Author Topic: xs650 and other twins?  (Read 12503 times)

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Offline EdB

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xs650 and other twins?
« on: December 04, 2007, 07:02:02 AM »
i have begun to look for a twin. i like my cb550 but love the way twins look and sound. i saw a xs650 for sale cheap. its in bad shape and probably doesnt run but wanted some feedback on some of the jap. twins(not the ones in my avatar  ;D) in my own little dream world i would find a vintage japanese twin with modern sportbike performance. i'll settle for a step up from my cb550. any info is appreciated.
cb350/450
rd350/400
t500
xs650 etc
thanks
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2007, 07:13:06 AM »
i wouldnt mind having an xs650.
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Offline Tim.

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2007, 08:12:11 AM »
I have an XS650 and love the support out there for it.  Mostly in the form of parts availability (www.mikesxs.com) and interchangeability (word?) between model years.

Ideally you'd find a later model year with the alloy rims and 35mm forks (not sure what year that would be).  They braced the frame in '73 I think and introduced the alloy rims later on.  Then they went to the mag wheels.

This is my project thread.  Not a restoration.  Only thing I'm using from the original 1972 bike I bought is the frame and engine (which is a 1978).  Knowing what I now know I'd have looked for a later model year frame.

http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=448.0
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Offline DCopp

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2007, 08:59:26 AM »
where do u live?  this one's 4 sale...

Offline crazypj

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2007, 09:20:23 AM »
where do u live?  this one's 4 sale...

I modified one of those late model XS400's to take Suzuki GS500 twin pistons/liners, think it went from 396 to 478 or so
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Offline bgfootball67

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2007, 09:21:53 AM »
Sorry not trying to jack the thread, but TinTin that is going to be one heck of a bike when you are done!  I read your thread on the tonup site, great work!
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Offline kirkn

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 10:32:52 AM »
Per your list, it looks like you're looking for a VINTAGE twin...

You've got a good list there, but I might add the Kawasaki KZ400 and KZ750, too.  There's a huge support site for them at KZ400.com, including a great forums site. 

Nice thing about the KZ400, and any of the late 70s / early 80s Jap twins is that by then, they were equipped with counterbalancers, which went a LONG way towards taming the vibration inherent in a vertical twin.

A few more to add to your list:

Honda CB/CM 400/450
Suzuki GS 400/425/450/500, GR650 Tempter
Yamaha XS360/400, XS650, TX500, TX750, Maxim/Seca 400  (the previous photo is a Maxim 400)
Kawasaki KZ400/440, KZ750

Good luck with it.  I really enjoyed my '74 KZ400 for the 15K miles I put on it.  I still participate on that KZ400 forum.

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Offline DarkRider

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 11:55:46 AM »
That silver bike looks a lot like the XS400 a buddy of mine picked up for its engine since it was a wrecked bike...turns out that with some slight changes to the XS650 chassis engine mounts the 400 engine would bolt right in. The mounts for mounting by the block are all there on the 400 engine as well. So theres a good chance i may be building an Xs400/650 hybrid tracker later on..mostly for resale though..
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Offline pdxPope

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2007, 01:31:53 AM »
Definately go with XS650. Simple, inexpensive, dead reliable.
(It seems like I ride the '79 XS650, while I wrench on the '73 CB500.)

Later years are better (no points= 8))

And, as stated, MikesXS, XS650.com & the XS650 Garage are invaluable resources.


Although be forwarned: the twins vibrate a LOT more that the fours do.....

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Offline DCopp

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2007, 06:08:45 AM »
DG, you have a hell of a project there...NICE JOB...and don't let the vibration comment fool you...these twins ride smooth and easy.

Offline Pwfyrcat1

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2007, 06:48:52 AM »
Edb,

Try this for a search,

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DMUS_enUS242US245&q=craigslist%2c+yamaha%2c+xs650

or, if you are looking for something more florida specific,

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DMUS_enUS242US245&q=craigslist%2c+florida%2c+yamaha%2c+xs650

I have been eyeballin' the xs also, but have to finish my current projects before I pick up another 'project'

It's SO easy to get carried away.

Luck!
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should;)

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Offline 754

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2007, 08:17:21 AM »
Try riding a CB 350 at 70mph  for a while.. probably makes some others feel smooth..
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Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2007, 09:19:47 AM »
I have my 2nd Yamaha 650, this one a 1973 TX with 5,000 original miles. Anyone saying they don't vibrate hasn't spent any time on one at 65 mph. These things are a jack hammer at 4,000 + rpm. And 754 - the Yamaha wins the vibration category above all else I've ever ridden!

