Topic: Dry Clutch Problems - why ??

[Terry in Australia]

I wouldn't be too fussed Charlie, you've only been riding it around in the car park haven't you? I can't see how you'd have done any major damage over such a short distance. Cheers, Terry.

[750goes]

Thanks guys,

the lovely colour on the transmission side is all sludge.definitely not rust...I'll give it a complete washdown, and show some lovely clean photos afterwards..........before I throw liberal quantities of nice clean oil at it....then will use the kickstart to get things flowing again before I try to run it.....

I don't think I have done any major damage - but only time will tell...........

When I put it back together I will squirt oil through the mainshaft from the transmission side to go through to the clutch, before I button it all up, and make sure I can get oil through the gallery to the transmission side from the oil pump,, also will endeavour to do the same thing for the oil filter passage.... I have blown out all the passages with compressed air and there appears to be nothing stopping it at all...

the oil pump is within tolerances, but I did notice both inner rotors have some scoring on their outer dges, like very small gouges - probably over the distant past where bits of aluminium have been flung around and through the pump....the faces of the oil pump rotors have scoring on them in the form of circular wear marks, which I think have come from bits and pieces floating through the oil over many years...

the stop valve works nice and smooth, but the relief valve was I think never moved in its life so far....I had to encourage it out, and it was not rusty or sludgy..

A little benefit to this story could well be that the oil pump was only pumping through the filter and up to the top end, valve train and camshaft, camchain etc....

I'm off to have several ales and bring in the new year----more work on the bike tomorrow.....making a few gaskets I think.....

[Patrick]

Ring in the new year? Already? I always forget, is it yesterday or tomorrow in Oz?

[750goes]

its today - new years eve - time now 17:55   

[seaweb11]

I wouldn't be too fussed Charlie, you've only been riding it around in the car park haven't you? I can't see how you'd have done any major damage over such a short distance. Cheers, Terry.

I have been watching this one, but with no 1st hand knowledge couldn't help.

But I am glad you had your "moment of clarity of all that is wrong and all that will be right"

P.S. I agree with Terry, problem solved...run it and have a good one.

[750goes]

thanks seaweb11,

happy new year to you and the family - whats your next project??...yours are always interesting...

..............the moment of clarity..........well I hope it is now right......and nothing else rears its ugly head........not for the moment anyway........

thanks to everyone who replied.....I will follow this up when it's back together and let you know how it runs - might even try to take a video of its first startup.......don't hang by the neck for that one though......I have enough trouble posting pictures.......


special thanks to Jonesy - man you know your engines  - I would not have thought of the transmission side to look at....for a few years anyway...


happy new year to all the great members on SOHC, may all your dry clutches be little ones....

[Bodi]

The rotor marks are completely normal. Unless you have some real doozies don't worry about it. The larger rotor should have the most damage, this is the scavenger pump and everything that gets through the screen passes between the rotors. The smaller one gets oil from the tank, where big chunks should settle out (hopefuuly) and have already been smashed through the scavenger pump.
I've disassembled at a lot of used 750 pumps, looking for a clean scavenger rotor set to donate to a 400F pump capacity upgrade. Every one was pretty badly scarred. Replacement pumps are now 100% pure linear crystal cold forged unobtanium, and a used pump will probably be worse than yours.
On your sludge situation: If you haven't put in new rings, use some (motorcycle) synthetic oil in the motor. It will clean the sludge off the inside pretty quickly. I don't know why or how, but I've noticed the cleaning power of synthetic oil several times. On an older engine that's always had normal oil, the first change to synthetic turns black almost immediately, and the inside of the engine gets all shiny. New rings should use standard oil for the first few hundred miles to help seat the rings (the superior friction reducing characteristics of synthetic will slow down the abrasion of the rings that conforms them to the cylinder walls).
Gas smell in oil: This is normal when you run the engine for a short time, There's always a bit of gas carried into the oil on a cold engine, and it only evaporates when the oil gets hot. After a nice long run with the engine hot, you shouldn't smell much or any gas in the oil after it cools down.

[Jonesy]

special thanks to Jonesy - man you know your engines  - I would not have thought of the transmission side to look at....for a few years anyway...

Thanks for the kudos, 750goes.

Although, I must confess I learned something as well following this thread. I had never really looked that closely at how oil is delivered to the geartrain, but between looking at the lubrication diagram and noticing that the shaft holder had oil passages bored into it gave me another idea of where to look for problems.

I'm just glad you figured it out!
Happy New Year!

[754]

Am I the only one here that has an NOS pump in the Honda Box!!!

I too had a particularly vexing oiling problem that took quite a while to solve..which led me to tear into a pump or two and finally order the new one whick I did not yet use.

I will say this though, my problem had everything to do with a custom oil tank & nothing to do with the stock system.. basically I had oil pressure while upright and would loose it if I let the bike run while leaned onto the sidestand..

Took a long time to figure that one out..

[750goes]

Jonesy,

kudos delivered where deserved...................

It took me a while to see from the picture you put up the grey arrows on the diagram leading to the transmission side......now I can give the whole system a pretty good flush out and pre-oiling before I get it back together again....

754
the inside of the engine does look pretty clean now that you mention it - I'll take some more photos and put them up in a day or so.....

thanks again
I've got a sore head - and I only remember having two beers last night......I think it was the third keg that pushed me over the limit......oh the pain.........

[Terry in Australia]

Serves you right, you drunken bum! Now where did I put the Nurofen?........... 

[750goes]

thanks Terry.....I have just been over to Trevors' to pick up a few parts he kindly donated...one being that little bung plug....so now I get to not order from Honda, and hopefully have the bike together sooner than later....but not today........

hope your nurofen works better than my panadol max....