Topic: Cylinder Dowel Pin removal?

[dummkauf]

Are they all supposed to come out??  I have 4, 1 in each corner, that will not budge and i want to make sure that these guys are actually supposed to come out.  So far I have been soaking them in penetrating oil for the last day and they still won't budge.  I haven't tried heat yet since they are still covered in the penetrating oil I figured oil and a flame wouldn't be a good combination    I'm getting ready to send my cases and cylinders off to the machine shop for a good blasting and a dip and I need to know if these guys are permenantly attached or i just need to keep trying to rip them out.

[wrenchmuch]

They do come out but I've had a couple that needed so much persuasion that they couldn't be reused
You can still get all the small ones for the covers from Honda and the dowels where the cylinders meet the crankcase but the head to cylinder dowels are no longer available .
Try to be nice to them    Keep trying penetrating oil on them and maybe shock them by placing a piece of hardwood on them and hitting them with a hammer . Hope this helps.
Mike

[MCRider]

Yes they do come out, but they do get stuck. I had some pictures of a technique i stumbled across in my build Phaedrus II: Page #5 almost to the bottom:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=36459.60

Essentially, after soaking (I used PB Blaster which is the best IMO) I used the first larger drill bit than the ID of the dowel. On a variable speed cordless. Enter the dowel very slowly and hold the drill very firmly. Once the bit caught the dowel spun right out from perpendicular lines of force to friction principle.

[dummkauf]

Well my next question then......any harm in leavinig them in and sending it on its way to the machine shop for a good cleaning and bead blasting?  They've gotten somewhat scratched up from my pliers but otherwise are still round and in tact, and as long as they find in their corresponding holes I'm guessing that it wouldn't make any difference if they came out or just stayed where they are?

[MCRider]

Well my next question then......any harm in leavinig them in and sending it on its way to the machine shop for a good cleaning and bead blasting?  They've gotten somewhat scratched up from my pliers but otherwise are still round and in tact, and as long as they find in their corresponding holes I'm guessing that it wouldn't make any difference if they came out or just stayed where they are?

Truth be told... probably all right to leave them in.

[MRieck]

OK....want to know the real secret?? Take a drill bit about 1/8" diameter, drill the dowel perpendicular to the block (at the bottom) straight through, insert a piece of rod through the 2 holes, put a big punch from the top to the bottom and whack it. Use fluid etc....it certainly helps. You don't ruin the surface..... It couldn't be easier....think about it. I can provide pics if it isn't clear enough. I know....I'm smart.....( just like Fredo)

[MRieck]

They do come out but I've had a couple that needed so much persuasion that they couldn't be reused
You can still get all the small ones for the covers from Honda and the dowels where the cylinders meet the crankcase but the head to cylinder dowels are no longer available .
Try to be nice to them    Keep trying penetrating oil on them and maybe shock them by placing a piece of hardwood on them and hitting them with a hammer . Hope this helps.
Mike

Really?? What size are they??

[754]

Ha.. Now for the real trick..


I just take a tap close to the inner size, start to thread the tap in till it catches, then pull upwards while turning... then reuse forever..


If they are really stuck, let the tap cut in a little, you dont want a tap that cuts anywhere near full threadas it will cut thru. Then thread in a bolt or stud with a washer and a sleeve  or tube, that is the length of dowel sticking out +the dowel length. Then using the nut and washer against the sleeve, tighten the nut, sucking out the dowel..


I thought everyone knew that....

[oldbiker]

If you or a friend have a lathe, you can make replacements out of any reasonable steel. They are only to maintain alignment and do not need any great strength.

[davesprinkle]

Use an easy-out.

[MRieck]

Enco and other suppliers offer many metric dowels too. PS....use some never seize when you install them.

[wrenchmuch]

  .

They do come out but I've had a couple that needed so much persuasion that they couldn't be reused
You can still get all the small ones for the covers from Honda and the dowels where the cylinders meet the crankcase but the head to cylinder dowels are no longer available .
Try to be nice to them    Keep trying penetrating oil on them and maybe shock them by placing a piece of hardwood on them and hitting them with a hammer . Hope this helps.
Mike

Really?? What size are they??

The sizes I couldn't get from Honda were 12x15 and 12x22 . I tried Bike bandit as well . Most came out for me without a problem . Next time I'll try some of the ideas from this post .

[Patrick]

I found 12X22 dowels at a local dirt bike shop. They're actually pretty common. To get the 12X15 I started with two 12X22 and a dremel tool with a cutting blade.

[roy747]

On my CB750F3 rebuild, I just left the ones that were stuck alone and cleaned up as necessary. Why remove them, leave them alone.

