Author Topic: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.  (Read 267035 times)

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Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #100 on: February 05, 2008, 11:07:19 AM »
Wow, if I've stumped the panel do I get a prize???   ;D  RR
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #101 on: February 05, 2008, 08:18:41 PM »
Wow, if I've stumped the panel do I get a prize???   ;D  RR

NO NO NO ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Some people braced the frames but not everyone did.
I have read that the factory bikes built for Daytona had chrome molly steel frames, but have been told by a person that saw the frames being removed from the production line and taken into the race department before all the none essential brackets were fitted.
If you look at any of the Daytona bikes, you will not see any frame braceing.

This was the reason for starting this thread Ricky, in the hope we could have enticed the people that rode and worked on the bikes to tell it as it was....it didn't work. :( :( :(

Sam. ;)
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #102 on: February 05, 2008, 10:34:23 PM »
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #103 on: February 05, 2008, 10:40:44 PM »
Thanks for responding, Sam.  Well, looks like it's back to the same old chassis mods we've always done... aligning the engine bolts, welding up the spot welds and watching out for stress cracking!  Oh well, I really didn't expect the Big Boys to give up any hard-won secrets but I thought it was worth a shot.

BTW, I picked up a set of old CR750 31mm Keihins recently. Do you have any experience with these tickler carbs, and do you have any idea where I might find rebuild kits or at least gaskets for them or will I have to make my own?  Thanks.  RR

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Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #104 on: February 05, 2008, 10:46:27 PM »
Hi Griff... Well, that's a Rickman CR750 (Cafe Racer 750)rather than a Honda racing type, but I will tell you that Bob Simpson, the builder, is a really nice guy.  I've had the pleasure of both corresponding and talking with him recently. He's done a beautiful job on his Rickman-Honda and is now involved with another exciting restoration, but that's a story for him to tell. RR

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #105 on: February 06, 2008, 09:03:56 AM »

Mitch, I assume bwaller is referring to "Big Benley." Yes, is she still alive and kicking?

Question for this elite group...  I've repeatedly heard mention of strengthening modifications to the early racing CB750 frames.  Were these done and, if so, does anyone know of any document or resource detailing those mods?  Thanks.  RR




I can't speak to Honda's mods, only those of our RR groups of the early 1970s...
We usually sandblasted off the paint, checked the existing welds, often improved them a bit if they were short of the full length, and then added extra plates where the engine is mounted via the flat steel triangles (front lower right, upper rear side). Mine still sports doubled plates there, today. These make a noticeable difference in high speed, sweeping turns. Some riders widened the vertical "struts" in the upper triple tubes, in non-production racing classes, by grinding out the original ones and replacing them with wider ones, about 2" wide. They said it helped in short, choppy-surfaced track turns, holding the forks straighter.

We also added and extra washer on the swingarm bolt, so we could torque it tighter without running out of threads on the bolt.

And, the engine bolts were all switched out to tougher grade 8 or 12 bolts. The stock ones are about a grade 6 strength.

We all added front fork braces. Mine was a second Honda fender brace, with slotted holes and the fender removed, fitted underneath the original one. It makes front wheel removal difficult, and limits the front tire to a 4.10 trigo or 3.25 round profile, because of clearances. But, it really helped.

The stock swingarm was good to 130 MPH, with bronze bushings and tight (0.0006") clearances. Honda sprockets, with their tapered teeth and larger-than-SAE-base-circle diameter, also helped. Timken bearings were used in the wheels, sprocket support, and front steering head, as they have tighter tolerances and harder steels than the Japanese versions.

Spokes were all torqued as evenly as possible, and wheels were trued to 5 thousandths runout, after the rim itself was trued and rechromed (the rims can runout almost .020", stock). Wheel assemblies were balanced to perfection, using stickon flat wheel weights. For a while, Yoshimura sold spokes that had beefier bodies where they went through the hubs: mine still sport those spokes. Sadly, they are not as corrosion-resistant as the stock ones were, though.

