Topic: Tires 101

[bozo4onion]

Sorry for a new tire post. I see how much every one loves them. BUT... I have searched and learned much and have decided style and size for my cb550F. I have owned many bikes but never bought any motorcycle tires. I have a few questions:

1. Do most mount and balance their own tires. I see the method in Clymer.

2. If so, is there a place like tire rack for bikes with discount tires.

3. Do I assume we replace the tubes w/every tire change. What about the protective strip  between the tube and rim.

4 How much of a reaming should I expect from the local Honda, Kaw..etc. shop for tire, mount and balance.

Sorry for the tire post and thanks for the help. I think I'm running on a 30y/o dry rotter.

[eldar]

Replace the rubber spoke strap. There is no reason to keep an old one. Especially since it is all there is between your spokes and your tube. Replace the tube also. I know some might not think it needed but do it anyways. Use a quality tube.

As for the reaming, depends on the shop. Ask them, I doubt it is too bad.

[Steve F]

I buy the tires on line, and take them to the local Stealership for mounting and balancing.  They never gave me any crap about not buying the tires from them....I guess it's common practice.  They still soak you 30 bucks to mount and balance one tire, and that's with the wheel not on the bike.    It's still worth it though, not having any busted knuckles and marred-up rims if you were to mount them yourself without the machine.
Since they're so cheap, replace the tube and strip aloong with a new tire.

[Triffecpa]

I replace the rubber strip with a couple of wraps of duct tape.  Tear the tape so that it's just wide enough to fit into the valley on the rim.  Just poke a hole thru for the valve stem when you're done. 

[bozo4onion]

Hey thanks for the help. How about tire sources. Another use for duct tape!!! I love this forum.

[Triffecpa]

I've bought several sets of tires on-line thru American Moto Tire.

Prices are good and they're also helpful if you don't know exactly what kind of tires you want.

www.americanmototire.com

Changing tube type tires with tire irons isn't that big of a deal.  Tubeless ones are more work as it's hard to actually break the bead's grip on the rim.  It's also possible to balance them yourself.  You can buy stick on wheel weights. 

I use the bike as a balancing stand.  With the front of the bike off the ground, stick the wheel back in the forks, slide the axle back in, pull the caliper back so that it doesn't drag on the wheel.  Don't tighten the axle nut.  slowly spin the wheel and it will stop with the heaviest part of the rim at the bottom.  Take that portion of the wheel and rotate it to the 3 0'clock position and let it go again.  This is to double check that the same part of the rim ends up at the bottom again. 

Then you want to stick some weight on the rim at the 12 o'clock position.  Then move the weighted portion of the rim back to the 3 o'clock spot and let it go.  If it rotates down, you have too much weight on the rim.  If it rotates up, you don't have enough weight on it. 

You'll never know if you can actually do these things unless you try them once or twice.  If you find that you can't do them, or don't like doing them or find that your time is more valuable, then you can always pay someone to finish the job and then you'll know better next time.

Personally, I don't like to have to rely on other people's schedules with my projects.  Giving them my money isn't so much fun either... 

Good luck.

TR

[USN20]

Just to add ...

I use a local M/C tire and wheel shop. Most regular bike shops will offer free mounting and balancing IF you purchase the tires from them. If you bring in the wheels (off the bike) this can be done while you wait. When using this type of service ask to see the wheels with the old tires removed so you can inspect the inside of the rims for any rust. If rust is present you will need to address this condition before the new tires are mounted. Definitely replace the tube and rim strip. With the tires off this is also a good time to check spoke tension and rim trueness. Some shops offer this service and don't forget about the wheel bearings as they may need some attention. More than one way to do something - just depends. Ride safe.

[bozo4onion]

Thanks all for the help. This forum makes owning these old bikes so much simpler.

[Tower]

I replaced my front tube with a new one just a few weeks ago.  Two short tire irons made the job not sooo difficult.  (I recall it was much easier 35 years ago  )

Somehow, the old tube got cut at one of the spoke holes.  After getting the tire off the wheel, I could also see the extent of many years of corrosion - lots of rust.  Here's what I did...

• Marked my tire at the valve stem so I could place it back in the exact same spot.
• Used naval jelly to get rid of all rust including rust on the tire bead.  Bronze brush, jelly and plenty of elbow grease got rid of every spec of it.
• Painted the inside of the rim with rust converter first, let dry 2 days - turns powdery white, then painted with gloss black rust paint (Tremclad)
• Cut my old inner tube into a strip of the exact width of the spoke valley (about 1 1/2") and trimmed it to length to fit inside the rim.
• Placed the old spoke strap on top to hold my new inner tube strip in place.
• Baby powdered everything.
• Replaced the old tire (one side only).
• Partially inflated the inner tube, baby powdered it, placed it onto the rim, fastened down the valve, and made sure the tube was able to move freely (more or less).
• I just couldn't get the second bead over the rim.  So, after struggling for a while and slightly gouging the rim with my tire irons, I finally took the whole thing to my local bike shop where they finished the assembly and balanced the wheel (Cost me $20).

Turned out that by marking the tire and placing it back in the same spot, balancing was much easier - all of the old weights were in the right spot.  The bike shop merely removed one of the weights and the wheel was balanced.

[Jonesy]

Unless the tire is specifically labeled "Tube Type", expect it to be a pain to mount by hand, as "Tubeless" and "Tube/Tubeless" tires fit tighter the rim to ensure a good seal if no tube is used. I usually let the dealer mount and balance the tire, as I just replaced my rim and I don't want to bark it up trying to hand mount the tire. I always replace the tube and rim strip- it's cheap insurance.