I love the bike though and it has remained one of my top 3 favorite bikes of all times to ride. The 650 engine is a dinosaur. IT has 60's technology - even in the 80's! They shake, make tractor-like power, are faster than their 53 horsepower suggest possible, and remind me I'm on a motorcycle every time I kick start it -.

My all time favorites are (100% stock of course) -

1) CB500 Four - the absolute smoothest bike I've ever ridden and I find it's ergonomics amoung the most comfortable of any bike. I often wonder how or where they are hiding the claimed 50 horsepower (I've never seen or felt them in the two I've owned).

2) XS650 Yamaha twin - for all of the reasons mentioned above -

3) Kawasaki Mach III - 500cc triple. Not for any other reason except - the "howl and bark" these engines put-out would scare most of us back in the early 70's. To date, there are few engine/induction sounds that will stir a soul like those of a Mach III when it hits pipe at 5,500 rpm to it's 8,500 rpm red zone and beyond. Awesome - snorting and ready to do battle!

Regards,
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« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 09:23:07 AM by Ilbikes »
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Offline EdB

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2007, 01:29:30 PM »
this is just gonna be a weeender, nothing long distance. my friend i ride with has a cb350 twin and it kinda turned me on to the twins. if im gonna copy him gotta be faster ;D
But thence came the Great Schism, when the two like tribes diverged, and the Bobbers did take the Road to Cruiserdom and the Cafe Racers did ride to Sportbikedom and they did pollute the lands along their paths with their abominable spawn of Choppers, Stuntaz and like manner of unholy douchebaggery

Offline kirkn

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2007, 07:52:42 PM »
I'd go for one of the late 70s / early 80s 400/450s I mentioned earlier.  Light, simple, generally extremely reliable, and all had counterbalancers to take the shakes away.  My KZ400 twin was the smoothest twin I've ever ridden. 

Either that, or a nice, late 70s RD400 or an 84/85 RZ350.  A buddy of mine had an RZ350 new back in the day - what a blast to ride...

Although, I think if I came across an '81 - '83 Honda 400 Hawk nearby, I'd probably have to buy it... :)

Kirk

Offline flipprboi

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2007, 07:57:36 PM »
I say go for it and get the xs. i like them so much i bought 2 of them, 73 and 79. I cant wait to start working on them. I also have a tx750, with underseat exhaust.  The exhaust sound on twins are simply amazing, plus when you ride vintage twins in high revs, the bars massages your hands and arms while riding. Can't beat that :)       

Offline kirkn

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2007, 05:33:23 AM »
plus when you ride vintage twins in high revs, the bars massages your hands and arms while riding. Can't beat that :)       

....high revs being anything above 2300 rpm!

....and the seat massages your a$$, the footpegs massage your feet and lower legs, and if you accidentally lean your calf against the kickstarter, it's like touching a live electric wire.  I tell ya, it's nearly a full-body workout.   ;D

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2007, 05:59:55 AM »
I have never had more problems with a bike than I had with my 79 XS650. I hear the earlier bikes are somewhat more reliable, but the carbs on the 79 were early vacuum slide carbs and they were just awful. I was a lot younger then and didn't know so much about bikes or the Internet, so I was in way over my head with that beast. Now I know WHY I was having the problems I was having, and I could fix them... but be warned, the cost of owning a vintage XS is pretty high, because of all the stuff you have to do to make it reliable.

First off, the entire electric system is garbage. The metal in the wires had a high quantity of aluminum in the alloy, and it corrodes like you would not believe. So rewiring connections to the coils and headlight, and replacing the battery cables and starter cable is extremely important. Also, change the battery ground - its mounted to a thin piece of sheet metal that tends to rust out... and this will make all sorts of problems.

You'll also need to replace the coil and wires. The XS coil is extremely weak, and even with the above mods it may not have enough juice to start the bike when the battery is under load by the starter. (mine would only start on the kick starter).

The later bikes have mag wheels and the 1980 is the first one that comes stock with electronic ignition... but it's honestly a better idea to get an older bike that still had direct-slide carbs. The mag wheels and electronic ignition don't make up for how absolutely terrible the CV carbs were. The earlier bikes can be retrofitted with a dyna ignition, and the spoked wheels are lighter and retain that vintage look anyhow.

The swingarm bushings are made out of bakelite (a brittle plastic), and they were lucky to last 10k miles in the 70's. After 30+ years of sitting around, that stuff gets really brittle. Replace them with aftermarket bronze bushings. My bike had a nasty wobble around 70-75mph... and that was probably the cause.

The front forks need a brace BADLY. You can stand in front of the bike with the front wheel between your knees, grab the handlebars, and TWIST THE FORKS quite easily. Takes almost no effort. This is with all the pinch bolts tight and the fender mounted correctly.... the fender is made out of some kind of paper product I think... there can't be any metal there, because it bends and twists and provides ZERO bracing for the forks.

