Author Topic: What is the world coming to?  (Read 7734 times)

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Offline dpen

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What is the world coming to?
« on: December 03, 2007, 03:04:57 AM »
One of the drivers at work has whacked down a deposit on a new bike.

A 1300cc Yamaha with a readout on the dash to let you know which of the seven (7) gears you're in.......WAIT...it gets better - there is a switch on the dash so you can choose between manual or automatic transmission????????

Offline 6pkrunner

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2007, 06:45:55 AM »
For these things to endure there has to be market demand for them. CB750 automatic anyone? Suzuki rotary?
If there is demand it will continue. No sales and things get reconsidered quickly.

but the above sounds like two items to lure in the novice or new biker.

Offline ekim98

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 07:12:23 AM »
Welcome to the 21st century and the lazy,spoiled american "I want everything,I can afford it". :( :(
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Offline my78k

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2007, 07:36:57 AM »
I think the gear indicator is a good idea...the manual tranny tho seems a bit gimmicky. Although in heavy traffic it might be ok. Would make my clutch hand less sore on the brutal  DVP (a highway on which it is faster to walk than drive!) during my ride in to work. It is actually so bad that I don't even enjoy the ride in and usually take mass transit or my car.

Dennis

Offline mikedialect

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2007, 07:43:38 AM »
enticing a novice rider into a 1300cc bikes sounds like a pretty bad idea to me ;)
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Offline 6pkrunner

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2007, 07:53:53 AM »
When I started biking, 50ccs were the starter bikes. Now 750 to 900 are listed as starter bikes - in a lot of the papers and buy-and-sells around here. Seen lots of guys (and gals) perched on brand new Harleys with the matching total Harley leather outfits. I'd wager some haven't seen more than a thousand miles, if that, on a bike. So if an auto and a gear display will make some more sales - don't bet your life against it.

Offline mikedialect

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 08:25:50 AM »
When I started biking, 50ccs were the starter bikes. Now 750 to 900 are listed as starter bikes - in a lot of the papers and buy-and-sells around here. Seen lots of guys (and gals) perched on brand new Harleys with the matching total Harley leather outfits. I'd wager some haven't seen more than a thousand miles, if that, on a bike. So if an auto and a gear display will make some more sales - don't bet your life against it.


I rode a 71 cb350 this summer after I stripped a lot of weight off of it and I thought that bike was dangerous!
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Offline 754

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2007, 09:19:22 AM »
I can just hear the nOObs chatting after a 47 mile  :o (gasp) ride. On 1 or 1.3 liter "Starter Bikes"

You know that felt good, I mean  fir the first time it wasnt scary.!

Yeah, I actually am starting feel in control..once in a while..

Me too, my sphincter actually let go of the seat a few times!!  :o

Dya think by the end of the year, we will be ready for a big ride, like to..(insert town 234 miles distant)

I dont know man that is a long ways, lets use the trailer..

Trailer you figure?? I use it when the bike makes a funny noise to take it to the dealer..

Well it might rain, better take them on the trailer to be safe..


 ;D ;D ;D
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Offline S-Dog

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2007, 09:49:19 AM »
I can just hear the nOObs chatting after a 47 mile  :o (gasp) ride. On 1 or 1.3 liter "Starter Bikes"

You know that felt good, I mean  fir the first time it wasnt scary.!

Yeah, I actually am starting feel in control..once in a while..

Me too, my sphincter actually let go of the seat a few times!!  :o

Dya think by the end of the year, we will be ready for a big ride, like to..(insert town 234 miles distant)

I dont know man that is a long ways, lets use the trailer..

Trailer you figure?? I use it when the bike makes a funny noise to take it to the dealer..

Well it might rain, better take them on the trailer to be safe..


 ;D ;D ;D

HAHAHA....

My Dad started to riding this year for the first time.  I made him buy a used(2002) 750cc bike.  He is 6'4" and 300lbs.  But he is better off learning on a bike that isnt freakishly fast or huge.  He has done about 8k miles this yeah on it and is NOW ready to move up. 

I just dont get how people stert on 1200+ bikes when they havent even ridden yet...
Just make sure the bike has engine guards.... they will be used.  ;D
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2007, 10:16:01 AM »
I don't understand why it is always assumed that you must "move up".  If a 50cc bike is fine for you, then who says you must you move up?  It seems to me that there's nothing to it but one-upsmanship.
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Offline S-Dog

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2007, 05:53:45 PM »
He wants to move up because he wants to have a little more power when riding 2 up.  And his bike is a little small for his height.

But I understand what you are saying in general.... I have been riding on and off for 10 years and I own a 750 and a 650... I just bought the 650 for 2 up riding(silverwing) and it will be PLENTY...
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Offline mattcb350f

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2007, 07:06:33 PM »
...started on an 80cc Honda and rode that in the dirt till I was 17, then figured I was skilled enough to go bigger and bought a 400. just got my license last year and decided, just to play it safe since I had never ridden on the road, to get a bike under 400cc, and got the 350F.

However, when I was taking the Motorcycle training course on the weekend this summer, several, and I mean at least 10 out of the 60 some people taking the course rode there on their new Harleys and big Honda's...with having just got their learners permit (M1 license in Canada).
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Offline 754

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2007, 07:26:10 PM »
I got to confess, I have had a few lean years.. well maybe a sixpack or more of lean years.

Sometimes I rode a bicycle to town everyday 5 miles. Then I thought hey I cant afford a car or truck but I got a moped with reggie, so I insured that. At that time I had not been riding my 750 for quite awhile. But I had been to Europe  a few years before that and mopeds were plentiful. Anyway long story shortened, I rode the moped for a couple 6 month stints.

Not having been in the wind a while it was actually pretty nice.. s.l.o.w but still riding. Then I realized that it is sort of ok for basic transportation, but freaking slow.. well it only has about 3 hp. But I thought, hey you know a 250 or something with about 15 hp would be totally adequate for just getting around. Now I know how come there is so many small bikes in other countries.

Up here insurance is not cheap ,but the little bikes are reasonable.

But over here(North America) bigger is better, you dont need a big bike, you just think you need one. Look at Goldwings running around town doing errands, is that overkill or what.

After going for a bit of a ride to Bonneville in Sept I finally realized a CB 750 mildly hopped up is pretty good still for hitting the highway. I am not saying I will never get a biger modern bike , but I dont lose sleep over not having one either..
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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline my78k

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2007, 09:31:49 PM »
I disagree...my CBR is perfect...I like to ride to the cottage etc and wouldn't want to do the long highway rides on a smaller bike. A 250 on the 401 (main highway) is suicide...if you can't even keep up how ya gonna accelerate away from something????

Sure a noob doesn't need a VTX but at the same time wanting something with a little get up and go isn't always about one upmanship or showing off!

Dennis

Offline 754

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2007, 10:48:24 PM »
What I was trying to say was  a 250 would be OK for town traffic, not highway use.. or inner city heavy traffic.

And that the 750 was ok for one up hiway riding, not a bonestocker, a 836cc with a good cam header, and maybe carbs..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2007, 10:49:12 PM »
I let my buddy ride my 750 back in 2001. He thought it was fun. Next thing you know he has to have something bigger than even my Fat Boy. You know how buddies are!  ::) He has, for his first bike, a VTX1800. I gotta tell you, after the first time I tipped over the Fat Boy and I picked it up by myself I thought it was heavy but I was embarrassed enough to do it. Have you tried to pick up a VTX1800?! I'd like to see 1 person do it! It's kinda humorous to see him let that big monster tip over and just snicker at him until we both strain our backs lifting it up. Last time he crossed up the front wheel on a slow downhill turn into a parking garage. Tipped with full luggage,etc on a downhill slope. Now, that big ass houseboat of a bike weighs about 900lbs without anything on it. Took 3 of us to get it back on 2 wheels. Just glad it was resting on the bag and highway bar. I think he must be compensating  ;D
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Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2007, 11:37:21 PM »
The bike you are talking about is the new Yamaha FJR1300, no starter bike but a touring bike. It is groundbreaking because it has no clutch; it has an electrical clutch instead. You can shift at the touch of a button, or if you like the old way, shift with a pedal -that has no mechanical linkage but is a pushbutton too-. It's not proving very popular among users; maybe your co-worker should have read the reviews before putting money down.



From Yamaha webpage


The world’s first semi-automatic sports tourer - Yamaha Chip Controlled Shift (YCC-S)

Featuring our innovative new Yamaha Chip Controlled Shift (YCC-S) system for clutchless gear changes, the latest generation FJR 300AS underlines Yamaha’s ongoing commitment to offering our customers revolutionary new technology that offers tangible benefits. The 2006 Yamaha FJR 300AS is the first tourer to feature an electronically-controlled gear shifting system. This revolutionary new Yamaha Chip Controlled Shift (YCC-S) technology represents a major step forward in motorcycle design, and is designed to make the FJR riding experience even more relaxed and enjoyable.

No clutch lever;

The only obvious external difference between the FJR 300AS and other manual models is the clutch lever. Or rather, the absence of the clutch lever. To change gear on the new ‘AS’ model, the rider can either use a handlebar-mounted switch, or a foot operated switch. The YCC-S system incorporates two electronically-controlled actuators – one for clutch operation and the other one for gear shifting. The gear shifting operation is fully electronically controlled using a dedicated ECU which determines the ideal clutch and shift operation, and gear changing takes place within 0. -0.2 seconds of the rider’s command.

