Author Topic: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??  (Read 12219 times)

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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2007, 07:42:32 PM »
Well putting our bike against the average crotch rocket would be futile. However, against the average HD or clone, we can do ok if we manage our shifting properly. We have that real kick hat comes way up there in revs, so while the twin is shifting we are still cranking. Now if Honda comes up with a new inline four for their sportbikes, hmmmmmmm a transplant would be interesting.   
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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2007, 07:45:03 PM »
Somebody here said something about, "it's the rider, not the bike"....Here in Colorado, on many mountain roads, that's exactly what it's about, it seems. RXman can talk about some of that, I suspect.   :D

I've gone through it many times here. One of my favorites, though, was one I've written about before. It was a cool late-1980s morning (60F) down in the Durango area, and I was headed back to Denver after a week in Farmington, doing electronic engineer stuff. Had saddlebags full of Tektronix O-scope, bench meters, frequency generators/counters, tools, parts, etc. All my clothes were packed in my tank bag, sort of like in my avatar. I was warming up with some hot chocolate at the Mac's on the main North-South drag when I noticed a nice R90S coming past. I waved to him (I geniunely admire those bikes), but he looked at me and my loaded Honda and then literally sneered, dropped a gear and pulled a little wheelie in the traffic. I thought that was sort of rude, but, oh well, some people's kids...

After I warmed up, I headed up the same road. He must have stopped for gas or something, because about 15 miles or so out of town, with 200 miles to go and 10 AM already, I was laying into it a bit on the Million Dollar Hiway when I caught up to him. We were hopping some lite traffic, and he would really pour it on to get around his obstacle cars. I watched for a while until traffic thinned, north of Silverton, and decided to catch up. He obviously didn't like the idea, and started blasting those half-mile straights. But, that road becomes anything but straight for the next 34 miles above Silverton, and soon I was right behind him.

I measured him for a while, then went under him on a 3-turn hairpin, then hit it harder until he was nowhere to be seen, even on the longer straights and the town of Ouray. I buzzed along about 65 then until I reached Montrose, where I heard the town bells stroke noon and decided to stop at that Mac's for lunch (I call this "M&M Racing", Mac's-to-Mac's  :D ). I parked it out front and went inside to eat: about the time I sat down at the table, here came the BMW. He pulled in and parked next to mine, looking it over for a minute, then came in and ordered his lunch. To my surprise, he came over and asked to sit down with me!

We talked for awhile about where we're going, etc. He was riding from his fiance's in Durango, back to Grand Junction, riding empty. Then he asked what I'd done to my 750. I explained it was still stock (it had 10k miles since I bored it to 1st oversize, still box-stock, freshly tuned). Then I told him I was carrying about 70 pounds of electronics and a week's clothes, which he didn't believe. So, when we left the restaurant, I showed him the saddlebags full of gear. Then, he called me a liar, saying I must have a big-bore kit or something, to beat his R90S! I asked how fast he was hitting those straights: he said over 100. I told him I never hit 100 the whole time we were playing, but that I never dropped under 40 in any hairpin turn, either. Except when I was behind him.

Then, he just looked at me for a minute, then his bike, like he was getting pissed. I said, "It's not just the bike, but how you ride!" He left in sort of a huff, but I guess that made us even.   :-\

It's 112 miles from Durango to Montrose. I'd made it in about 95 minutes, took him nearly 2 hours.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline cben750f0

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2007, 09:42:03 PM »
i still maintain that a poorly ridden F4 (i have had both the F4 and the F4i), will be slower than a well riden CB750, in the twisty stuff, on the straights its a differnet story altogether..

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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2007, 11:12:21 PM »
Well I was kinda taking the pisss outta myself, but everyone here was too polite to notice that I was working pretty hard just to keep up with a pair of modern 250's, so I have to say here and now that as much as I love my CB750's, they really aren't a match for a modern sportsbike, full stop.

