Topic: Investment?

[Dawdlin Dog]

I never realised a sandcast was this valuable. Has the buyer made a good investment or paid ott?  Gorgeous bike whatever.   

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280176438514&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018


Forgot link.   I'm a bit puddled

[tramp]

its a good investment if the buyer thinks it is
would i buy for that price?
i believe that a pound is about twice the val;ue of a dollar
which means that the bike sold for 24000 dollars
i dont think so

[mikedialect]

I saw someone here had built one from nos parts and had no miles on the speedo. I can't remember who off the top of my head, but I thought that was really cool- even a better color Not sure what the price tag was on that to build!


then again, for 24k I could buy a really nice 71 Chevelle. Not perfect, but really nice.

[Raul CB750K1]

Ok, let's put things straight. The guy spends 30K + shipping to UK on an old bike, rides it for 14 miles and then stores it in his living room. Now he sells it "reluctantly" because of the divorce.

Does he really wonder why his wife gets divorced? What would your wife do if you spend 30K on a bike you want to store on your living room?

[Terry in Australia]

I saw someone here had built one from nos parts and had no miles on the speedo.

Yeah mate, it's the same bike, built by Vic World mostly from NOS parts. Nice, but most of us would rather have a "survivor", than a bike with no "history". Cheers, Terry.

[CrisPDuk]

I seem to recall 736cc built one of his (the blue one?) from all NOS parts too Terry, just to see if he could

That's definitely more than I'd spend on a nearly 40 year old bike (I wouldn't spend that on a new one!), and I'm definitely not one for museum pieces, but hey whatever floats your boat

[736cc]

  A perfect restoration usually garners top-dollar as compared to perfect low-mile unrestored, which is just about impossible to find anymore. Nice originals are cool to enthusiasts but the buyers w/ the really big bucks don't want to or have time or would actually do a complete correct restoration. They want a finished piece in eyeball-popping concours condition thats museum-quality and will win any show.
  Investment? Not all motorcycles are investments that will go up, hold, or not lose value. CBX's, RC30's, Vincents, and sandcast CB750's are a few on that short "A" list.
  Vic World was selling his sandcasts 2 years ago for $22,500; that may be what that museum paid then. His price is now $29,500. And he's running out of engines, frames and stock.
   Spending over $10,000 on a professional sandcast restoration is ez, and 100-200 hours labor. From a business viewpoint, a % mark-up on parts is needed, plus X amount $/ hour labor.

[6pkrunner]

  A perfect restoration usually garners top-dollar as compared to perfect low-mile unrestored, which is just about impossible to find anymore. Nice originals are cool to enthusiasts but the buyers w/ the really big bucks don't want to or have time or would actually do a complete correct restoration. They want a finished piece in eyeball-popping concours condition thats museum-quality and will win any show.
 

Agreed. For history to play a part, that history would have to contain ownership by a "famous person" or a person that is instantly recognized either by themselves (celebrity) or by the involvement connected to the item being purchased. Mike Hailwood may have no power or sway of 90% of the planet, but for those that want one of his bikes.....
And where value rises many of those now drawn to the item are not interested in the resurrection or construction of such. The collector car market has already gone through this. When I first joined the car sites the majority of guys swung their own wrenches. Not so any more. A lot of people have a lot of money and don't mind in the least about tossing it around to buy a turn-key vehicle.
The downside of all this is the supply and demand aspect and the cyclic nature of things. Right now the collector car market is taking a bad kick for the last year or so. Market conditions, too much hype from the auction houses, people moving on...whatever.
But there are a lot of people holding two years ago million dollar cars that are now nowhere near that in value.
Bikes at the Vic World level are subject to the same treatment. 12,000 pounds today maybe not so tomorrow. But a true collector is resiliant to market shifts - or he's just a twitchy speculator trying to make some scratch.

