Topic: Who thinks 70.00 is to much for NEW carb insulators......

[Hope]

I picked up 8 OEM 500/550 insulators today from my dealer. No problem.

You picked up the intake manifold insulators or the air box boot rubbers?  You must have picked up the manifold insulators.

Cylinder head to carb insulators.

Yeah, they usually have those.  Our great debate in this thread is how to get those rubber boots for the air box.  Thanks

[TwoTired]

How are the ones for $1 different from the ones Carpy is selling for 8 for $20?  I was just comparing the clamps that USN20 said the got  8 for $20 from Carpy to some $1 clamps I found.  I am not saying that these are the clamps to use.  Please tell me what the difference is in the ones that Carpy sells and the ones that I found.

Are you folks telling me that Carpy is selling "hose clamps [that] will extrude soft rubber through the screw threads in the bands.  (Pretty harsh treatment for brand new rubber bits)" and that Carpy is selling "Autozone heater hoses"?

Carpy isn't known for his impeccable engineering prowess.  He is known to adapt whatever parts he can find to achieve the "look" he is striving for.

Old, hard rubber won't care about using those screw clamps as they are beyond having extrusion capabilities.  Soft new ones are a different story.

Perhaps Carpy's vast experience has taught him the exact torque needed to put on his style hose clamps, without shredding new rubber couplers?
However, many shade tree mechs turn screws until they give and then back them off 1/8 turn.  If you do that with smooth band clamps, you leave the new rubber intact.

I have not, and would not, use Carpy's or autozone screw clamps on new rubber pieces, barring emergency conditions.  Even then, I would be leery to watch for rubber extrusion and then worry about proper seal between rubber and the mating flange.

Now, we will hear the chorus of people who have done this with "no problem".

Follow your bliss...

Cheers,

[mkramer1121]

Hey, Honda made them smooth for a reason...

[KB02]

Hope, the only difference that I can see is that the ones Carpy is selling are listed as "stainless steel." I have no idea abuot the $1 ones you found.

However (as Llyod mentioned) I have use these with no problems... on my 30 year rubbers that also have a coating of silocone on the sealing surface. 

On my K8, I will be getting new rubbers... and I like the look of those T-Clamps. 

[Raul CB750K1]

I don't really think that the damage to the rubber is the issue here. The carb-to-cylinder manifold is thick enough as the "splines" on the aftermarket clamp going through the rubber, at least in my opinion -you know, like some part of your anatomy, everybody has one-. I think the importance of original Honda clamps is that you can't overtighten them to the extent of damagind or distorting the soft alloy carb throat, something that can happen with the aftermarket clamp.

[MRieck]

 The big problem with any clamp is overtightening. Many bikes (most modern ones) have spacers in the clamps to prevent overtightening

[Hope]

sheesh...  I didn't mean to start the great clamp debate.  I just wanted to point out that you could get the same clamps Carpy sells for less...  hello - I am the bargain hunter.

[754]

The wide clamps are not right, but I use them on my Webers.

The problem everyone here is missing is the OEM clamps work on the smooth part of the head spigot, pressing a flat surface against another flat surface.

The wider clamps actually pull on the big diameter of the spigot lip which given enough pressure will start to cut into the intake rubbers.. an OEM will never do that.

My guess is that Hondas engineering along with a rubber intake in good condition, actually takes very little effort to seal.. the wide clamps a different matter..

[MRieck]

The wide clamps are not right, but I use them on my Webers.

The problem everyone here is missing is the OEM clamps work on the smooth part of the head spigot, pressing a flat surface against another flat surface.

The wider clamps actually pull on the big diameter of the spigot lip which given enough pressure will start to cut into the intake rubbers.. an OEM will never do that.

My guess is that Hondas engineering along with a rubber intake in good condition, actually takes very little effort to seal.. the wide clamps a different matter..

BMW OEM air cooled clamps are exactly as those nonperforated stainless clamps. They fit the CB groove perfectly and have rolled edges. They do not "extrude". They work great. I bought 16 pair at the Moodus, CT International BMW rally years ago. I also took the FJ to the asphalt "dyno" at 2:00 AM Saturday night at that event. 10,000RPM...shifting 2nd to 5th. You guys figure out what happened. As a side note...we were going to toss Baiocco balls from the large hill onto tents but settled for the burn out instead.

[scondon]

  The perforated clamps do come in same width as Honda clamps. Sold in auto stores as "fuel injector" clamps for $1.79ea around here. Not to enter into debate on the subject but they work fine and do not extrude carb boot rubber the same as they would on softer fuel or oil lines. May not be the "perfect" tool for the job, but I'm using them to fit larger F2 boots to a K8 head and the seal is tight and haven't noticed any "ridge" patterns on the rubber when I've removed them(2 months after install).

