Author Topic: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??  (Read 12210 times)

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Offline 754

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Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« on: October 21, 2007, 10:05:42 PM »
I did not see much street use the last few years and usually rode fall and into winter, not so many bikes around.


 However I did run against a VFR naked bike ..Think that is what it was). Got him good off the line, could see him gaining in my mirror in 2nd, he got me somewhere in 3rd, around the time I slowed down anyway... bet he was wondering WTF??

 Ran against a buddy with a first year Ducati Monster with a pipe and maybe a bit more. We went hrough the lower gears a few times from a rolling start  he could hang around a length on me but not really pull away. I tried revving higher to see if it made a diff, think I maybe hurt it a bit.. no tach..usually I can hear the engine/pipe but the Duc drowned it out.. He said he was backing out a bit in first to keep the front end down..

 I offered to run him off the line, figured I could smoke him but he declined.. I doubt he would have stayed beside me in first gear..
 
The thing that surprised mr is even rolling on at lower RpM we were fairly even, I know mine is torquey but figured a big twin should have me there..

 Any stories??
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2007, 11:02:14 PM »
I was out on a ride in the country on my K1 back in March, when two young guys on modern sportsbikes blasted past. Hmnnnn, I thought that I'd try to stay with them for as long as I could, or at least until my 36 year old bike started to get a bit squirrely in the curves, so I ramped it up a bit, and was surprised that I hauled them in so quickly, with still plenty left on tap.

They were definately braking much later than me and getting the power on earlier, and probably pulling cleaner lines thru some of the tighter bends,  but I was still there, right up their assses, which must have pisssed them off?

We went at at for quite a few miles, two young blokes on modern purpose built machinery, tucked in tight and swooping thru the tight stuff, and one overweight old fart on a 36 year old dinosaur with suspect brakes and everything flapping in the breeze. Man, what a rush!

Anyway, eventually I came to my senses and dropped back down to saner speeds, but it'll be a long time before I forget the day I almost smoked two talented young riders on their shiny new CBR250RR's!  ;D
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Offline toycollector10

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2007, 11:40:44 PM »
I'm one of these guys in his 50's getting back into the game after raising kids and paying off mortgages and all that stuff that makes life fulfilling and character building. 

Everywhere I look I see nubes' on overpriced, overpowered motorcycles blowing corners and generally not keeping to their side of the road.

My K0 has been tuned and prepared by an expert and I paid him to work on my behalf. I don't go into his shop and start rebuilding carburettors and I appreciate it that he doesn't come down to the Centre I work in and plug in a head-set and do my job. Now, I know, this site is about guys wrenching their own bikes but I'm not a wrencher and make no claims to be one. Don't pay me out on that issue because I don't give a sh*t.

The bottom line is I have sacraficed a lot of stuff over my 53 years in the interests of bringing up and educating my children and now it's my turn. 
(Looks around hopefully for a medal to appear, none forthcomming, never mind, just goes back to work)

I love to blow these try-hards off whenever I get the chance.

My bike is old and small looking and has a skinny little back tyre, and I ride in an upright position rather than being fully faired and kitted out like The Doctor.

But when the conditions look safe,  and I launch it, and spin my bike up to 7500 rpm (It's a little old so I show some respect) through the gears I really do want to leave those young buggers thinking.... "#$%*e, who was that old prick and what was he riding?

My reactions are slower but I think I have years and years of past experience riding and that counts. I know when to back off and I know how to back off whereas a lot of the youngsters out there just push on and the outcome can be tragic.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2008, 02:32:08 PM by toycollector10 »
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2007, 02:08:49 AM »
i really dont think it has alot to do with the bikes, but more to do with the rider, i chased a mate of mine up and down falls creek (terry knows it), me on the F1 and him on a new SV650, now he had it, or so he though, but he never got more than a  bike and half away from me, granted i spent most of my time hangin off the F1, so that things didnt get stuck into the ground (that gear shifter doesnt take well to bitumen), and eveyone knows the gawd awe full racket the brakes can make when they have the mind, so here he is every time he brakes for a corner, hearing this screech from behind, as i brake for the same corner..... his comment was...'it was like waiting for a 250kg unguided missile to get jammed up your A$$!!!!


i have about 10 years more rideing experience than him, and have done the falls creek run about a 1000 time more than him also, but it was nice to see, that with a little (ALOT) of body english, you can still stick it to the new bike boys..... this  is the same friend that was shirty that my big bore CB made more horse on the dyno, than his new SV     ;D


happy days..

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Offline CrisPDuk

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2007, 05:30:46 AM »
I've had the odd duel with my mate on his Kwak ER-6N, I've not come out on top yet though :-\
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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2007, 05:56:09 AM »
 In my 30 + years experience its the rider, not the bike, that determines who is fastest down the winding road. With upgraded suspension, good tires and a steering dampener your CB750 will hang with 90% of the road riders you will encounter if you have the riding skill to push it.


Offline azuredesign

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2007, 06:07:04 AM »
I skooted down a mile of straight road aboard my k3 between Hubbardston and Rutland MA yesterday,on what was a pretty darned beautiful day. Was hitting around 90 when Mike Rieck reeled me in on his Hayabusa from a thousand or two feet back.

The good thing is there's no shame riding these old 750's. They're just pure fun with nothing to prove. BTW, that was quite a rush watching Mike go by!!

Hope you're enjoying the fall weather as much as I am,
Ben

Offline Geeto67

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2007, 07:50:50 AM »
I chew up a lot of bikes on my K5 in the city that I have no business taking on. No matter how good the bike is it is the rider who is really fast or slow.

My favorite section for two wheeled duels is the upper level entrance to the 59th street bridge (queensboro bridge). It is a 1/8 mile straight, an ascending tight right hander with a little inside bank, and then a sharp  but wide ascending left hander before you get a straight run across the bridge. There is no sidestreet traffic to worry about, and at night the bridge is usually empty or traffic is light. The down sides is there are no shoulders, there are concrete barriers on both sides of the road, and if you hit the concrete barrier with sufficient force you could be chucked over the side and fall a good 100 feet. If someone wants to lend me an onboard camera I will make a hood hard run across the bridge and you can get a feel for what it is like, feels like a very short private race course.

I am often surprised how many sport bike riders don't know how to coax their bike thorugh a half way decent turn or pick a decent line. $1000s of dollars worth of expesive riding gear and some snot-nosed 30 year old ex-punk in a sweatshirt and jeans, wearing his lockup chain across his chest bike messenger style usually gives them the business. sad.

My favorite kill to date was a ninja 636 and a gsxr 750. Caught these two guys getting on the entrance to the 59th st bridge upper level and saw them each pick a lane and line up (rolling about 20 mph and the guy on the ninja was counting down on his fingers from 3) , at which point I figured it was on. Before they got on it I split between them in second at redline at which point the chase began. They caught and passed me by the time we got to the 1st right hander, at which point I late breaked (right up their arse) settled the rear and pitched the bike into a right and passed them both on the inside. The caught me again in the 300 feet between the right and the left and we all went into it three abreast with me on the outside. I dragged that centerstand lug hard on the concrete but I got around them with more than a few lengths to spare. The right lane had some light traffic but the left was clear and I was able to hold them back across the entire span of the bridge  (although they were right up my arse at the end of the span). At the light at the base of the bridge (manhattan side) we had a good laugh about it. They told me I scared them poop-less when I went around them throwing sparks off the centerstand lug but I came out of that turn 30mph faster than they were going and right in the heart of my rpm range which gave me just enough to hold them off. It was a fun time.

I am by no means a good rider by race track standards, and even as a street rider I am probably only a little better than most competent riders, but overall skill doesn't matter, you just haev to be better than the guy in the next lane.

My only other true sport bike kill was against a friend of mine on a 1997 cbr600f3. He was faster in a straight line but not by much because he really shifted slow, and in the turns he lacked confidence so I was able to pull around him on a twisty backroad.