[mikedialect]

I seem to recall 736cc built one of his (the blue one?) from all NOS parts too Terry, just to see if he could

That's definitely more than I'd spend on a nearly 40 year old bike (I wouldn't spend that on a new one!), and I'm definitely not one for museum pieces, but hey whatever floats your boat

yeah, that's the one I was thinking of

[754]

In the vintage bike world the made up bikes do generally not bring the highest prices. Not that there is a shortage of people to buy them.

Right now since I came on here in Sept, I have seen  a few bikes done this way discussed... so there may in fact be way more perfecty restored or made up out of NOS bikes than originals.

So what is rarer?? the best original you can find.

Will give an example.  A collecter in Ontario has a 13 harley twin, original paint and a few dealer installed options. It is the most original example to be found. I went up to about 100 K on ebay, did not meet reserve. There is no way any ones restoration would generate this kind of price..

At the end of the day  an excellent unrestored will comand the highest prices.. simply because it is the rarest..

I have watched the prices for years and have had projects as early as an 07 Indian. I also am pretty close to one of the most knowledgable collecters of early bikes in Noth America. I have been watching early racers (boardtrackers) for quite a while and the made up ones with no history are not bringing the high prices..

[Terry in Australia]

I agree mate, a resto made from several cannibalised beaters, or in VW's case, piles of unrelated new parts that sat on the shelves of many dealers for 38 years, will never command (and hold) the same prices as perfect low mileage bikes that still have all their original parts and documentation, and in some cases, the OEM air still in the original tires, ha ha!

Anyone can restore a bike (as most of us know, most of us have) but it's a rare and interesting find when a "mint" K0 that's been parked in a garage covered in a blanket suddenly turns up. It didn't have to belong to Mike Hailwood or Elvis, it just had to "be there" in a time when some of the potential buyers, weren't. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a bike as nice as that VW unit, but I'd destroy it's "collector value" right away, by RIDING it home, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

[techy5025]

Value is an interesting thing. It probably only has meaning when you buy, sell, or when you make your insurance payments. In the case of my sandcast, the buying and restoring is over and, as I tend to never sell stuff, value has less meaning.

I will never own a "living room" museum piece and ride all the bikes on a regular basis. The main worry is in damaging some of the hard to get pieces as they are becoming very difficult to get...at any price....especially the plastic stuff. For that reason, I tend to use the CBR as a "beater" and try to keep the mileage off the K0's.

Jim

[CrisPDuk]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a bike as nice as that VW unit, but I'd destroy it's "collector value" right away, by RIDING it home, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

Exactly my thinking Terry, IMO it's borderline criminal to own something designed to be used yet not use it


In terms of value, my 600 quid '78 550 is worth more than that Sandcast, purely because no amount of money will persuade me to part with it

[DammitDan]

I will never own a "living room" museum piece and ride all the bikes on a regular basis. The main worry is in damaging some of the hard to get pieces as they are becoming very difficult to get...at any price....especially the plastic stuff. For that reason, I tend to use the CBR as a "beater" and try to keep the mileage off the K0's.

I could never bring myself to destroy the resale value of a sandcast by riding it.  This is why I'm afraid I will never own a collectors piece...  I'd rather have the $30,000 in my pocket to restore a dozen more bikes than twiddle away the resale value by putting miles on the clock.

[techy5025]

Perhaps the answer is to stop a restoration short of "museum" quality so you won't degrade the value by riding it. People who are looking to own a sandcast (or similar type bike) are not going to be deterred by a few miles on a somewhat lower quality bike.

Jim

[754]

The made up one is the lower quality bike.

More perfect yes, but not as good an original example.

[754]

So when you start seeing things like powder coating, blanchard ground rotors.. is that restoration or a modern assembly of a vintage bike???

[techy5025]

754,

....an interesting point. Any restoration will involve some concessions. I doubt if you can get original black Honda paint to restore the frame, for example.

There is always a tendency to "improve" on the original design. I chose to change to stainless brake lines for safety reasons. Also, I power coated the frame parts and went with stainless spokes for durability reasons. Everything else, I believe is original or NOS parts. Definitely not "museum" quality, but a bike that looks good and one that I don't hesitate to ride. I'll let my estate worry about the value of the bike. 

Jim