Topic: And the sandcast madness continues......

[Swoop]

I agree. If you love what you are doing (sounds like you do) and you know WHAT you are doing (ditto) ...it is a no lose situation. If you are there only to make money ..... not worth it. It will show in your work.
I love the bikes (including all 750 SOHC's) and what they represent......more important is what I think than others.

[Raul CB750K1]

This has been discussed before. There is only one way to perfectly restore a sandcast, and that is with all the right components. Once you have started a sandcast restoration, it is pointless to use a regular ignition when you have spent big bucks in the short chainguard, slicer front fender and wrinkle tank. Otherwise you will have a flawed sandcast, that will never win any concours restoration nor will achieve the same price than others.

The question here is wether it is worth to start a sandcast restoration. I would say it is not. If I got a cheap sandcast, I would just use regular parts and keep looking just in case the right one pops up at the right price. It is possible to find sandcast ignitions, but how many slicer front fender or short chainguards are still around? They were too bulky to be kept, they would probably were tossed or sold long ago.


P.S. "slicer front fender" is my own definition of the non-lip fender, I didn't recall what the right definition was.

[Terry in Australia]

Don't worry about it Raul, I still don't understand what "stuckness" means, ha ha!

But yeah, if you can find a K0 (sandcast or diecast, it's all the same to me) that is a good proposition like the one I bought from Andy, just enjoy riding it and when a "correct" part that you need comes along, grab it. Since I bought my K0 I've found good correct cable carbs, "slicer" front fender, (single slice for my January 1970 build) correct alloy fork sliders and caliper, and excellent repro airbox.

Most parts are still around except for the brittle plastics that I wouldn't bother with anyway when better repro stuff is out there, so as long as you're not just trying to become another Vic World and just enjoy riding your bike rather than entering it in shows, you'll do ok. Cheers, Terry.

[754]

There will always be stuff surfacing.. When I had the 06 Indian stuff there was the odd piece showing up.


The tank I had bought for a 31 Scout turned up under a house in the last 8 years.
Stuff will and does turn up, I never did get the unnumbered pipes for my sandcast, guy said they were probably still in the bar, but never called and I did not check lately. I did find another set they had a couple rot spots, but they should be fairly hard to find.

I found a 27 HD single tranny and clutch at a scrapyard and a 30,s  VL sidehack wheel and brake (with 4 ply tire!!!) And a Complete MAGNOT DEBONN engine.

I went to a Christmas party the other night, a guy says are you interested in a 750 Honda F, just around the corner.. like 2 or 3 houses away.. maybe 250 feet!! I sorta dont like them but it is original paint and he said it had reggie, and he would find out for me.. wierd thing, it was the guys kid who bought our house in 73.. dad has the bike.. AND I already bought a 750 on the same piece of land, since we moved from there.. go figure!!

Stuff is around, just scarce.. if you want to just casually search for parts, many bikes are not for you...

You get out what you put in, the harder you look the better you find.

[Raul CB750K1]

Don't worry about it Raul, I still don't understand what "stuckness" means, ha ha!

Ask Robert Pirsig; that's a quote from "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance"....

I would have included the origin, but there was no more space available in the signature.

[Terry in Australia]

OK mate, I bought a copy of that book 25 years ago, but I just couldn't get into it, now I'm older and more mature, I might give it another shot.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

OK mate, I bought a copy of that book 25 years ago, but I just couldn't get into it, now I'm older and more mature, I might give it another shot.

Older yes. More mature?? ha ha 

[Terry in Australia]

Hey fair go Jerry, just because I still love to party hard and ride motorcycles scary fast, that doesn't make me immature, does it?

Yeah, I guess it does, anyway, that's a dumb book! Ha ha, Cheers, Terry.

[techy5025]

Most of the early breakage of the sandcast cases was caused by the 530 chains of that era not being up to the task considering the horsepower involved.....at that time. I doubt, given correct chain and sprocket care, that you could break a modern 530 chain....no matter how much you "flail" the bike. After all, they are used on bikes with over twice the horsepower...and torque. Hopefully, none of those old chains are still on sandcasts ridden regularly....mine has the best 530 chain I could find.

Except for the engine cases and a few other early parts, most of the sandcast parts are common to the K0...including that rare ignition switch, short chain guard, gauges, cut fenders, etc. So the trick is to look for common stuff that doesn't say "sandcast".

I tend not to flail any bike. The excitement for me is the ride itself and not the speed or performance. My CBR600 has probably never seen 8K rpms....I think it redlines at 14K or so.  To me, it does seem a little foolhardy to push a 38 year old bike to its limits as there are other bikes that are not as rare/valuable to do such on. For the same reason, you don't find many '57 Chevy convertibles doing burnouts either. My motto seems to be...ride but preserve. 

Jim

[Terry in Australia]

Very true Jim, I'd never "flog" my K0, but I do love to scare myself on my 836CC K1 "bitser" (bits of this, bits of that) that I built to ride fast, complete with a new super heavy duty RK 530 X ring chain. (bigger and heavier than the 630 on my CB750F2 or Suzuki GS1000S)

Bikes should be ridden within their design criteria, and you gotta give that little CBR "the berries" mate, 8K RPM on one of those revvy little engines is not doing it any favours! Cheers, Terry.

[.RJ]

My CBR600 has probably never seen 8K rpms....I think it redlines at 14K or so. 

You are missing out!   Find a long tunnel/underpass and let 'er rip to the fuel cut!