My only true straight up victory happened at a bike night at a local "chopper" bike shop. This guy with a 96" stroked heritage was talking about all the cb750s he used to own and how they were "just ok". Wehn someone asked him if a harley was faster he said absolutley. I told him he was full of it and he told me to put up or shut up. The shop sat between 1/8th and 1/4  of a mile from a traffic light with no side streets in between, so we lined up at the far away light and decided the shop would be the finish line. I launched hard, rode the clutch a little longer than I would normally but the bike rode clean out of the hole, while he smoked it off the line and dropped back 3 bike lengths right away. Through 1st-3rd he was able to close the gap to a length and a half but in the upper gears I was able to hold him off and keep pulling. I never heard another thing that night about new harleys being faster than old japanese and the guy left soon afterwards.

my cafe 78F has taken a new nightster from a stop but that bike is kind of a ringer being much lighter than stock and running a cam, kerker, and k&N in the airbox and my buddy whi si 150lbs and an ex prostock rider was riding it at the time.

Other bikes I had no business tangling with but have managed to outride:
Ducati monster 750 and 900
2003 Triumph speed triple
1982 gs1100
BMW aircooled crusier (don't know the model but it was fairly new).

Although he won't admit it, I had a pretty decent run at a certain semi-well known hopped up triumph bonnie in brooklyn one night. I won't cheapen it by telling you who won or lost (hugh is a much much much better rider than I am but I think my cb750 is slightly faster - at least it has more of a top end charge).

Interestingly enough some guy on a 76 750F handed my K5 it's arse last summer on the west side highway. The guy was just a much better rider and had a better line though the very light traffic. He also got the jump on me so I was playing catch up almost the whole way (I did manage to pass him once but it was short lived). Never saw him before or again. A norton commando ate my lunch on the LI Expy also one night, but we were allready rolling at highway speeds when we started messing around.

since I bought my ducati, I find that I don't drive nearly as hard through the turns on it. Where as I could lay down and slide the K5 and then set it on fire and chalk it all up to city character, I am obsessive about not scratching my first new motorcycle.
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Offline 78 k550

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2007, 08:33:01 AM »
We went at at for quite a few miles, two young blokes on modern purpose built machinery, tucked in tight and swooping thru the tight stuff, and one overweight old fart on a 36 year old dinosaur with suspect brakes and everything flapping in the breeze. Man, what a rush!

Everything flapping in the breeze. You where naked where you? Maybe thats why they where trying to get away.

LMAO

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Offline mlinder

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2007, 09:23:13 AM »
I ride with 2 friends with 'modern' bikes, a ducati monster bored to 800 with pipes, and a bandit 1200 that has been mildly breathed on.
Both of these bikes are so much faster than mine it's pretty ridiculous to try and smoke them. They are also very good riders. The ducati rider is a racer, and the bandit rider is just damned good. I can keep up with them in the twisties, as 'safe' riding is only so fast, no matter what bike you are on, but hell, we hit a straight, and if they decide to go, well, they go, and there's not a whole lot I can do to keep up.
That ducati seems to have instant power no matter what gear he's in or speed he's going at the time, and, well, the bandit makes over 100 rwhp and some 75ish lbft of torque.
The little K0 has to work pretty damned hard to keep up with those.
Paulages and I (and some others) passed some crotch rockets on skyline/germantown, though. That happens often enough. Some sport bike riders just aren't that quick.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2007, 09:40:06 AM »

My favorite section for two wheeled duels is the upper level entrance to the 59th street bridge (queensboro bridge). It is a 1/8 mile straight, an ascending tight right hander with a little inside bank, and then a sharp  but wide ascending left hander before you get a straight run across the bridge. There is no sidestreet traffic to worry about, and at night the bridge is usually empty or traffic is light. The down sides is there are no shoulders, there are concrete barriers on both sides of the road, and if you hit the concrete barrier with sufficient force you could be chucked over the side and fall a good 100 feet. If someone wants to lend me an onboard camera I will make a hood hard run across the bridge and you can get a feel for what it is like, feels like a very short private race course.
I know the roads and places he speaks about. Gee, you have a very large pair. These are some scary places even in a car. You folks that don't live in the NY area have no idea what these places look like. My hat is off to you Gee. I hunt bad mannered Harleys up in Westchester and Putnam. 
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Offline sparty

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2007, 09:45:18 AM »
With my new engine, I am sure that I can stay with most mordern sport bikes, but I don't trust my CB in the twisties.
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Offline mlinder

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2007, 09:52:08 AM »
With my new engine, I am sure that I can stay with most mordern sport bikes, but I don't trust my CB in the twisties.