Brakes on the 79 were okay.. not great, but okay. The rear disk was a nice touch. Earlier bikes will have drum in the rear, and the earliest will have drum in the front too.

Front steering bearings need to be replaced too. Don't skimp there, go with tapered roller bearings.

If you have CV carbs, replace them. In fact, using a non-Yamaha carb is the way to go. You can buy a brand new pair of direct slide carbs off of eBay for $300 that are pre-jetted to work on the XS. That's the way I'd go if I really, really wanted to own one.

Or you could just buy a new Triumph Bonneville and have the vintage twin look with actual reliability....

Charles.

Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2007, 10:59:37 AM »
Sorry, I must correct you on something - all Yamaha XS650 series bikes - 1970~1983 had vacuum (constant velocity) carbs. My 1973 has them and my 1977 had them. I will side with you on one fact - the Mikuni vacuum carb can be a pain in the rear to get right. I've got a set that I've worked on 10 different times and they simply won't run -I replaced them with a set off Ebay and after just a cleaning - have run perfectly for over 2,000 miles.

Gordon
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Offline pdxPope

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2007, 11:48:57 AM »
Wow, I must have the only one the Yamaha got right.
I've NEVER had a problem with either the carbs or the vacuum petcock. In fact I've never even had them off the bike for cleaning!! (And we are talking about a $700 crackhead special w/ a bad headgasket and, um, creative wiring.

The only real issue I've ever had w/ the electrical system was fixed with a ground connection cleaning and a new fuse 'box' from Mikes' that I think was about $25, with fuses & connector block.

Never had any fork flex (although the handlebars are rubber mounted...) and I ride the snott out of it.

Yes, the head bearings & swingarm bushings are crap.
Yes, the e-start is woefully underpowered (but even stone cold, she's still a 2-kicker w/ full choke.)
Yes, anything north of 3k rpms will vibrate parts right off.
Yes, you can tell all 650 owners by the permanant burn scar on their calf.
Yes, if you goose the throttle when it's on the centerstand you will appreciate the 'reverse' gear Yamaha engineered into them.

Bottom line: 3 years later & 26K, she's still my daily driver.

My advice to you EdB, is lurk around some of the 650 boards for a while, you will get a pretty good idea of their strengths & weaknesses.

(God, I sound preachy! Didn't mean to upset anyone...)


-JP



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Offline kirkn

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2007, 01:40:47 PM »
XS650 - the '69 Camaro of the project bike world...  ;D

Or

XS650 - the bellybutton of motorcycles - everyone has one... 

Or

XS650 cafe project - been there, done that.  You and everyone else...  ;D



I hope none of you take offense.  I've seen some really very very nice project 650s - especially on this very board.  I'm only speaking of a slightly alternate view:  it seems like they're very common, like a hot-rod small block Chevy. 

Pick something different.

Just my 2 cents.


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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2007, 05:12:23 PM »
<quote>Yes, if you goose the throttle when it's on the centerstand you will appreciate the 'reverse' gear Yamaha engineered into them.</quote>

hahaha... I thought I was the only one that had the reverse gear. It'd go backwards at a walking speed, uphill.

Oh, I forgot... the mechanical advance on my bike would stick at full advance for no reason. I removed it and cleaned it and reassembled, and there was nothing wrong with it off the bike, but it would stick on the bike from time to time, which made starting it even more difficult. So I replaced it. IT STILL STUCK. I have no idea why.

Charles.

Offline bill440cars

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2007, 10:49:07 AM »


         You know, there may be a lot of the XS650s fixed up out there but, if you'll look over on 650motorcycles.com, you'll find quite a number of them there. And, of the ones that aren't restored, there are a vast number of them and you will see that (in most cases) each one has it's own characteristics. It makes the build more challenging but, can be done.

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Offline flipprboi

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2007, 11:28:47 PM »
There's a lot of nice things about twins too minus the vibration. Like custom exhaust routing. Being that the engine is narrow, you could play around with exhaust design even with stock frame or even with stock rear suspension with dual shocks. Here's a couple of our designs:

TX750 with under seat exhaust


and CB350 with high side pea trapp


plus the thump sound of the exhaust is KICK ASS!

Benjie of
www.benjiescaferacer.com

Offline pdxPope

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Re: xs650 and other twins?
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2007, 04:55:06 AM »
Quote
plus the thump sound of the exhaust is KICK ASS!

Oh YEAH!!!
Not too many things sound as downright cool as that 650 motor w/ a pair of HD Sportster :o tips on it @ 1200rpm.
 
(Although the SOHC 8K rpm scream is pretty tasty, too) :)

-JP

PS- Benjie, that undertail is S I C K !!!!

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