[joeb]

I will secound what Scondon just wrote I have the same clamps and have no problems with them.

[TwoTired]

The big problem with any clamp is overtightening. Many bikes (most modern ones) have spacers in the clamps to prevent overtightening

Agreed.
I suppose that is my biggest beef with recommending the screw clamps to amateurs.  Anyone got any torque specs for this application? (It's going to be dependent on the screw pitch of the selected device.)

Amateurs waiting for audible feedback from the device or simply reaching the limit of their strength will, invariably, distort the installation.  Screw drivers, nut drivers can over-torque.  The clamps that allow ratchet handles will almost guarantee abuse.

Perhaps, though, that people not willing to use the proper tool/ part for the job, simply get what they pay for?

However, I will admit to finding the stock type well overtightened.  But, at least, they do have a built in limit.

Next, you guys will be telling us to use automotive oil the lube the screw threads.

 

Cheers,

[BobbyR]

Well I have a question and a point to make:

Question: What are these rubber tubes "insulating" the carbs from? Is it vibration or heat. It may be something everyone else knows but me, but I need to know.

Point: In my industry we use high pressure air and we need to keep air from leaking out of pipes and hoses. In this case we are keeping air from leaking into the pipe. When you have supple rubber it reacts to pressure changes within it. In the case of our carb insulators when they are new and supple you can actually see them pulse like little Hearts at idle. I surmise that when vacum is applied to each insulator it  will pull tighter and seal better. So, death grip clamping is not needed.  Old hard rubber won't react that way.

[paulages]

Well I have a question and a point to make:

Question: What are these rubber tubes "insulating" the carbs from? Is it vibration or heat. It may be something everyone else knows but me, but I need to know.

Point: In my industry we use high pressure air and we need to keep air from leaking out of pipes and hoses. In this case we are keeping air from leaking into the pipe. When you have supple rubber it reacts to pressure changes within it. In the case of our carb insulators when they are new and supple you can actually see them pulse like little Hearts at idle. I surmise that when vacum is applied to each insulator it  will pull tighter and seal better. So, death grip clamping is not needed.  Old hard rubber won't react that way.

heat from the engine.

[USN20]

sheesh...  I didn't mean to start the great clamp debate.  I just wanted to point out that you could get the same clamps Carpy sells for less...  hello - I am the bargain hunter.

Previously the Pelican website was referenced :   
http://www.competizone.com/catalog/shopcart/928M/POR_928M_MISCLL_pg7.htm

The Pelican website lists the 32-50mm clamps as "Gemi" brand.

There is no photo for the Gemi 32-50mm clamps. (Sorry for some reason, this image is currently unavailable for viewing)

The Carpy 32-50mm clamps are "Norma" brand. http://www.cb750cafe.com/parts.php?id=55

Between the obvious difference in manufacturers and lack of photo verification, how can the Pelican website be sufficient evidence to support the claim that they are both the same clamps for less? Or perhaps it's first-hand experience with the Gemi clamps. Just wondering ... 

[Hope]

Sounds as though you believe that Carpy's clamps are superior to any other clamp because why exactly???

Just because there was no picture when you clicked on the Gemi clamp doesn't mean the clamps are no good.   You might be surprised to learn that the Pelican web site sells Norma clams for 75 cents and $1 each, also.  Gemi is not the only brand clamp that they sell.  Just scroll up on the Pelican web site and you will see the different size Norma clamps that they sell.  Just admit it, you're a little upset that you spent too much for the quality of clamps you received.  You could have got you some of those nice T-clamps for the money you spent.  I think that's what I am going with when my air box boots come in. 

Here is a link to the pics (not supplied by Pelican website, but provided by the manufacturer.) 

http://www.abagroup.com/ABATemplates/Page____298.aspx





whatever dude...  I already said that I didn't want to start the great clamp debate, just find some that were less expensive.

[scondon]

  TT, since all the pod filters made come with these perf clamps that damage rubber and can warp carbs if aggressively overtightened then I am surprised that you have not brought this up previously in one of your "pods cause cancer" threads      Kidding,TT............TT?............no, I was only jokin'..........didn't mean nothin' by it.................what are you doing with that swingarm?......NOOOOOooooooooo..aaaarrrrrggghhhhhhhhhh   (insert bloody head icon)

[TwoTired]

  TT, since all the pod filters made come with these perf clamps that damage rubber and can warp carbs if aggressively overtightened then I am surprised that you have not brought this up previously in one of your "pods cause cancer" threads      Kidding,TT............TT?............no, I was only jokin'..........didn't mean nothin' by it.................what are you doing with that swingarm?......NOOOOOooooooooo..aaaarrrrrggghhhhhhhhhh   (insert bloody head icon)

