Topic: Ignition Analysis: Honda's coils

[scottly]

Cal, I didn't mention the third spark is because it happens only 12* after the second spark, so it's a bit of a moot point. If the coil can't discharge and recharge within 15*, it won't with only 12*.

[scottly]

A little extra food for thought:
"The amount of energy the CDI system can store for the generation of a spark is dependent on the voltage and capacitance of the capacitors used, but usually it's around 50 mJ, or more. The standard points/coil/distributor ignition, more properly called the inductive discharge ignition system or Kettering ignition system, produces 25mJ at low speed and drops off quickly as speed increases."
Also, the PA recommends a small spark plug gap, while CD ignitions, as well as some other inductive ignitions can support much larger gaps. 

[calj737]

Then I interpret your entire argument with PA ignitions as an argent based upon coil discharge cycles? And that premise is centered upon stock Honda coils, which C5 doesn't use.

I find it intriguing that you are so determined to refute their capabilities, yet you have no personal experience with them. I bet you would have joined the mob to hang Galileo...

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, I don't think Scott questioning the merits of CycleX's ignition system is akin to joining an angry mob to hang Galileo Cal? Maybe just one of the guys stoning the blasphemer in "The Life of Brian"?

I've bought a couple of things from CycleX, the fork tubes I bought were good, but one (expensive) item wasn't. It arrived with no fitting instructions, was missing hardware, and wouldn't have worked if I didn't machine a part that it needed, it just hadn't been properly thought out, in CycleX's rush to get the item onto their website.

I emailed CycleX and sent them pics of the part I made to make their item work, but never got a reply. They still haven't fixed this problem, or at least they don't list the part they need to ensure their item won't fail. No biggie, I got mine to work, but they weren't any help. Cheers, Terry.

[scottly]

Then I interpret your entire argument with PA ignitions as an argent based upon coil discharge cycles? And that premise is centered upon stock Honda coils, which C5 doesn't use.

No, I merely used the stock system spark duration as an example of the time vs dwell vs RPM concept. Stock coils won't work with the C5, according to Paul. I would love to test one, both on the bench with an oscilloscope and the dyno. I do have other issues with the PA, including the lack of indexing the rotor to the crank, and subsequent lack of timing marks. There is no way to verify dynamic timing; it can only be timed statically, and if anything shifts when tightening things down, there is no way to check it.
Terry, I never threw stones at Kenny; he only offered them for sale.

[calj737]

Then send me a PM, and I'll loan you mine with the agreement you'll post up the dyno results, and seek support from C5 to wade through any questions you have.

I'm sure many would appreciate seeing evidence of their actual performance. (Proven vs Claimed). Mine was ordered for a 500/550, but it will run on a 750k with a spacer (1/4") installed on the shaft. From Paul,

"Yes the 500/550/750 are very similar. On the CB750 you have a shaft, so the spacer will slide over it, then the encoder, and lastly you will need a 1/4" tall spacer. The stock Honda nut can be used. The twin coils of the 550 kit do not fit under the gas tank of a stock 750 so you'll have to mount them down near the airbox or be creative.

Timing maps are the same so you will have no issues swapping it over."

[HondaMan]

A little extra food for thought:
"The amount of energy the CDI system can store for the generation of a spark is dependent on the voltage and capacitance of the capacitors used, but usually it's around 50 mJ, or more. The standard points/coil/distributor ignition, more properly called the inductive discharge ignition system or Kettering ignition system, produces 25mJ at low speed and drops off quickly as speed increases."
Also, the PA recommends a small spark plug gap, while CD ignitions, as well as some other inductive ignitions can support much larger gaps. 

There are also some electronic 'tricks' that can be applied to Kettering systems (and have showed up as various products over the years) to extend their RPM range or improve the length of spark discharge time. For example, if you increase the amount of iron or ferrous capacity within the iron in the core of the coil, it will hold more magnetic flux and will correspondingly create more spark energy for the same current applied, but does charge slower, limiting this effect to usually 12K RPM tops on our bikes' designs. In older cars (with points) there were several brands of coils that did just this (Jacobs' products come to mind), while some others did things like voltage doublers or special distributors with smaller gaps (Accel, Borg Warner, et al) to put the energy inside the cylinders and not lose it along the path from coil-to-plug.

With my box, I control the spark discharge so it makes an adequate spark to fire, but holds it "on" as long as possible (longer than 'normal') by conserving some of the energy once the spark jumps the gap and polarizes the area, then spend that energy as slowly as possible to make the arc stay alive longer. That's partly what I tried to explain in the [mind-numbing] "life of a spark" dissertation in my book.

Also, with any given coil, you can stretch the spark longer by increasing the resistance in the spark circuit, up until the point where too much loss in the resistance starts occurring after the arc begins.