All this stuff, taken together, really made the bikes feel smaller, taut, and responsive. Riders who have ridden mine say it feels like a 450 or other small bike.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #106 on: February 06, 2008, 09:53:27 AM »

Yea, Mark!  Now THAT's what I'm talkin' about!!!  Good info!  Thanks!   Any chance on your posting photos of the triangular reinforcing plates?  RR

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #107 on: February 06, 2008, 05:39:10 PM »

Yea, Mark!  Now THAT's what I'm talkin' about!!!  Good info!  Thanks!   Any chance on your posting photos of the triangular reinforcing plates?  RR



They're just the same ones as came with the bikes. I got a couple extra from a scrapyard for mine. the bolts are long enough to accomodate an extra plate, no problem, stock. But, the stock bolts aren't tough enough for 40 ft-lb work: I think stock torque was only 22-26 ft-lbs. on those smaller bolts.

Take a look on your engine mounts and you'll see them: there are 2, one is at the front top right engine mount, the other at the top rear right side. Right now, my front one is part of the touring case guards (long out of production) that have (had) a nice, chromed plate in the same shape. It was supposed to replace the Honda mount, but it is thinner metal than the stock one, so I just added it on top. It seemed to be enough, at the time, to mimic the "racing" mod, but included the case guard. The rear one is a little tougher, as the top mounts on the opposite side of the lower bolt holes. You will find a need to creativly bend the pair of plates at the back, just a little, to make things line up well, like maybe by pulling them up with the bolts. It's worth the effort, though.  ;)

When these bolts are all tighter, with good, thick washers under the bolt heads and thicker plates on the right side, the frame is bolstered by the engine cases, and those cases keep their shape better under high-torque moments because of the frame (sort of symbiotic, for you Trekkers...). I really feel the difference when I throw a leg over someone else's 750, now.

I wish I could find another 750 to build up, some of my friends want to buy one....I'd have fun building a few "Hondaman Specials"....
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #108 on: February 06, 2008, 06:33:25 PM »
Okay, Mark.  I think my feeble senior citizen brain can wrap what's left of itself around your explanation.  I'll take a close look at one the bikes in the shop to see if I really can make sense of it or whether I'm just dreamin' again.

So you want to build one or more "Hondaman Specials", eh?  And you need at least one CB750 to start with, right?

Well, be careful what you wish for because it just might happen....!!!

Thanks for all  your help, Mark. You've been a great service to a lot of participants on this board for a long time.  How many posts have you made?  Now go check the new thread.     ::)   RR
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #109 on: February 06, 2008, 07:41:58 PM »
Ricky, for info on re-build kits for the old CRs, try Mark at M3 racing.

Sam. ;)
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Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #110 on: February 06, 2008, 08:12:11 PM »

Thanks, Sam.  Actually, I left a VM for Mark a few days ago but I haven't heard back yet.  I'll leave another and send an email as well.  I suppose I should check with Vic World too, just in case...  I wish I had the time and resources to get into building a nice CR, but there are too many other priorities right now and I'm a little too "long in the tooth."  I sure do like your bike, though.  Great job!   :o   RR

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Offline ceruzziracing

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #111 on: February 07, 2008, 02:57:53 PM »
I'll start off with an apology for not doing a complete search, but I just found this thread and running out to work. Currently building a '74 750 leaning towards CR style. Haven't been able to find any info yet about how to accurately reproduce the dual front brake setup----suggestions. Again, sorry if I could have found this in the search engine, Thanks Tom Ceruzzi!

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #112 on: February 07, 2008, 03:07:59 PM »
Welcome to the forum Tom. You'll find plenty if you do a search, it's been covered quite a lot.

If you need any further help, just ask away.