[Bob Wessner]

Unless the tire is specifically labeled "Tube Type", expect it to be a pain to mount by hand,

I can, unfortunately, vouch for this. I think the sidewalls are heavier as well which makes maneuvering around under them to get the valve stem inserted, something of a challenge and small hands would be an asset.

[MoTo-BunnY]

I picked up a tool set like shown in this picture, off of feeBay:



I found the top one (straight lever) not very useful. The middle one was handy for popping the bead on and off, but the bottom lever was the sh!ite!  So much so I ended up buying another one - so I would recommend two of the bottom, curved ones and one of the middle.

I also bought a dial indicator, good quality spoke wrench (which was VERY nice to use), and made a truing stand out of heavy wood. I have trued bike tires before and had the general idea. Anyways, I got the tools and did a bunch of research. It took me several tries to get everything good and trued and the tire mounted but I was able to do it. I did have to have my neighbor help a bit but I learned a lot.

I would recommend to lube the tire well (I used a mild Simple Green and water solution in a spray bottle) to get that bead over MUCH easier (I was using tubeless tires which have a VERY thick bead). Also, use duct tape to protect the edge of your rim. Also, do NOT use screw drivers or anything sharp NO MATTER WHAT!! (you WILL puncture the tube and have to buy another new one, cursing all the while at your stupidity - don't ask me how I know this   ). Don't try to pop on too much of the bead at one time. . . .take it slow and easy, with the two levers at the same time - one holding the bead down while the other moves up some and pops it on. Then move the 'holder' lever ahead of the other one and repeat. That last little bit is the pain. A good rubber mallet REALLY helped here - I actually just gave the bead a couple good whacks to get that last few inches of the bead to go over. Also, its a real pain to get the valve through the hole so you might want to make a tool out of wire and an old valve interior to help (I have seen these tools on ebay, too).

Basically, it was a pain at first and after almost giving up a couple times, I got the tire all mounted and finished (so I thought) and then learned the tube was leaking, had to redo it all with another tube and finally finished it. It sucked having to redo it but I learned so much that I wouldn't hesitate to do it again next time - I skinned my knuckles a bit but I didn't even break a nail so it isn't THAT difficult. Also, I am like 115# with little stick arms so if I can do it, anyone can. ... just get the tools, take your time, and do it right.   

[Bob Wessner]

Also, its a real pain to get the valve through the hole so you might want to make a tool out of wire and an old valve interior to help (I have seem these tools on ebay, too).

Hmm, never thought to try eBay. I ended up making one to get that valve stem in place. 

[GroovieGhoulie]

For lube, I use a tube of spray silicone lube.  The tire shop sold it to me, and it's not super-cheap, but it won't get into the steel rim and rust it like soapy water and such, and it wipes right off the tire, so it won't cause it to slide out from under you after it's mounted.

I also vouch for "tube type" being FAR easier than tubeless.

For tire spoons, I bought a couple sets of the "cheapy" Motion Pro straight spoons with the lip on the one end.  For cheapies, they work REAL well.

[Jonesy]

Also, use duct tape to protect the edge of your rim.

Another trick I learned was to cut up an old pop bottle and use strips of it to shield the rim from gouges. They sell little plastic guards for this and are, in my opinion, useless. They are thick and (for what you get) expensive. The pop bottle method is cheap and the plastic is thinner, giving you a bit more room to work.

[Bob Wessner]

Also, use duct tape to protect the edge of your rim.

Another trick I learned was to cut up an old pop bottle and use strips of it to shield the rim from gouges. They sell little plastic guards for this and are, in my opinion, useless. They are thick and (for what you get) expensive. The pop bottle method is cheap and the plastic is thinner, giving you a bit more room to work.

I second Dan's approach. I used this method also. Being thinner, they were a lot easier to remove after the bead was mounted. Toss them out when your done.

[Tower]

Forget about using cloth or plastic lip guards.  The best lip guard is an old beer can: Cut the thin aluminum can into 1 1/2" strips.  Emery sandpaper or file the edges so there are no sharp spots.  Fold them over the rim - they're plyable enough that you can do it by hand, and they stay put well enough or move when you need to move them.  Plus the cost is zilch.  You can also double them up for that last 12" of stubborn bead.

[crazypj]

For lube, I use a tube of spray silicone lube.  The tire shop sold it to me, and it's not super-cheap, but it won't get into the steel rim and rust it like soapy water and such, and it wipes right off the tire, so it won't cause it to slide out from under you after it's mounted.

I've been checking out tyre company recommendations for a different group and most companies specifically sate NOT to use silicon lubes particularly with tube tyres.
In my experience,  they will probably allow tyre to creep on the rim and tear valve out.
 You probably wont find much useful information on US sites, (too much risk of someone suing) but the Briish sites usually give all sorts of facts
PJ

[Tower]

Indeed, silicone, grease, soapy water, oils, alum, etc are poor choices for lubricating rubber tyres.  Each lubricant has its own draw backs when applied to rubber, and/or steel.  They may do the job at first, but over a longer period of time, these drawbacks become obvious. e.g. attract moisture, dissolve rubber, stain aluminum, etc.

Due to the nature of rubber, talcum powder (baby powder, foot powder,chalk) makes a very slippery surface on rubber, and is quite inert in this application.  Graphite works the same way, but is more apt than talc to bind to rubber, so it takes second place.