I've no doubt that a good rider on an old bike will not be embarrased by a bad rider on a modern bike, but the truth is that a competent rider on a modern bike, will smoke a competent rider on an old bike. That's called progress, and is just a fact of life.

My 1981 Suzuki GS1000S "Wes Cooley Rep" will smoke my 1971 CB750 in any condition, whether it be a straight line, or in the twisties, but then my (equally talented) friends 1993 GSXR1100 makes my GS1000S look like my CB750, and so on. If we want to take on a modern sport bike and win, then it's probably best we use a modern sports bike. It's that "don't take a knife to a gunfight" thing.

I am enjoying the stories though, although I'm guessing that a modicum of "poetic license" is creeping in to some, ha ha! Cheers, Terry. ;D

   
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2007, 02:20:02 AM »
nothin poetic about it!!!!!!!! >:(











i was tellin the truth.... he cant ride......










 ;D and im that good ;D



peace 8)
you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
he said \\\\\\\'it was like watching a 250kg unguided weapon getting stuck up you bum\\\\\\\ http://www.bikepics.com/members/trixtrem/

Offline jdpas29

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2007, 04:35:29 AM »
one time this older woman in a buick century took off a little too quickly from the light we were stopped at downtown.  i quickly put her in her place.  once i cranked the bike after stalling i quickly ran up to third gear and even though she had already gotten in the turn lane, the way i blew past her...  it was clear.  she was no match for the SOHC.   8)
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2007, 03:56:15 PM »
nothin poetic about it!!!!!!!! >:(

i was tellin the truth.... he cant ride......

 ;D and im that good ;D

peace 8)

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I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline kpier883

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2007, 05:47:54 PM »
Terry,

I saw what you were saying about the 250s.  Thanks for bolding it and I thought it was funny.

Was headed down 280 southwest of Birmingham and was outrun by a very new black HD last Saturday.  It had a full fairing and my bike isn't running its best.  I had been hurrying along at 85 to 90 mph and he pulled up and passed.  I gassed it, caught up and passed back.  Then we rode along at 95 - 100 until he opened his up.  I tried to keep up, but could never get past about 105 mph.  He probably had 3 to 5 mph more.  First time I have ever been outrun by an HD, but like I said, my bike isn't running its best right now in the last 1/4 turn of the throttle.  It actually speeds up if I back off the throttle some.  The really new HDs aren't really very fast, but they do have twice the engine displacement (plus some) of the 750 going for them.  A 736 is slightly less than 45 cubic inches while the a 2007 Ultra would be 96 cubic inches.
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Offline tsp37

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2007, 06:20:47 PM »
I am quite sure that any half-fast rider with a modern crotch-rocket could embarass me on my 650, even if we traded bikes before the run.  However, I too could challange the old lady in the Buick, except maybe on bingo night.

I knew a man long ago with a '68 two stroke Saab.  He'd puff his chest and strut while describing how he could blow the doors off of a Volkswagon.

Offline 754

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2007, 06:36:03 PM »
I must say I am really enjoying this thread...

 but..looks like there are not any on here that enjoy the holeshot!!




 if you really want to feel bad about your bikes performance and see SOHC,s that could give an average rider on new stuff fits.. look of Holeshot Performance... the history section!!


 I feel so inadequate... :'(
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It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline steam-powered man

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2007, 06:43:14 PM »
had a cbr600f4i about 5 seasons ago but had to sell it, kept finding myself at 125mph just to see what it felt like.  crazy smooth, zero wind effects as long as everything was zipped up, and was pretty careful to raise my head up off the inst pod very slowly.  did cruise at 90mph, in second gear at 10K, for a little while.  to put this in perspective, i had 4 more gears and 4K left.  sorry to see it go, but am too old for that foolishness.   ;D
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Offline sparty

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2007, 07:06:31 PM »
Somebody here said something about, "it's the rider, not the bike"....Here in Colorado, on many mountain roads, that's exactly what it's about, it seems. RXman can talk about some of that, I suspect.   :D