[johnny_from_bel]

Very true Jim, I'd never "flog" my K0, but I do love to scare myself on my 836CC K1 "bitser" (bits of this, bits of that) that I built to ride fast, complete with a new super heavy duty RK 530 X ring chain. (bigger and heavier than the 630 on my CB750F2 or Suzuki GS1000S)

Bikes should be ridden within their design criteria, and you gotta give that little CBR "the berries" mate, 8K RPM on one of those revvy little engines is not doing it any favours! Cheers, Terry.

What exhaust system do you have under it.
Where do I order one .

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, do you have access to a time machine mate? I just picked that pipe up at a swap meet last month, it was a NOS system made in Japan, but marketed under an American brand name, which I promptly forgot.

It looks a little bit like a Yoshimura or perhaps Moriwaki pipe of the era, but I really don't know who made it. It's pretty quiet, but howls at high RPM, and kinda suits the bike too, don't you think? Cheers, Terry.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

"Very true Jim, I'd never "flog" my K0"

It sure as hell ain't yer K0 yer floggin! 

[Terry in Australia]

"Very true Jim, I'd never "flog" my K0"

It sure as hell ain't yer K0 yer floggin! 

And just what might you be inferring by that unwarranted remark? And where the hell are those diet pills you promised to send me if I didn't tell the world about your predilection for sex with small animals?

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Hey hey, it's just ducks and chickens...............................

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah, well I see you conveniently forgot to mention your "Hamster-love"?

[savannahcafe]

Whats a sandcast? If its like a sand castle, there are tons of those here at the beach in the summer time. But seriously, what is it and what makes it so special? Has anyone ever cafe'd one?

Mark

[Fuzzball]

Ya never broke your bone & got sand inside the cast? 

Here's the story, well told, hosted by our favorite website

http://sohc4.net/index.php?title=CB750#The_.27Sandcast.27_750.27s

Someone was selling a cafe'd one on ebay a while ago. A beautiful treatment.
I'll dig up the picture and post it if I can find it.
 

[754]

Techy, there is at least 30 parts that are different on early bikes, if not closer to 50, including the frame.

What sets these bikes apart was that they started off without a fully geared up production facilities, and parts were being used that were small in numbers, while vendors scrambled to gear up for high production.. so a wide variety of quite scarce parts are needed to build a correct one.

If you compare it to a Z1 or a Honda 500-4, Ithink that number 100 and number 10,000 would be identical.( I have confirmed this for the 500 with the partsbook) So basically on a lot of bikes they are really all the same.

But what sets the sandcast further apart than the rest is, it was the first in a few areas, and for decadesbikes of similar designs have been produced in huge nubers.. but it was the FIRST..!!


"There is one record that can never be broken.......




THAT is being the FIRST!!"

[tortelvis]

See also my post on 'doing your research'.



There have been many comments in the classic bike press about these 'show' bikes that are lovingly restored at huge expense, and then never run. To the point that some show judges will insist that the motor is started to prove that a particular bike actually has oil in the tank/crankcase getting it dirty inside.

Each to his or her own, but it saddens me to see a beautiful classic bike that will end its days sat on a pedestal, never started, never ridden. That's not what they were meant for! When I lived in the UK I saw a neighbor rolling a Norton Dominator out to the street and load onto a trailer. I raced over and asked what he was doing with it. He told me he was giving it to his FIL for some favor and that he would restore it and it would spend its life in his FIL's heated carpeted garage. Sad.

[techy5025]

My sandcast is in the 27xx range so it has the left mounted horn and probably some other differences from the later K0's. Some of the changes that have been noted in this thread I was not aware of....such as the short upper hose. I replaced mine with stainless, but kept the old one. Glad I did! Not sure about the different kill switch...hmmm. 

It sure would be interesting to note how many sandcasts still exist in some form or other. Anyone heard any guesses?

We aren't there yet, but preserving old bikes reminds me of the aviation buffs that are still flying the old planes. Like one old DC-7, a couple of Connies, and a few B-17's..out of thousands built. Pretty soon the security regulations will probably ground them.

Jim

[Bob Wessner]

Reminds me of my first commercial flight, it was a Connie in the early sixties. What a vibrating, rattling beast it was.

[Terry in Australia]

Over here in Oz, most of the old "War Birds" had to be scrapped after WW2, something to do with an agreement with the US government, so a heap of P51 Mustangs, Thunderbolts, Corsairs etc  were loaded onto barges and dumped off the coast of Queensland.

Amazingly, they pretty much "glided" down to the bottom of the ocean, and actually "landed" on their wheels, suffering minimal damage. They survived on the bottom of the ocean floor for 50-odd years, and just recently a guy was in the process of pulling them back out and restoring them.

I lost track of the story, I must see how he got on! Cheers, Terry.

[techy5025]

My first commercial flight was on a Delta DC-7 from Knoxville to Atlanta in 1966. They went all jet a few months later. Some things never change. We circled Atlanta for an hour waiting out a thunderstorm.  I still remember the flames out of the exhaust stacks that resulted from the very lean mixture to conserve fuel. 

I actually have about 10 hours of slightly illegal stick time in a Connie. The company I worked for chartered one for several months to do some radar work. The early Connies didn't have enough baggage space so that had a thingy called a chin pod that was wrenched up against the belly...unpressurized..to hold baggage. We mounted the radar antenna in there. Anyway, the job required circling in a racetrack pattern over a point for several hours over and the pilots would get bored and let me fly the loop for a while....I had my pilots license at the time at least.  Fun times!

Jim