Topic: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.

[Sam Green Racing]

Yes Malc, I saw that as well. Although Tommy is quite small and made the 125 CR93 look big, I think the one in the pic is the 250 CR72 or a CR77 305. The reason I thought that, was looking at the size of the tyres.

Sam.

[bwaller]

That's great Sam, I feel like a kid anticipating a bedtime story!

How do you propose the fellows break in here, start with their own personal racing histories leading up to the CR project and Daytona, then the members here can ask revelant questions?

Still no news at my end, but these are busy guys for sure.

[Sam Green Racing]

I'm not sure Brent,....between them, their racing histories are that long the board would probably crash.

Let's just see what happens.

Sam.

[MoTo-BunnY]

..and the fantastic 6 cylinder 250.

Always wanted to see one of these engines with the head off, wonder if he has such a picture? In any event, look forward to his and other's presence here.

Here is a neat picture of the 250-6 race bike, itself, I scanned out of one of our magazines we were selling - thought you might like it. (I hope its the same one?  lol)

[Sam Green Racing]

Thanks MoTo-BunnY.

Here's a video of the six at Oulton Park, this is the circuit the first CR750s were tested at in preparation for the Bol-D-Or endurance race.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6218960744616196267

Sam.

[Bob Wessner]

Google says..

"We're sorry, but this video may not be available."

 

[Sam Green Racing]

If you google honda 250 six cylinder motorcycle you'll find lots of video of them.

No idea why it didn't work.

Sam.

[MoTo-BunnY]

Also, here is the October 1970 Cycle magazine article on a Dick Mann Daytona racer replica - its pretty tech involved. Most of you probably already have this info, I would imagine? - but its a kewl read.

(the perks of selling automotive/motorcycle/construction literature for a living - ALL the reading material you can imagine!. . . lol.)

Honda CB750-90HP Kit - Cycle - OCT 1970.pdf

[Sam Green Racing]

It's been posted on here before but we won't shout at you if you post the rest of the article.

Sam.

[Jonesy]

(The following info is taken from "Honda Motorcycles" by Aaron P. Frank)

Dick Mann's official qualifying average speed was clocked at 152.82 MPH.

There were 4 factory bikes for deffinite as there were 4 riders.
There was also a private one entered (none factory) built by a guy named Woody Leone a Beaumont, Texas based Honda dealer from what I have read up on.
Did this back up bike get used after Ralf Bryans bike went up in flames ?....the book says not.

Yoshio Nakamura was given the responsibility for the Honda factory effort at Daytona. Advised by John Surtees (a former 7-time road racing champion), the riders were Ralph Bryans (World 125 GP Champ), Tommy Robb and Honda U.K. dealer and racer Bill Smith. The head of Honda R&D (Mr. Harada) contacted Bob Hansen and had him field one motorcycle under the guise of being a contingency entry, but in reality he wanted Hansen to "keep an eye on Nakamura"... Dick Mann was Hansen's choice.

As a backup plan for Ralph Bryans' bike after it caught fire and was badly incinerated by the burning magnesium cases, Hansen had supplied a Beaumont, Texas Honda dealer named Woody Leone with a CR race kit to build a privateer entry, with the agreement that if something happened to one of the factory bikes, they would have access to Leone's machine. Nakamura ignored Hansen's plan and decided to rebuild the burned bike. Hansen thought he was crazy, as in his mind a frame after being through a magnesium fire would never be 100% OK afterwards...

If I get the legend correctly, Dick Mann was a last-minute selection to ride the third back-up bike, and intuitively geared-it sky-high when he saw all the camchains breaking in practice. Then during the race his teamates broke camchains and Dick was so far out in front when HIS camchain started rattling he cruised at less than full-speed to victory.

Dick was instructed to take it easy on the bike in order to keep it together for the whole race. As the second-place Triumph entry was creeping closer and closer, Nakamura jumped over the pit wall and ordered Hansen to tell Mann to go faster. Hansen replied, "You get back over that fence and mind your own business. I'm running this race now!" These words eventually lead to Hansen's departure from Honda less than a week later...

[Sam Green Racing]

(The following info is taken from "Honda Motorcycles" by Arron P. Frank)

Dick Mann's official qualifying average speed was clocked at 152.82 MPH.

There were 4 factory bikes for deffinite as there were 4 riders.
There was also a private one entered (none factory) built by a guy named Woody Leone a Beaumont, Texas based Honda dealer from what I have read up on.
Did this back up bike get used after Ralf Bryans bike went up in flames ?....the book says not.

Yoshio Nakamura was given the responsibility for the Honda factory effort at Daytona. Advised by John Surtees (a former 7-time road racing champion), the riders were Ralph Bryans (World 125 GP Champ), Tommy Robb and Honda U.K. dealer and racer Bill Smith. The head of Honda R&D (Mr. Harada) contacted Bob Hansen and had him field one motorcycle under the guise of being a contingency entry, but in reality he wanted Hansen to "keep an eye on Nakamura"... Dick Mann was Hansen's choice.

As a backup plan for Ralph Bryans' bike after it caught fire and was badly incinerated by the burning magnesium cases, Hansen had supplied a Beaumont, Texas Honda dealer named Woody Leone with a CR race kit to build a privateer entry, with the agreement that if something happened to one of the factory bikes, they would have access to Leone's machine. Nakamura ignored Hansen's plan and decided to rebuild the burned bike. Hansen thought he was crazy, as in his mind a frame after being through a magnesium fire would never be 100% OK afterwards.