Sam. ;)
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Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #113 on: February 13, 2008, 01:40:00 PM »
Do you remember the CB750 DVD I talked about in the open forum? Well, it is made in France, and have images of Hansen and the rest visiting the collector and watching the bike. It has extensive coverage on the racing bike, maybe even more than the roadgoing CB750's. But it is in french.....  :(

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #114 on: February 13, 2008, 04:15:36 PM »
I missed it Raul, I think I clicked on the link and it didn't work and never got back to it.
It's working now and looks OK, would be better in English or American or Ausie or NZ....I speak all those  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. ;)
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Offline Head

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #115 on: February 14, 2008, 10:31:47 PM »
I had one of those factory kits,Ran it in 3 races,was not happy with it,Got a lot of help from old timers who were machinists and engineers,Who were not racers! There were a lot of mods
beyond the factory setup witched proved to be very beneficial But absolutely cost preventive today,at lest to me,dual row cam chain,cam on needle bearings, Yoshi mods, crank,connecting rods,3/4 grind cam,roller rockers, light weight valves,ported,polished,cc'ed head,then flow tested  Thur the 31mm carbs head and header,811cc pistons,under cut gears,close ratio gear box.then changed paths and put that setup in a Rickman frame kit setup! 10,600-11,400 what an incredible power band,Last change went to Morris mag wheels
a bit lighter than the rickman setup.There was more work on it than mentioned too many detail's.It smoked every one at Walkins Glen,Nelson's ledges, Summit point,Charletsville motor
speed way, then back to Summit point where it got killed. But what a ride it was.1973 $11,281 after buying bike.Still have some parts but thats about it from that one. HEAD
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #116 on: February 14, 2008, 10:53:03 PM »
Thanks for joining in Head, that sounded an awesome machine. The one I built (in avatar) produces more power than the Daytona bikes but, only makes power up to stock revs (8,500) It does on the other hand produce tons of torque and is a handfull powering it off the line. I bet yours sounded fabulous at them revs. 8) 8) 8)

Sam ;)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 10:56:53 PM by SamCR750 »
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Offline Head

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #117 on: February 17, 2008, 10:48:29 PM »
My spares, motor,frame,suspension, got the street cloth's put on,Boy what fun it was riding to work at the Honda dealer,13 miles one way,River road down by the steel mills would allow  us speeds of 130. But had to watch out for the coal trucks that would dart out in front of us.
After riding like this pretty much,Come track day we were tight&tuned ready to go. In the days before tickets! About 1974 they actually started to try to catch us,65 mph over the speed limited would get us a $28.50 fine,No points yet then!   
1970x2,71,72,74,75K's,75F-FO-750ss, 2 x 75 GL1000, 77 GL1000,  3x 1981 CB900F, 74 550,  1966 CL77 305, 1967 CL77 305, 1974 MX360 Yamerhamer, 1983 CB1100F RED
NOTICE Due to current financial restraints the
Light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice!! sohc member#1522

Offline benly- ben

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #118 on: February 25, 2008, 01:12:08 PM »
hi sam,
          great write up sam wouldn`t it be great if my dads 750 could do 180mph+.
                                   thanks, ben
p.s it must have been a great team in 1970
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #119 on: February 25, 2008, 03:35:32 PM »
Yer Dad's will do 180 mph Ben...he told me he dreams about it quite offten ::) ::) ::) ::)

Sam. ;) ;D
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Offline benly- ben

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #120 on: March 02, 2008, 11:46:39 AM »
ha ha ha ha ha ;D ;D ;D ben ;)
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Offline voxonda

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #121 on: March 04, 2008, 05:34:51 AM »
Hello,

Am a newbie, from the Netherlands here, just read the whole thread and am impressed. Think there's a lot of knowledge here about the CR's. Have build a, almost ready for the paintjob, 1973 Japauto Endurance replica. Am building a old skool, CB850 sohcTurbo and learning a lot here already.

Cheers, Rob

« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 08:54:14 AM by voxonda »
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Offline benly- ben

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #122 on: March 04, 2008, 01:04:13 PM »
Hi Rob, great bike you`ve got there, keep us posted on that i`ll be happy to see what it comes out like with the new paint.   Ben :) ;) ;D
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Offline voxonda

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #123 on: March 04, 2008, 01:56:39 PM »
Hey Ben, Although a somewhat older picture, with 29 CR's and 19" front this is, about, what it should look like when painted.

Hope you like it.

Cheers, Rob
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: The 1970 Daytona CR750s.
« Reply #124 on: March 04, 2008, 03:39:35 PM »
Welkom Rob, zal uw fiets verbazend wanneer volledig kijken.

Achting Sam. ;D ;D ;D
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike