Author Topic: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?  (Read 10030 times)

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scrapvalue

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1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« on: December 22, 2007, 08:25:06 am »
I just picked up a 1971 CB750 with just under 14,000 miles on it.
It has  double row chain and sprockets!
I don't remember ever seeing these on any other CB750 or any bike for that matter.
Was this something that came stock on some bikes, or is it an aftermarket upgrade,(or down grade)?
What was the purpose? ???
 

Offline bwaller

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2007, 08:36:10 am »
It wasn't stock, but someones idea that this was an improvement. Two times scrap is still scrap, it just makes a bigger hole in the cases! As you know todays chain has improved so much so that you can install a good quality narrower than stock chain with improved tensile strength over that monstrosity.

Andoo

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2007, 08:45:07 am »
Could be an ex- drag bike.

scrapvalue

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2007, 08:50:03 am »
Can it be switched back to a single row set up simply, or was there mods made that have to corrected also?
The sprockets don't show any wear and I really don't plan on hot-rodding the bike, so I'm not worried about breaking it.
It looks tough, but does seem to be over kill.
I know what you mean about the new chains though. I race MX and it is amazing what kind of abuse the new chains can put up with, with very little maintainence.

Don't believe it was ever raced, just looks like someone wanted to spend money on stuff,(we all know the type)!

Offline 754

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2007, 09:26:35 am »
They were for street use and maybe racing. If they were for racing then they would need more sprocket sizes.

I cant remember who made them, but seen a few on Hondas and on a Kawi 900.

Cool nostalgia piece though....
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Offline mcpuffett

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2007, 11:01:32 am »
photos please ;D, cheers mick
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Offline cleveland

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2007, 11:17:06 am »
I picked up a bike a while back with the same set up.  I got most of the replies you see here.  If your chopping the bike, keep it.  If your restoring or cafe-ing it, sell it to a chopper hound.  ;)

Offline 754

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2007, 11:23:37 am »
Yes it can be switched back.. no mods.

Someone on here may even trade??
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Big Jay

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2007, 11:46:04 am »
That kit was made by Azusa Engineering in So. Cal. At the time there were no good chains available, and that what the people with high horsepower bikes used.

Jay

scrapvalue

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2007, 12:20:43 pm »
photos please ;D, cheers mick

Here is a picture of the rear sprocket and chain.

Offline 754

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2007, 12:24:17 pm »
MEATY !!!!!
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

scrapvalue

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2007, 12:27:06 pm »
MEATY !!!!!

Kind of answers the question, "WHERE'S THE BEEF"!

Offline Tim.

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2007, 01:42:29 pm »
The front sprocket would be the interesting part.  The rear could easily be done with spacers and longer bolts, but the front would be a little more difficult.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2007, 02:07:47 pm »
They were an aftermarket accessory, expensive and not really needed. They also came in chromed versions. The biggest issue with them was in getting the engine sprockets and wheel sprockets aligned, because these don't always match up in the stock configuration (see the chain notes in the FAQ). The K0 required notching of the chain cover at the engine to make it all fit together; I never installed one on a K1-later, so I don't know if yours is also notched. They appeared first in 1970, due to the reputation of the CB750 being "the $1695.00 chain breaker tool". I always thought of these kits as being like the guy who stuffed a sock into his tight jeans before riding the "strip" for the night....  :-\  They are heavy, adding a lot of unspring weight, and between the weight and the extra friction, consume several HP in the process before reaching the wheel.

The 530 chain can transmit over 100 HP continuously, if properly lubed. The 50 chain (and similar O-ring chains) can handle about 70 HP. The difference is in the pins inside the rollers that also connect the links together. Superior quality chains like the Diamond XL series can handle even more HP and torque. I've long used the Diamond XL100 (hard to find!), getting up to 20,000 miles on them, replacing at 1.5% chain stretch. Dyno tests in the 1970s were used to develop these chains for the motorcycle industry, specifically for the CB750 and the Kaw Blue Streak, both notorious chain breakers.

Serious drag racers avoided them for their weight and power loss...chopper 750s seemed to have lots of them!
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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newcbguy

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2007, 02:11:55 pm »
thats a pretty pimp setup for a chop. kinda like that billy lane bike with the chains for the open primary!

Offline 6adan

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2007, 05:02:47 pm »
What happened to Billy Lane after he killed the guy on the bike? Dannie
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Offline 333

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2007, 05:22:58 pm »
I think he got off.  Google his name.  I would, but I don't care,

The one(big) advantage to that setup is reduction in chain wear.  3 to 4 times of adjustment(and replacement) intervals using chains of the day, who knows with todays chains.  I'd keep it.  The thing is though, that the chain and sprockets wear together, so if you have to replace one, you have to replace both chain and sprockets, even with that setup.  So it does double your costs.  But the cool factor...
« Last Edit: December 22, 2007, 05:28:01 pm by 333 »
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Offline 754

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2007, 05:38:46 pm »
newcbguy,
Are you talking about the stock chain drive primary HD ran for 80 years???
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline seaweb11

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2007, 05:42:56 pm »
scrapvalue   PM sent to you.

754  check your PMs too  ::)

scrapvalue

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2007, 07:32:11 pm »
  But the cool factor...

Ya, thats what I think! Just fixing the bike up to ride around town and go to the hang outs. It should be a good conversation starter!
There doesn't seem to be any seeable wear on the chain or the sprockets and there is plenty of adjustment left.
I don't have any plans to change it out, and I hope to keep this bike for a long time.
I will post some more pics when I get it back together.
Anyone here live near Naples, Fla.? I am heading down there in a week or so and will be staying in the area for a couple months. I am taking this bike with me and will be riding it well I am down there.