"I also thought they wouldn't get it back together in time-they had Japanese guys flying over with parts in their pockets!  I didn't like it, and said that I'd take full responsibility only for my machine, and have nothing to do with what they were doing"

So what did happen ?  it dosen't say.   This is what we are trying to find out. You read stories in books then another book comes along and contradicts the other

Thanks Dan.

Sam.

[Jonesy]

Looks like we read the same books, Sam! LOL 

I wonder if any of the old bike mags had the Daytona starting grid published? What was the sactioning body for the Daytona race? Could the record be researched?

[Sam Green Racing]

Errrrrrrrr.......it's you that lives in the USA I was busy thrashing my Benly while all this was going on

Sam.

[Jonesy]

Errrrrrrrr.......it's you that lives in the USA I was busy thrashing my Benly while all this was going on

Sam.

..At least you were around back then!  (At the time of the 1969 Daytona, I was wasn't due into the world for another 9 years... ; : )

I was asking those questions more in general, in case someone else on here might know.

[Sam Green Racing]

It was probably th AMA Danny but I'm not 100% sure.

Sam.

[goon 1492]

Errrrrrrrr.......it's you that lives in the USA I was busy thrashing my Benly while all this was going on

Sam.

..At least you were around back then!  (At the time of the 1969 Daytona, I was wasn't due into the world for another 9 years... ; : )

I was asking those questions more in general, in case someone else on here might know.

Me too not until 1977, man this is incredible some of the stories that can be read on here are priceless, makes me want to start printing it all off to read again later, you guys are all awsome for sharing all of this.

[HondaMan]

Also, here is the October 1970 Cycle magazine article on a Dick Mann Daytona racer replica - its pretty tech involved. Most of you probably already have this info, I would imagine? - but its a kewl read.

(the perks of selling automotive/motorcycle/construction literature for a living - ALL the reading material you can imagine!. . . lol.)

Honda CB750-90HP Kit - Cycle - OCT 1970.pdf

I remember this article! It's what got me roadracing the 750. Before that, I was puttering around on my CB77, with 337cc Rocky kit, ported, regeared, trying to reach 100 MPH somehow...it didn't win, but it didn't break, either!

It's been posted on here before but we won't shout at you if you post the rest of the article.

Sam.

Pretty please? My memory is not so good that I wouldn't love to read it again, 30-something years later.

[mkramer1121]

Hosted right here on our wiki page:
http://sohc4.net/images/b/bf/CB75090HPKitC_11-70.pdf

[Sam Green Racing]

I knew it was kicking around in there somewhere   Thanks M.

Sam.

[Jonesy]

The list of names that I have as on the photograph are Dick Mann, Bob Hansen, Bob Jameson, Ron Robbins, Red Skampser, Tom Tamara and Tom Philips who to the best of my knowledge is no longer with us.

Let's put some faces with the names:



Left to Right: Ron Robbins, Bob Hansen, Glen Bigerton, Bob Jameson, Dick Mann, and Red Skampser.

[mkramer1121]

I knew it was kicking around in there somewhere   Thanks M.

Sam.

I still stare at the page for 20 minutes trying to pickt he title out....And I knew what the title was!

[MoTo-BunnY]

Also, here is the October 1970 Cycle magazine article on a Dick Mann Daytona racer replica - its pretty tech involved. Most of you probably already have this info, I would imagine? - but its a kewl read.

(the perks of selling automotive/motorcycle/construction literature for a living - ALL the reading material you can imagine!. . . lol.)

Honda CB750-90HP Kit - Cycle - OCT 1970.pdf

I remember this article! It's what got me roadracing the 750. Before that, I was puttering around on my CB77, with 337cc Rocky kit, ported, regeared, trying to reach 100 MPH somehow...it didn't win, but it didn't break, either!

It's been posted on here before but we won't shout at you if you post the rest of the article.

Sam.

Pretty please? My memory is not so good that I wouldn't love to read it again, 30-something years later.

You guys aren't too observant. .  .lol. . .its right there, the link is above the picture to download in .pdf!!!   (i.e. the 'Honda CB750-90HP Kit - Cycle - OCT 1970.pdf' part in BOLD even. . .LOL)

Someone is noticing and downloading at least, I checked our server stats last night and I was like wOw!!! from all the traffic downloading that link. 

Also, I just went and looked at the Wiki pages. . . holy moly there are a LOT of kewl things there. .  ..all sorts of articles, tech stuff, etc. I guess I had NO idea on how far it has progressed - THANKS and GREAT JOB folks on everyone who has contributed time and effort there. . . . . I will try and get off my bum and scan in some more stuff, as I have several of the magazines that are on the Wiki but not not in .pdf format yet.

[cben750f0]

i have an original copy of that magazine, its a bloody good read... thanx for the pdf

peace

[754]

Anyone see the NIP CR magneto on ebay?? They look like they would be easier to make than external mags.. the rotor part reminds me of a CB350 part.


NIP= New In package

[Sam Green Racing]

754, I don't think it's quite the same as the CB350 part but you can make the 350 one addapt.

We run a small battery, it weighs the same but dosen't sap any power from the motor.

I know a guy that used one, he said it needed a battery to start it from cold.

Sam.