the pistons and i had JUST enough clearance to slide in the wrist pins.

my guess would be to try and do what i said the the 2 and 3 cylinder and then 1 and 4.

gearbot - That's exactly how I did it and the method worked just fine for me.

Like everyone has said though - take your time. Rush it and/or force something just leads to paranoia when you start the engine up again post rebuild ;)

Offline coolcat2002

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2007, 11:50:10 AM »
Ok I used the fingernail method after the screwdriver method didn't work.

My finger nail got caught in between the piston and the cylinder and I almost yanked my fingernail out!

I used a dead blow hammer and I broke a piston ring.  *sigh*  I'm going to have to use the old piston ring.  The pistons kept shifting as I lowered it. 

I've read people do it both ways, with the cylinder studs on and with them off.   I will try gearbot's way now.

 

Offline MRieck

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2007, 12:39:57 PM »
Ok I used the fingernail method after the screwdriver method didn't work.

My finger nail got caught in between the piston and the cylinder and I almost yanked my fingernail out!

I used a dead blow hammer and I broke a piston ring.  *sigh*  I'm going to have to use the old piston ring.  The pistons kept shifting as I lowered it. 

I've read people do it both ways, with the cylinder studs on and with them off.   I will try gearbot's way now.

 
That sucks. You really should have to use only the palm of your hand to get the cylinder down. If you try that trick Bodi talked about and I use you stabilize the pistons and get rid of the rocking. A popsicle stick works well to work the rings in.
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Offline clarkjh

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2007, 03:56:01 PM »
If its the 555 kit off the net, I have three full sets of rings and one with out a top ring.

James
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Offline Patrick

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2007, 04:06:30 PM »
I've done pistons Gearbox's way with single cylinder dirt bikes, but putting the piston pin clips in with the cylinders already on the pistons is very difficult. You don't want to drop them inside the engine. I once lost a transmission to a nut that fell into the engine. If you do it that way, be very careful.

Patrick
1970 CB750 K0
1982 VF750S Sabre
1987 VT1100 Shadow
1979 Yamaha XS11
1969 Yamaha DT1B
etc.

Offline fmctm1sw

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2007, 07:22:02 PM »
Got them in there.  Thanks.  The key was getting 2/3 to TDC and no being so shy about tapping the top of the jug...
Quote from: 754
Dude is that a tire ? or an O-ring..??

Quote from: inkscars
This is not a pod thread
This is not a #$%* on my vacuum gauges thread
This is a help or GTFO thread.

1973 CB350F
1973 CB350G
1975 CB550K
1983 GL650I
1973 CB750K3 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=92888.0)
1984 Kawasaki KLT-250 (AKA 3 wheeler of death)
1994 Honda TRX300
1999 Honda TRX250

Offline MRieck

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Re: Any advice on getting pistons back in jug?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2007, 09:00:33 PM »
Got them in there.  Thanks.  The key was getting 2/3 to TDC and no being so shy about tapping the top of the jug...
The weight of the cylinder certainly helps.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"