Roy747

[RRRToolSolutions]

One of my favorite tools in my box is my "blind-bearing removal kit". You use it to remove bearings in blind spots - where you don't have access to the backside to drive it out - you know, the front and rear wheel bearings, the generator and timing bearings inside the Suzuki GT750 left housing - and those locator pins. I can't get the small 7mm pins out with it, but the 10, 12, and 14mm have all come out perfectly using the smallest internal vise. The nice thing about the puller set is that it does not do any harm to the exterior and pulls the pin out of the case evenly and with a "shock" so there is far less pull required.

You need one of these tools in your box!

Regards,
Gordon

[754]

Is it cheaper than a tap and a bolt?

Then blind pullers usually work good, on these dowels though there is very little lip to catch. If they contact the side they can take material off. I made a blind puller to pull out HD dowels but they are thicker.

I really think these were considered throwaways, but I gues supply ran out on some sizes.

[MRieck]

Is it cheaper than a tap and a bolt?

Then blind pullers usually work good, on these dowels though there is very little lip to catch. If they contact the side they can take material off. I made a blind puller to pull out HD dowels but they are thicker.

I really think these were considered throwaways, but I guess supply ran out on some sizes.

My thought. Drill, pin and bang them out with no bore distortion. Anything you do....meaning taps, EZ outs etc will distort the dowel. They are pretty delicate. You should remove some from FJ1200's etc that are exposed to the elements. You need heat, drilling through, lube and a punch....and then some.

[754]

Right size (sharp)tap wont distort it, if it starts to put actual pressure on it, it simply turns. Lifting while turning will pull it right out, leaving the outside minty..

[dummkauf]

Well i got the little buggers out, and only wrecked one.  I fortunatley have a girlfriend with a father with a tool for damn near everything in his overly cluttered garage    So after hauling the clylinder over to his house he had some tool that threaded into the center(similar to a tap, but it was something else, can't remember what he called it) that threaded the inside of the dowel enough to grab it and twisted 3 out of the 4 loose.  the 4th refused to twist so after threadying his tool in we wound up clamping a vice grip onto the end and hitting the vice grip with a hammer.  Took about a dozen times of reattaching the vice gribs put that little bugger finally came out.  This last one that was such a pain mainly because I had cracked the side of the dowel with my needle nose pliers back at home when I first tried pulling it out.

After examining the dowels they all appeared very rusted which I am assuming is what had them cemented into the cylinder. 

Thanks for all the input on this.  I originally headed over to the almost-in-laws(been with my girlfriend for a few years now) since I knew he had a die & tap set to try out, which was suggested by the knowledgeable folks on this site

As always, the help is appreciated, and I will likely need a lot more of it once I actually start putting everything back together 

[dummkauf]

Another bit of info I found for those who may or may not have these same issues with the dowels.

You can purchase replacement dowels from here: http://www.motogrid.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/default.aspx
Only $0.99 each!

just an FYI since I've been told these are unavailable, and it was also suggested in this thread to make your own with a lathe.  While I'm all for the do it yourself attitude, spending $3.00+S/H to replace the couple pins that get destroyed sounds much easier to me.

[MCRider]

Another bit of info I found for those who may or may not have these same issues with the dowels.

You can purchase replacement dowels from here: http://www.motogrid.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/default.aspx
Only $0.99 each!

just an FYI since I've been told these are unavailable, and it was also suggested in this thread to make your own with a lathe.  While I'm all for the do it yourself attitude, spending $3.00+S/H to replace the couple pins that get destroyed sounds much easier to me.

Whereabouts on that site does one go to find them? They are listed as unavailable in the Honda OEM section.

[dummkauf]

Another bit of info I found for those who may or may not have these same issues with the dowels.

You can purchase replacement dowels from here: http://www.motogrid.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/default.aspx
Only $0.99 each!

just an FYI since I've been told these are unavailable, and it was also suggested in this thread to make your own with a lathe.  While I'm all for the do it yourself attitude, spending $3.00+S/H to replace the couple pins that get destroyed sounds much easier to me.

Whereabouts on that site does one go to find them? They are listed as unavailable in the Honda OEM section.

I just clicked "OEM Parts", then picked, "Honda" & then "Motorcycle" obviously.  I then selected my bike "CB750K A (76) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2540001 TO CB750-2575894" from the site.  which brought me to the parts list for it.  I picked "Cylinder" from the drop down and it listed part 8 as the cylinder dowel.

[MCRider]

Thanks I looked for the K2, and it was unavailable.