Author Topic: 2 Dead cylinders  (Read 1777 times)

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Midlife750

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2 Dead cylinders
« on: July 24, 2005, 04:48:03 PM »
Hi All,

    Just got the old bike going after many weeks of hard work. Now, upon initial start-up it seems it only wants to run on cylinders 2 & 3... 1 and 4 are dead.. go figure... Even more disturbing is the pulsing of air OUT of the carb throat... should'nt it be a vacuum?? It seems to idle o.k., but twisting open the throttle kills it.. just bogs it out. I just rebuilt the carbs with 4 new Keyster kits and a total clean job.. including blasting out all those tiny ports with fine wires and air pressure. I don't see any fuel leaks and the bike sounds o.k. .. (no backfiring either out the carb or out the tailpipe... ). What could the problem be? Any suggestions as to where to start? Could the cam be shot or the coil not working?...so I just shut off the garage lights and decided to sleep on it for tonite. Any pointers would be great!

Cheers,
Mike

Offline Gordon

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Re: 2 Dead cylinders
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2005, 04:53:23 PM »
Switch the plug wires between 1-3 and 2-4.  This will tell you right off the bat if it's an ignition or fuel problem.  Then you can go from there. 

Offline Dennis

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Re: 2 Dead cylinders
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2005, 06:33:51 PM »
I didn't see any mention of checking the ignition.
One set up does cylinders 1 & 4, and the other does 2 & 3. What year and model 750 do you have?
What kind of ignition? Points?
If you are going to try Gordons test, don't forget to switch the connections at the coils also or you will be 180 degrees out of time (and you WILL get some interesting backfires from that).

Offline oldbiker

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Re: 2 Dead cylinders
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2005, 12:47:52 AM »
One coil and its points fire cylinders 1 & 4. The other coil and its points fire cylinders 2 & 3 so it sounds very much as though you have a problem with one coil only. Use a meter to check continuity for the set feeding 1 & 4 right through from battery through coil and right down to the points. Make sure the points are clean and are making/breaking contact as they should. Also consider the capacitor across the points. If that is short circuit you will get NO spark and if it is open circuit you will get a weak spark.

Midlife750

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Re: 2 Dead cylinders
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2005, 05:19:40 AM »
Hello and thanks for the tips..

The bike is a '76 CB750F. It was getting late and I just decided to call it quits for the evening. I broke out the manual and did a bit of reading though... I suppose I'll have a look at the coil... The manual is'nt too clear with the test procedure on the coil, so will the typical coil test procedures used for old cars with points work the same? I am familiar with working on cars, but not bikes. (I have'nt seen points since my first jalopy.. a '67..**LOL***) A friend suggested starting at the coils and working down to the points.. I previously looked the the points and they looked fairly new with not much wear.. but perhaps I need to take a closer look. Should I rig up a test light to the points to see it the light goes on and off as the crank rotates around? Thanks for your help!  Regards, Mike

Offline oldbiker

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Re: 2 Dead cylinders
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2005, 05:24:25 AM »
A test light will certainly help to see if the points are operating. Have you isolated which coil affects your dead cylinders yet?

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: 2 Dead cylinders
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2005, 05:27:35 AM »
Oldbiker makes a good point. Even after cleaning every single connector on mine after a long storage, no indication of ignition. The points "looked" good. I took some fine emory cloth and folded it over and dragged it between both sets of points. Worked like a charm, it fired up. Must have been an accumulation of crud on point faces or something. So, start at the points and work back through the ignition system and then electrics if need be.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Midlife750

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Re: 2 Dead cylinders
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2005, 02:45:27 PM »
       Update...     


        Adjusted cam chain tensioner and adjusted valves... not too bad of a job. Cleaned the points with a few swipes of emery paper folded in half. Still nothing... the engine started with a shot of ether.. still just 2 and 3 working.. tried to switch plug wires over to reach 1, but wouldn't make it.. then tried 3 to 4.. this reached but the end came out of the boot... A quick tap on the starter and 4 made some noise.. not good, but it fired... Now another problem.. This coil has the high tension leads moulded in.. where do you get replacements and/or which would be a good swap-in candidate? (Strating to get low on bucks, so I hope there is a cheap alternative available)  The other coil (1 and 4 coil), has push-in boots at the coil... (make/year?..) Also, while it was barely running I noticed a weak yellow arc flying off the 1 and 4 point set to the breaker plate... something shorted somewhere... no evidence of spark at the 1-4 point set when it was running.  Someone at work mentioned electronic ignition to eliminate all this point BS... any sources for this set-up/kit? Any help would be appreciated!! Mike

Offline Dennis

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Re: 2 Dead cylinders
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2005, 10:38:02 PM »
Yes there are in fact several electronic ignitions available for these machines, however I thought you said that you are on a budget! Electronic ignition, 2 new coils and wires .......$$$$.
Now the coil with the molded in wires would seem to be original, the other is later, probably 1980 or newer and most likely a substantially lower primary impedance than the original coil. If you want to do this on a budget, get a good set of used original coils and set up your points correctly. There are still many of us still running points type ignition here. There are some techniques for replacing wires on the old coils, see the FAQ's or search the board, the answers are there. New member Polish Beer just came up with a new way of doing this. If you would prefer new coils, original style coils are available from several sources probably for substantially less cost than high performance aftermarket items.
And as far as the points as concerned, I always check for resistance when resetting used points, because one time and only one time, I was attempting to get a bike started which had not run in many years. I cleand and gapped points, no spark. Checked spark plug, wiring, no spark, checked coil, condenser, kill switch etc and still no spark. This was a Sunday. Tuesday when the bike shops reopened (don't ask me why every damn bike shop in NJ is closed on Monday - I don't know) I tracked down a set of points , installed and gapped them. And then it sparked. The point is that even though the contact areas were cleaned, somewhere in that point set after sitting for all of those years, there was enough invisible oxidation or corrosion to prevent it from working. After the bike started, I decided to measure the resistance of the old point set, as I recall it was on the order of 2 or 3 M-ohm. Now I measure before knocking my brains out!!