Pods are throw away items intended to be replaced or discarded yearly.  So, longevity certainly isn't an issue with these.  Further, their manufacturers wouldn't want to supply quality clamps, as that would cost them more than $.50, eating into the profits, as well as erode that "cheap" aura that sells so well.
In short, perf clamps chewing up pods is actually an added service to those unfortunate souls that buy them, as it hastens their placement into the sh!tcan where they belong. 
It's a cryin' shame when these demon spawn devices from hell perf clamps are used to lacerate and needlessly maim beauteous new, soft, and supple carb insulators. (sniff) 

Hey Sean, how'd you know I had a spare swing arm?  Don't worry.  It's only 550 size.  Very little threat of damage to the large thick heads of 750 guys.
Wait what am I saying? I own 3- 750s now.  Er, never mind the above. 

What size pods fit the PD carbs?

 

[scadaman29325]

Got the price back $57 (at today's rate) plus $5 fee plus 2.5% plus shipping...

Buyer's remorse? Yeah, I got it, but I've been preparing myself over the past few days.

("Honey, get me another beer! I'll use it as a chaser for this Jack No.7.")

Later, Phil

Sorry Phil,

So you're gonna buy new rubber cheaper than what you bought someone else's 30 year old rubber for....  Nice.

I think that the US doesn't pay the 2.5%

YES, I paid dearly for well used boots.

Strangely enough, it felt like somebody was kicking me in the a$$ when I hit the 'pay' button!

I wish I had seen this site (DSS) earlier!

Oh well, I can only hope that will be the last time I screw myself...

Later, Phil

[BobbyR]

Got the price back $57 (at today's rate) plus $5 fee plus 2.5% plus shipping...

Buyer's remorse? Yeah, I got it, but I've been preparing myself over the past few days.

("Honey, get me another beer! I'll use it as a chaser for this Jack No.7.")

Later, Phil

Sorry Phil,

So you're gonna buy new rubber cheaper than what you bought someone else's 30 year old rubber for....  Nice.

I think that the US doesn't pay the 2.5%

YES, I paid dearly for well used boots.

Strangely enough, it felt like somebody was kicking me in the a$$ when I hit the 'pay' button!

I wish I had seen this site (DSS) earlier!

Oh well, I can only hope that will be the last time I screw myself...

Later, Phil

Phil, just resell them on ebay and put the money toward a new set. 

[Hope]

Phil, just resell them on ebay and put the money toward a new set. 

That's just wrong on so many levels...

[BobbyR]

Phil, just resell them on ebay and put the money toward a new set. 

That's just wrong on so many levels...

No not at all. There are many who feel that old hard rubbers are just dandy. Just heat them up clamp them down @ 100 ft lbs.

[736cc]

This is such a long thread, I can't resist throwing in this recent pic

[scondon]

  TT, since all the pod filters made come with these perf clamps that damage rubber and can warp carbs if aggressively overtightened then I am surprised that you have not brought this up previously in one of your "pods cause cancer" threads      Kidding,TT............TT?............no, I was only jokin'..........didn't mean nothin' by it.................what are you doing with that swingarm?......NOOOOOooooooooo..aaaarrrrrggghhhhhhhhhh   (insert bloody head icon)

Pods are throw away items intended to be replaced or discarded yearly.  So, longevity certainly isn't an issue with these.  Further, their manufacturers wouldn't want to supply quality clamps, as that would cost them more than $.50, eating into the profits, as well as erode that "cheap" aura that sells so well.
In short, perf clamps chewing up pods is actually an added service to those unfortunate souls that buy them, as it hastens their placement into the sh!tcan where they belong. 
It's a cryin' shame when these demon spawn devices from hell perf clamps are used to lacerate and needlessly maim beauteous new, soft, and supple carb insulators. (sniff) 

Hey Sean, how'd you know I had a spare swing arm?  Don't worry.  It's only 550 size.  Very little threat of damage to the large thick heads of 750 guys.
Wait what am I saying? I own 3- 750s now.  Er, never mind the above. 

What size pods fit the PD carbs?

 

     Preach it like it is, brother TT. Can I get an amen? 

[Hope]

YES, I paid dearly for well used boots.

Strangely enough, it felt like somebody was kicking me in the a$$ when I hit the 'pay' button!

I wish I had seen this site (DSS) earlier!

Oh well, I can only hope that will be the last time I screw myself...

Later, Phil

Sorry to tell ya Phil...  Just checked my credit card statement and I was charged $43.36 by David Silver Spares and $1.30 by my credit card company for "foreign transaction fee".  So, my total was a whopping $44.66.  Thought you might want to know that.  Also, my boots came in today.

I know you're always looking for a bargain, Phil, so I'll let you buy my boots for $100.