Trust your tires, sparty. Don't you have new suspension going on, too?
You will be surprised just how fast you can go in the twisties.
I used to ride one of my old r75/5's (though it had some work done to it) out at willow a long time ago. While the old bikes are a bit... flexible... they certainly let you know if you are beginning to ride over their performance envelope.
More so than new bikes. The margin between "fine" and "crashed" on new bikes is much more narrow.
The CB will let you know if you are reaching the envelope much earlier than the new bikes.
If a sport bike is riding faster than you can keep up with in heavy twisties, chances are they are not riding 'safely' anyway.
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Offline Geeto67

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2007, 10:55:41 AM »
I know the roads and places he speaks about. Gee, you have a very large pair. These are some scary places even in a car. You folks that don't live in the NY area have no idea what these places look like. My hat is off to you Gee. I hunt bad mannered Harleys up in Westchester and Putnam. 

I ride pretty much the same route everyday so it has become a lot less scary to me, but someone who only rides occasionally I can see how these can be very frighting. It isn't about being crazy or tough, it just happens to be a smooth stretch of road with no surprises like dips or potholes. I have it timed so that the centerstand touches down just after the only expansion joint mid turn (early in the left hander on the 59th st upper level bridge entrance). 6 months ago a kid on an r1 went over the side, but I had never heard about anybody doing it before then on a bike and it was noted that he was kind of stunting at the time. About 2 years ago a kid went over the side on the same bridge in his civic, and last year a guy on a ninja went over the side of the Williamsburg bridge, halfway across, at 30 mph. Stuff like this usually gets reported because it is rare that it happens.

Speaking of the williamsburg bridge...pre 9/11 (like mid to late 1990s) the bridge would be mostly empty on weeknights (like around 2 am) so my buddies and I would run our cars across it (sometimes with open headers), the best is running from the manhattan side to the BQE because there was a traffic light at the base on the manhattan side and a nice long shotdown entrance ramp for the BQE on the other. Someone would take the inside lane and someone would take the outside lane and we would just blast across. One night I am running my GTO against a friend's '69 442 on the bridge on the way into manhattan (we were going for chinese food afterward). I was just shifting into third when something scares the dookie out of me. One of the local stunt teams had decided to blast across the bridge at the same time we were using it. I was pretty close to 100 mph and these guys flew buy me, some of them on one wheel. I slowed it up to about 60mph and got passed by a guy holding a banshee quad in a wheelie at about 70mph. After that I kinda stopped racing the bridge, convinced that there are people crazier than me and they should have the right of way. Now with 9/11 the bridges are so heavily watched you can't really get away with stuff like that.

every year there is an impromptu time trial that some of the vintage bike guys run. It is called the "Isle of Man(hattan) TT". It is basically a circuit around manhattan using the FDR drive, cross bronx expwy, and west side hwy (the FDR and westside hwy meet at the bottom of manhattan and the CxBx joins them at the top). You every want to see some crazy's riding vintage iron or dual sports the TT is something to behold. 30 minutes is about average for a newbie beginner or a novice manhattan rider...

There are plenty of 70's bikes that will eat a cb750's lunch, let alone the new stuff, so if your 750 is taking someone's 620i monster then chances are it is the rider and not the bike. Hell with the right rider a 250 ninja will run rings around our old bikes.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 10:57:50 AM by Geeto67 »
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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2007, 11:13:39 AM »
I thought my 650 was pretty quick, but that was before I had a ride on a Kawa ZX6R.  ;)

I agree with Geeto67. With equal riding skills there are now ay you can outrun a modern sportsbike with a 70's SOHC Honda.

And why should you? Why not enjoy and value these excellent machines for what they are, and as a reminder of a great period in the developement of motorcycles? (And for many of us, as a reminder of an important period of our life  8).)

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2007, 02:59:52 PM »
I skooted down a mile of straight road aboard my k3 between Hubbardston and Rutland MA yesterday,on what was a pretty darned beautiful day. Was hitting around 90 when Mike Rieck reeled me in on his Hayabusa from a thousand or two feet back.

The good thing is there's no shame riding these old 750's. They're just pure fun with nothing to prove. BTW, that was quite a rush watching Mike go by!!

Hope you're enjoying the fall weather as much as I am,
Ben

Hey Ben, that Mike guy is just a show off ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. :D ;)
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Offline azuredesign

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2007, 03:09:27 PM »
Did I mention he was standing on the seat flapping his arms as he went by? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Dave K

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2007, 03:32:01 PM »
Boy, I don't know what to say comparing the SOHC 750 to a more modern bike. I had(sold it in June) a '99 Honda F4. I love my old K3, but there is just no way to compare the 2 bikes in performance or handling. The F4, will just plain SMOKE the old 750. But, I kept and still love my K3.

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2007, 03:54:17 PM »
having just sold my 749 last fall, with the 3 previous seasons on a 2002 m750, i know there's no freakin' way my ole cb will ever keep either of these two bikes in sight, let alone keep up.  my cb750 is too heavy, has low torque/hp, has no brakes and a flimsy frame, i have no idea where the contact patch is, and the suspension is either crap or barely adequate depending on how hard i push it. 

i plan on resisting the opportunity to embarass myself by not challenging anyone.   

BUT, with insurance at $10/month, maintenance that is done in my basement, no cam belts to replace every 6K, no computer to "reflash" if i want to put pipes on or open up the airbox and inexpensive replacement parts everywhere i'm gonna keep it for awhile.   :P
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Offline Master Ted

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2007, 04:45:18 PM »
Boy, I don't know what to say comparing the SOHC 750 to a more modern bike. I had(sold it in June) a '99 Honda F4. I love my old K3, but there is just no way to compare the 2 bikes in performance or handling. The F4, will just plain SMOKE the old 750. But, I kept and still love my K3.

I'm snickering reading many of the posts that dare to compare these old farts to a modern bike in terms of performance. But, that's not what these old rigs are about... if it were then I would have a modern sport bike instead of "Old Barney" (emphasis on barn).  ;D
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 04:55:27 PM by staphcar »
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2007, 05:08:28 PM »
I hear ya DaveK.

Offline 754

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2007, 06:29:15 PM »
I dont think a lot of you have dragraced much, a good running Honda Four can get a way better 60 ft time than most  STOCK sportbikes.

 I am not saying you cam keep up to them up to 70 mph, but you can make them look silly  at a light... everyone that sees it is at the light anyway.

 When I was drag racing we did not have the 60 ft timers but my buddies SOHC 4 has turned 60 fts about .4 sec quicker than stock Busas.....I went to a Busa site to check out their times they said average is around 1.9 sec..
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Offline Kevin400F

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2007, 07:01:37 PM »
I regularly campaign my CB350F-framed, 400F-powered track bike in the company of modern sport bikes at local track days. 
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 07:03:44 PM by Kevin400F »

Offline 736cc

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2007, 07:11:08 PM »
Old age and treachery does quite well against youth and inexperiance (at least up to 100mph) and fuhgedabut-it w/ top-end (all these new bikes go over 160 mph!)

Offline Dave K

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2007, 07:27:03 PM »
You are so right. hehe I have both, old age and........ Unless I have a terribly doggy 750, that wasn't terribly doggy when I would run against other old SOHC 750's years ago and H1's, etc in the early/mid 70's. My F4 would eat the old K3 model for breakfast and it may even do it two up. It is so hard to argue with HP that is around 95 at the rear wheel and almost 100lbs lighter. Even comparing the F4 to the CBX I had, the F4 would eat it as well. Now we are talking stock here. If you pour enough money into many things you may get closer, but then I could start pouring money into the modern bike as well. Why did I keep the K3 and sell the F4? Good question. I loved the performance of the F4. BUT, there was no way to go for a leisurely Sunday morning ride. The riding position was aggressive and only comfortable for me above 80 mph. The K3 is a nice ride where ever I go, smooth, nice positioning and heck, I have been riding it for almost 35yrs. We are old friends. But, the quickness to 130mph was awesome and I even was almost equally impressed while doing it 2 up. I know, not the smartest thing to do. I was never accused of being that smart. We did have full gear on. Never went past 140 mph, but getting there IS QUICK!