The advantages of YCC-S;

The first thing to underline is that YCC-S is not an automatic shift mechanism, as it requires input from the rider, who still has total control over where and when gear changes are made. Rather, it is best described as a semi-automatic system in which the physical effort of gear shifting is virtually eliminated, allowing the rider to enjoy the FJR 300AS’s class-leading sports touring performance to the full. As many long distance riders will know, the clutch hand and left foot take the strain in a wide range of riding conditions – from ‘stop-go’ urban riding through to twisty and hilly secondary roads when constant shifting is often required. What YCC-S does is to greatly reduce the effort required to change gear, and by doing so, this system enhances overall riding pleasure and also reduces rider fatigue.

Another advantage of YCC-S is that the ECU, which ensures optimal clutch and gear shifting operation, delivers exceptionally smooth gear changes, and this makes for increased levels of passenger comfort. The YCC-S system The YCC-S system is essentially similar to the electronic shifting systems used on F race cars and a on number prestigious sports cars. However, the technology has been totally redesigned by Yamaha in order to optimise the weight and size of the system to suit its application to a two wheeler. The entire YCC-S system weighs just 4kg, and its effect on handling performance is minimised by positioning the heaviest components near to the machine’s centre of gravity.

Hand shift or foot shift options;

The YCC-S system allows gear shifting to be carried out either by hand or foot operation. The new FJR 300AS is equipped with a hand shift switch located on the left side handlebar switchgear, as well as a conventional-looking gearshift pedal which operates an internal shift switch.

By selecting ‘hand shift mode’, the rider can shift up with the left forefinger and down with the left thumb, or the rider can opt to change gear by using the gearshift pedal. Although this gearshift pedal looks like a conventional system, it actually operates an internal electronic switch, and actually has no mechanical linkage with the transmission.

YCC-S System Design;

The ECU at the heart of the YCC-S system is programmed to evaluate and compile all of the data being transmitted by various sensors which constantly monitor engine rpm, main axle rpm, running speed, gear position and throttle position (TPS). All of this information is used by the ECU to calculate the precise timing of every command in order to ensure smooth upshifting and downshifting.

Whenever the rider chooses to change gear, the system actuates the clutch pushrod mechanism to adjust the clutch to the appropriate position, while in the shift system a shift actuator and shift rod ensure smooth engaging of the dogs. Another important feature of the YCC-S system is that during upshifting the system automatically optimises ignition timing and engine rpm for more efficient gear changes.

YCC-S benefits;

Elimination of clutch operation = reduced rider fatigue
Smooth acceleration and deceleration = improved comfort
Seamless gear shifting = better passenger comfort
Foot operation can be eliminated = no more blemishes on shoes
ECU chooses optimal shift timing = more enjoyable riding
FJR1300A - Ne Features For 2006;

ABS with Combination Brake System fitted as standard equipment
Combination Brake System (CBS ABS) activated by rear brake
Sophisticated new aerodynamic bodywork
New longer 567 mm swingarm
Side cases fitted as standard equipment
Increased adjustability of the electronically-controlled windscreen
Air intake in upper cowl for reduced negative pressure in cockpit
New middle cowl with two-step/30 mm width adjustability range
Larger air intakes for improved air management
New curved radiator with twin ring fans
Improved honeycomb catalyser
New heater-equipped O2 sensor
Progressive throttle action
2.7% higher overall gear ratio
Heat insulation on front underside of fuel tank
Three-step / mm of front/rear handlebar adjustability
Two-step / 20 mm adjustable seat height
Newly designed slimmer rear frame
Revised passenger footrest position
Stylish new multi-function instrumentation
Redesigned one litre capacity storage box with 2 V DC output
White flasher lenses front and rear
Newly designed headlight and tail light
New easily accessible headlight beam adjuster knob
Redesigned horizontally-retractable rear view mirrors
Wide selection of accessories available
FJR1300AS - Exclusive Features For 2006;

The semi-automatic FJR 300AS model is equipped with the following exclusive new features in addition to all the new features that are listed for the FJR 300A model:

YCC-S – Yamaha Chip Controlled Shift
Semi-automatic ‘clutchless’ transmission
Hand shift and foot shift options
Heated handlebar grips
Available colours for both FJR1300A and FJR1300AS;

Ocean Depth Blue
Desert Metallic
Silver Storm
FJR1300A/FJR1300AS: The world’s premier sports tourers;

When it appeared on the scene in 2000, the Yamaha FJR 300 took the motorcycling world by storm. Faster, sleeker and more exciting than any other machine in the class – and with outstanding sports handling performance and high levels of comfort to match – the FJR was a revelation.