I've gone through it many times here. One of my favorites, though, was one I've written about before. It was a cool late-1980s morning (60F) down in the Durango area, and I was headed back to Denver after a week in Farmington, doing electronic engineer stuff. Had saddlebags full of Tektronix O-scope, bench meters, frequency generators/counters, tools, parts, etc. All my clothes were packed in my tank bag, sort of like in my avatar. I was warming up with some hot chocolate at the Mac's on the main North-South drag when I noticed a nice R90S coming past. I waved to him (I geniunely admire those bikes), but he looked at me and my loaded Honda and then literally sneered, dropped a gear and pulled a little wheelie in the traffic. I thought that was sort of rude, but, oh well, some people's kids...

After I warmed up, I headed up the same road. He must have stopped for gas or something, because about 15 miles or so out of town, with 200 miles to go and 10 AM already, I was laying into it a bit on the Million Dollar Hiway when I caught up to him. We were hopping some lite traffic, and he would really pour it on to get around his obstacle cars. I watched for a while until traffic thinned, north of Silverton, and decided to catch up. He obviously didn't like the idea, and started blasting those half-mile straights. But, that road becomes anything but straight for the next 34 miles above Silverton, and soon I was right behind him.

I measured him for a while, then went under him on a 3-turn hairpin, then hit it harder until he was nowhere to be seen, even on the longer straights and the town of Ouray. I buzzed along about 65 then until I reached Montrose, where I heard the town bells stroke noon and decided to stop at that Mac's for lunch (I call this "M&M Racing", Mac's-to-Mac's  :D ). I parked it out front and went inside to eat: about the time I sat down at the table, here came the BMW. He pulled in and parked next to mine, looking it over for a minute, then came in and ordered his lunch. To my surprise, he came over and asked to sit down with me!

We talked for awhile about where we're going, etc. He was riding from his fiance's in Durango, back to Grand Junction, riding empty. Then he asked what I'd done to my 750. I explained it was still stock (it had 10k miles since I bored it to 1st oversize, still box-stock, freshly tuned). Then I told him I was carrying about 70 pounds of electronics and a week's clothes, which he didn't believe. So, when we left the restaurant, I showed him the saddlebags full of gear. Then, he called me a liar, saying I must have a big-bore kit or something, to beat his R90S! I asked how fast he was hitting those straights: he said over 100. I told him I never hit 100 the whole time we were playing, but that I never dropped under 40 in any hairpin turn, either. Except when I was behind him.

Then, he just looked at me for a minute, then his bike, like he was getting pissed. I said, "It's not just the bike, but how you ride!" He left in sort of a huff, but I guess that made us even.   :-\

It's 112 miles from Durango to Montrose. I'd made it in about 95 minutes, took him nearly 2 hours.

The R90S is a fast bike. About 70 HP @ 7000.  But they weigh 498 wet and don't spin up like a SOHC 750.  A stock CB750 would eat the R90S easily.  Glad you put the airhead to bed.  My buddy Bruce has a nice 1976 R90S and my bike will destroy his and he knows it.  Especially with my new engine.

Art
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Offline 754

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2007, 07:26:15 PM »
490 wet for a R90s.. sounds a bit heavy,, I will go check..


A bone stock cb750 1974 against an R90 S through the corners with the same rider.. I would put my bet on the Beemer.

 A guy was in my shop a few years ago, owns one of Reg Pridmores production racers.. I used to have a poster of it on the wall.. a few decades ago..
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2007, 07:33:15 PM »
490 wet for a R90s.. sounds a bit heavy,, I will go check..


A bone stock cb750 1974 against an R90 S through the corners with the same rider.. I would put my bet on the Beemer.

 A guy was in my shop a few years ago, owns one of Reg Pridmores production racers.. I used to have a poster of it on the wall.. a few decades ago..


http://www.mcmototech.com/R90S/specs.htm

See 498 wet
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2007, 07:41:45 PM »
As an old man myself: I like the upright riding position anymore. The "crouch rockets" are too bent for me to ride since my big wreck. Besides, they haven't got 100,000 miles in them, for the most part.  :D
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2007, 07:42:44 PM »

A bone stock cb750 1974 against an R90 S through the corners with the same rider.. I would put my bet on the Beemer.


...so would I...
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline 754

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2007, 07:58:28 PM »
Hmm. the one I checked said 215 Kilos full of gas.. about 452.

modellhistorie (kronologisk).... sounds Polski to me

 I owned a 81 R100 RT as well as at least a six-pack of 754,s.
 The BMW struck me as very light, lighter than a stock CB 750, but the BMX had bags, full fairing, glass cover the size of a magazine over the headlight, 3 disc brakes and a  Quartz clock, and a rack on the back.. and it was still light.. After owning that and comparing parts, especially suspension against the CB750 I came to the conclusion the 750's were built cheaply.. built well but  not using the best of parts. Our 750's usually had the lowere fork legs wiggling back and forth at 110 mph.. nothing to fix there, the BMW at least you could rebush your fork legs and  fix them..... just a different mindset in what they use to build bikes.. Japan built bikes for the masses..

 But I still love my 750,s just some parts can be improved..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline HITMAN

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2007, 08:05:45 PM »
I was sitting at a light on my 40K+ mi CM250 custom lightly revving the engine(so it wouldn't die), when I noticed a biker next to me just glaring like he's pissed off.  I think to myself I can take this guy with all his fancy gear, so I carefully watch the light waiting for it to turn green.  Then just before it changes, he suddenly jumps the light and goes through two gears.  My poor old bike coughs a couple times before it takes a deep breath and lunges forward slowly gaining on this guy, thinking to myself, I can take him.  As I hit second I can hear him hitting another gear, and another, and another.  My bike sputters in second gear oddly I have enough time to think that I wish I had rebuilt the carb when my poor old bike takes another deep breath and ever so slowly I gain on him and while passing him he gives me the finger.  I beat him!!!  But I'll admit racing my old Honda against newer bikes, some of those bicycles have 18 or more gears on them.


Seriously, I think it all winds down to skill levels racing olde bikes against new ones.  But it's a hell of a lot of fun trying anyway.
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2007, 08:41:58 PM »
I beat him!!!  But I'll admit racing my old Honda against newer bikes, some of those bicycles have 18 or more gears on them.

Ha ha, I nearly wet myself! I thought this was gonna be another wanky "Yeaah I kicked that fireblade riding fools asss good" stories, so I loved the punchline. ;D

Re: the R90S vs the standard CB750 debate, I owned a 1979 R100RS for 12 years (the longest I ever owned a bike) and it would blow away a 750/4 (or just about any large jap multi) off the lights, and had a top speed of nearly 140 Mph when I crouched behind that beautiful fairing. The R90S was almost as fast, and would be just as fast with the same fairing, due to it's higher state of tune.

Like most big twins, it had bags of torque, and as we all know, torque = accelleration, and BHP = top speed, so it could take out a GSXR1100 at the lights, but after a few hundred yards, the big Suzy would rocket past. Great fun drag racing guys up to the legal speed limit, then I could just back off and let them risk their licenses if they were that intent on passing me, ha ha!

As Hondaman points out, the K4 wouldn't be a match for the R90S if it was piloted by a talented rider. Cheers, Terry. ;D

     
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline kpier883

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2007, 05:25:25 PM »
As an old man myself: I like the upright riding position anymore. The "crouch rockets" are too bent for me to ride since my big wreck. Besides, they haven't got 100,000 miles in them, for the most part.  :D

100,000 miles!  Wow.  You are right, the crotch rockets are using unproven technology. 
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Offline Dave K

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2007, 05:33:39 PM »
I actually expect all of these crotch rockets(at least the Hondas :)) to go at least 100,000. With their valve train set up, good bearings liguid cooling, etc., they will be long life engines. If maintained as well as the old air cooled bikes that have made high mileage, they will probably last longer. Now, some of the riders on them, I am not so certain of making high mileage. :-\

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2007, 07:14:36 PM »
I actually expect all of these crotch rockets(at least the Hondas :)) to go at least 100,000. With their valve train set up, good bearings liguid cooling, etc., they will be long life engines. If maintained as well as the old air cooled bikes that have made high mileage, they will probably last longer. Now, some of the riders on them, I am not so certain of making high mileage. :-\

Originally, that's what I thought, too, water cooling and all, like the 'Wings, etc... But, some of the longer-term riders I know herebouts are discussing the maintenance issues and wearouts on thier bikes after just 2-4 years of riding. I expected to hear of chains or shafts or tires: I'm hearing about top end issues (valve train, like cap wear (!) and bearings on the cams, valve guides) and at least one rod bearing in the group of 22 riders. There's a good mix of Kaw, Suzy, Honda, Duke, BMW in the group: the BMW rider is happy, though. He only has 22,000 miles on his, at 4 years. The highest mileage I've heard from the others is in the teens. It will be interesting soon: two guys bought 'busas last Spring. One is thinking of selling it: he scared himself too many times this summer. He's only got 4000 miles on that one, might be a good buy for someone! (Too much for my aging reflexes, I suspect.)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2007, 08:31:54 PM »
Yeah, I've seen new-ish R1's getting top end and transmission rebuilds at my local shop, and of course those tiny 250/4's with their 17000 RPM redlines don't last long either!

My 1992 BMWK1100LT has a tad under 100,000 miles on it's clock and should be good for around another 300,000 before it needs a rebuild, but I suspect that I'll need one first, ha ha!  ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline 754

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2007, 08:45:43 PM »
I dont think a lot of them will see 100K either.

To begin with I work somewhat in the engine building trades, and am a bit of a Go see Him guy  when all else fails.. so I get to see a lot of tales of woe..

 That said here are a few reasons I can think of;

Lack of meat is a huge issue, in an effort to cut costs and save weight, everything is now thinner and lighter, leading to less rebuildability and higher failure rates. What an old engine would take heatwise a few times will melt or warp some news stuff into unfixable junk. I have had Kawi single heads for cam journal repair and no room to sleeve it..unlike say an XL-350 or a Cb750( you can buy and change them out on them)
Same scenario in cars.. cracked rods ..probably used in bikes now, heads that can take an overheating, etc..

Another thing about die-casting, over time it tends to degrade or warp, not always but it is common.  Endless heating up and coolingwill not enhance these parts. So the cb 750 carbs siiting in a shed might work after 20 yrs, but the ultra-thin modern ones, will they be useable. More plastic parts too, how long will they last??

Parts cost and availability, there are so many models and less years production, that parts are expensive (if available) and there is less used parts out there. Less chance of aftermarket as well.

We live in a throwaway society, people cant afford to fix a bike if the cost of cosmetics are too high if you drop it, and its not going on the back forty to sit there till someone comes looking, it gets scrapped. Less people can work on their bikes, what may have been a fix-r-upper  ,now may not be saleable..it gets thrown out.  Some bikes now , setting the valves & tuneup may cost more than the first CB 750,s cost.

I think times have changed a lot...
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline MRieck

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Re: Ever Run up against Newer bikes on a SOHC Honda??
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2007, 04:54:50 AM »
 Then again modern bikes are getting incredible HP/liter #'s. Something has to give. You can't use low lift cams, rocker arms, heavy rods with bolts that only torque to 14lbs, clunky pistons, hugh valve stems, cement filled wrist pins etc and expect any type of real performence. There are overbuilt modern engines the Hayabusa being one of them. People's expectations are much higher than they were in 1975 in regard to performance and you can't stand in the way of technology. I've seen plenty of destroyed old CB, Z and GS engines too. Look at the CBF2.....you gonna get 100,000 out of that head?
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"