Offline eurban

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2007, 07:44:32 pm »
Cyclexchange is selling double chain conversion kits.  Attached is a Pic from their site . . . .

newcbguy

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2007, 08:55:49 pm »
On one of those discovery channel chopper shows billy lane built a bike with about 5-6 chains for the primary. It looked awesome but would chew up his pant legs he said. hate to get a finger in there. I didnt know that he killed someone!?!

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2007, 01:37:33 am »
I remember those kits, "Sonic Choppers" here in Melbourne used to sell them, from memory they were a smaller pitch and diameter than the OEM, probably because they used some industrial chain for the application. They did look cool, but even then, there were better options around. Cheers, Terry. ;D
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Offline mcpuffett

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2007, 02:18:01 am »
Thanks for the photos i have never seen one before  ;), i would leave it on i kinda like these early aftermarket parts  8), cheers mick.
Honda CB750 KO 1970,   Honda VTX 1300 2006, Lancaster England.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2007, 02:46:51 am »
Yeah, me too Mick! ;D

I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Tim.

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2007, 06:23:10 am »
The chromed sprockets twigged my mind - how well does chrome stand up on sprockets?  Wouldn't think it would at all given the wear.  I've seem them ceramic and powder coated too.

I've been thinking about improving the cosmetic appeal of my sprockets, but wasn't sure which way to go.
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Offline eurban

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2007, 07:22:22 am »
When I converted from 630 to 530 on my 78 750 project, Sprocket Specialists only offered me an aluminum rear sprocket for this purpose which for better or worse I bought and am using.  I did not polish it but that certainly would be an option if you wanted to bling out your rear sprocket.  I am sure SS can supply you with an aluminum rear sprocket for just about any bike. 2k miles and thus far the oring chain has needed very little adjustment but can't say for sure how long the alloy sprocket will hold up.  Chrome like (or whatever color you might want) powder coat with the sprocket teeth masked off should work fine on a steel sprocket and would be relatively cheap.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2007, 07:24:52 am by eurban »

Offline MRieck

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2007, 08:16:47 am »
They were an aftermarket accessory, expensive and not really needed. They also came in chromed versions. The biggest issue with them was in getting the engine sprockets and wheel sprockets aligned, because these don't always match up in the stock configuration (see the chain notes in the FAQ). The K0 required notching of the chain cover at the engine to make it all fit together; I never installed one on a K1-later, so I don't know if yours is also notched. They appeared first in 1970, due to the reputation of the CB750 being "the $1695.00 chain breaker tool". I always thought of these kits as being like the guy who stuffed a sock into his tight jeans before riding the "strip" for the night....  :-\  They are heavy, adding a lot of unspring weight, and between the weight and the extra friction, consume several HP in the process before reaching the wheel.

The 530 chain can transmit over 100 HP continuously, if properly lubed. The 50 chain (and similar O-ring chains) can handle about 70 HP. The difference is in the pins inside the rollers that also connect the links together. Superior quality chains like the Diamond XL series can handle even more HP and torque. I've long used the Diamond XL100 (hard to find!), getting up to 20,000 miles on them, replacing at 1.5% chain stretch. Dyno tests in the 1970s were used to develop these chains for the motorcycle industry, specifically for the CB750 and the Kaw Blue Streak, both notorious chain breakers.

Serious drag racers avoided them for their weight and power loss...chopper 750s seemed to have lots of them!
I totally agree about the weight part. Plus I thought those double chain sprockets were supposed to offset the chain pins? Anyway a good 530 chain will handle tremendous HP....more than any CB could produce no matter what the state of build.
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Offline mcpuffett

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2007, 02:43:30 pm »
Looks like you've had your ride "pimped" Terry  ;) 8), cheers Mick.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2007, 02:45:40 pm »
I remember those kits, "Sonic Choppers" here in Melbourne used to sell them, from memory they were a smaller pitch and diameter than the OEM, probably because they used some industrial chain for the application. They did look cool, but even then, there were better options around. Cheers, Terry. ;D

I remember that, too: for the guys who didn't want to cut their cases, I suppose....there were double-row 528 and 428 chains and matching sprockets, cut out for 750/500 Hondas.

Tin-tin: I vote for chromed, with recessed centers like Honda sprockets, with the teeth masked off. Just chrome that recessed center circle. You can claim "lower unsprung weight" with steel sprockets that way, too! And, if the holes were shrunk a bit in diameter so another one could be added, the lower-yet weight would make even an better claim.

The loss of 10 lbs. unsprung weight adds an effective 1 HP to the ground, all else being equal. My racing experience really proved this out, too. We drilled sprockets like crazy, cutting the recessed centers thinner, too. Inside the wheel rims, we trimmed off all the chrome and a bit more of the metal, too. The spokes were even individually checked for "how much could be trimmed and still hold onto the spoke nipple", then we'd polish the spokes with emery cloth. We also did other items, like smaller (3.50) tires and the lightest tubes, removing the rim band, drilled holes in the rubber cushions, and in the hub where the rubber stuff was captured, the brake shoe metal parts, the hub itself got turned here and there... Between all of it, we lost nearly 4 lbs from the rear wheel. The first time you accelerated away, you immediately felt it, too.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline 754

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2007, 03:03:53 pm »
Aluminum sprockets should be 7075, which is pretty close to mild steel in strength and harness. They will get good life and  weigh 1/3 of what a steel one does.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Andoo

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2007, 07:06:47 pm »
I saw an ABS plastic rear sprocket for a cb750 on E-Bay.  One time use drag strip part... haha

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: 1971 CB750 w/ double row chain and sprockets?
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2007, 10:19:38 pm »
Nylon rear sprockets were pretty popular back in the 1970's, but they seem to have all but disappeared now? Back then, Nylon was treated with almost the same reverance as carbon fibre is now. Personally, I think carbon fibre might have the edge, ha ha! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)