Featuring sophisticated new styling, improved comfort and the latest braking systems, the 2006 FJR 300A is destined to maintain its position as Europe’s favourite sports tourer. And with its advanced new YCC-S electronically-controlled shifting system, the new FJR 300AS brings F car technology to the sports tourer rider for the very first time.

Engine Type - Liquid cooled, in-line 4-cylinder, 16-valves, DOHC
Displacement - 1,298 cc
Bore and stroke - 79.0 x 66.2 mm
Compression Ratio - 10.8:1
Max. power - 105.5 kW (143.5 HP) @ 8,000 rpm
Max. torque - 134.4 Nm (13.7 kg-m) @ 7,000 rpm
Lubrication - Wet sump
Carburettor/Fuel supply - Electronic fuel injection
Clutch type - Wet, multiple-disc
Ignition - TCI
Starter system - Electric
Transmission - Constant mesh, 5-speed
Final transmission - Shaft
Primary reduction ratio - 1.563
Secondary reduction ratio - 2.773
Gear ratio - 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th 2.529, 1.773, 1.348, 1.077, 0.929
Chassis;

Frame - Aluminium, diamond shaped
Front suspension - Telescopic forks, Ø 48 mm
Front wheel travel - 135 mm
Rear suspension - Link-type swingarm
Rear wheel travel - 125 mm
Caster angle - 26°
Trial - 109 mm
Front brake - Dual discs, Ø 320 mm
Rear brake - Single disc, Ø 282 mm
Front tyre - 120/70 ZR17M/C (58W)
Rear tyre - 180/55 ZR17M/C (73W)
Dimensions;

Overall length - 2,240 mm
Overall width - 745 mm
Overall height - 1,330 mm
Seat height - 805 mm
Wheelbase - 1,550 mm
Min. ground clearance - 135 mm
Dry weight - A–264 kg/AS–268kg
Fuel tank capacity - (reserve) 25 litres
Oil capacity - 4.9 litres
Specifications are subject to change without notice, in accordance with national regulation and legislations


Offline Quail "Owner of the comfortable k8"

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2007, 04:35:44 AM »
I don't understand why it is always assumed that you must "move up".  If a 50cc bike is fine for you, then who says you must you move up?  It seems to me that there's nothing to it but one-upsmanship.


This is a fact.  I found myself looking to buy a 2000 Goldwing and than looked at the other bikes like it.  Rode a few and one day ithit me that I did not like anything at all about the bikes.  I was just moving up like I thought i was suppose to.
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Offline S-Dog

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2007, 05:30:14 AM »
Semi-autos have been around in 4 wheelers for years.... VERY handy..  Im not sure about a bike...

Not being able to have the rear wheel, free wheel(clutch in of neutral) makes my butt pucker up a little.
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1983 GL650 Silverwing Restore project with 17k miles

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Offline my78k

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2007, 06:47:23 AM »
Actually combined with a slipper clutch that thing could be some fun....especially if it has some form of ignition interrupt so you could hold it wide open while up shifting!!!

What I don't get is why they are trying to dumb down or take away from the experience of riding a bike. Where I see this technology fitting better is in the scooter market allowing people to get comfortable before moving up to real bikes. It would certainly make scooter riding more fun and do away with that whole centifugal clutch etc...

Dennis

Offline 754

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2007, 07:30:57 AM »
Bcause, they are trying to cater to the yet unsold masses.. that would like a bike except................

they dont feel comfortable on a bike but with that shifter(and or other features) they would have more confidence..

 In the general scheme a few manufacturers are thinking to tap that potential market (they have cash) Look at the BRP SPYDER, and Harley has a 3 wheeler in the works as well..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline ekim98

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2007, 07:52:59 AM »
If they would put a cell phone, DVD player and make it all wheel drive and call it a suv crossover it would get the soccer moms to ride. ::) ::) ::)
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78 750k  cafe bike sort of
67 305  Superhawk (working project)

Offline 754

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2007, 07:54:58 AM »
They are working on it!!!
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline ekim98

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2007, 07:58:50 AM »
They are working on it!!!

At least we might be able to thin the gene pool a little bit after it comes out. :o :o
Patriot Guard Rider - KY. Ride with Respect

78 750k  cafe bike sort of
67 305  Superhawk (working project)

Online Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: What is the world coming to?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2007, 09:46:41 AM »
If they would put a cell phone, DVD player and make it all wheel drive and call it a suv crossover it would get the soccer moms to ride. ::) ::) ::)

Geez, that's all we need. As if it isn't dangerous enough on the street trying to avoid all those crazy women driving their urban assault vehicle vans and SUVs at 90mph while talking on the cell phone, putting on their makeup, eating their donuts and looking at the brats in the backseat as they run the redlight.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)