[b5rider]

I just ordered HM's ignition for my bike. Reading through the posts was akin to reading Poe; I needed a thesaurus, schematics, dictionary, and a beer. Anyhow, looking forward to installing it and improving how it runs (runs good now, just want it to idle a bit more consistently).
Dumb question: If I have a 550 with a 650 cam, will that make any difference on the HM unit setup? I assume as long as the timing is set correctly, it shouldn't.
thanks

[HondaMan]

I just ordered HM's ignition for my bike. Reading through the posts was akin to reading Poe; I needed a thesaurus, schematics, dictionary, and a beer. Anyhow, looking forward to installing it and improving how it runs (runs good now, just want it to idle a bit more consistently).
Dumb question: If I have a 550 with a 650 cam, will that make any difference on the HM unit setup? I assume as long as the timing is set correctly, it shouldn't.
thanks

While I didn't get to ride this particular bike BEFORE the Transistor Ignition was installed, I did get to ride it after: a local rider-builder put a port job and 650 cam (and some hi-perf springs) in his 550 cafe', along with the Ignition. That crazy bike rapped to redline like a roadracer, and was well-able to run past that. The 650 cam makes the 550 tach read higher than normal, but I was shifting past 12k indicated with it still pulling strong. That may have been 9k RPM?

[b5rider]

I'm hoping to just have it idle smoothly and pull my sidecar. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[HondaMan]

Here's a tuning tip for sidecar use on these Fours, based on some experience with the old Vetter Terraplanes:

Cut off 1/2 turn of at least one of the springs on your spark advancer, and consider doing it to both - ESPECIALLY on the CB500/550 Four engines - then rebend the last half-coil to insert back into the advancer's weight. (I have removed 1 coil on one side and 1/2 coil on the other, in real bad cases...) Their spark advancer is both too fast and too far for good torque. In addition, the springs heat-sacked in about 5000 miles, making the engine hit full advance then by about 1500-1600 RPM. This is WAY, WAY too early for that smallbore engine. This causes spitback up the intake tract during the overlpa cycle, and in severe cases the waste spark can touch it off, causing a mild 'popping' sound until 3000 RPM (audible mostly if the plenum was removed and 'pod' filters or velocity stacks installed). This causes a slowdown (or outright burnoff) of the NEXT intake charge cycle.

The characteristic result of this, on the 500/550 engines, is the sensation that the engine acts like a "switch", making weak torque until around 4000-4500 RPM, at which point it surges. In particularly bad cases this can be as late as 5500 RPM, and often is.

When I raced my CB500 (informally, but against an excellent rider: my brother on his CB500) I also RETARDED the total advance. On mine, I added several layers of heatshrink tubing around the stop-block of the advancer's backplate to make it only advance to about 2 degrees LESS than the marked total advance. As soon as I did this, my 500 would out-accelerate and outrun my brother's bike, adding an indicated 6 MPH top end (114+ MPH). The 2 bikes were otherwise identical (and stock), being made about 4 months apart at Honda. This revelation was going to next become my own Gentleman's Express bike that winter (that was when the article appeared), but someone offered me a LOT more $$ than I paid for it, and I was planing on moving to Colorado the next summer, so I ended up selling it  that winter (and regretting that) instead. I shoulda kept that 500...

[b5rider]

Here's a tuning tip for sidecar use on these Fours, based on some experience with the old Vetter Terraplanes:

Cut off 1/2 turn of at least one of the springs on your spark advancer, and consider doing it to both - ESPECIALLY on the CB500/550 Four engines - then rebend the last half-coil to insert back into the advancer's weight. (I have removed 1 coil on one side and 1/2 coil on the other, in real bad cases...) Their spark advancer is both too fast and too far for good torque. In addition, the springs heat-sacked in about 5000 miles, making the engine hit full advance then by about 1500-1600 RPM. This is WAY, WAY too early for that smallbore engine. This causes spitback up the intake tract during the overlpa cycle, and in severe cases the waste spark can touch it off, causing a mild 'popping' sound until 3000 RPM (audible mostly if the plenum was removed and 'pod' filters or velocity stacks installed). This causes a slowdown (or outright burnoff) of the NEXT intake charge cycle.

The characteristic result of this, on the 500/550 engines, is the sensation that the engine acts like a "switch", making weak torque until around 4000-4500 RPM, at which point it surges. In particularly bad cases this can be as late as 5500 RPM, and often is.

When I raced my CB500 (informally, but against an excellent rider: my brother on his CB500) I also RETARDED the total advance. On mine, I added several layers of heatshrink tubing around the stop-block of the advancer's backplate to make it only advance to about 2 degrees LESS than the marked total advance. As soon as I did this, my 500 would out-accelerate and outrun my brother's bike, adding an indicated 6 MPH top end (114+ MPH). The 2 bikes were otherwise identical (and stock), being made about 4 months apart at Honda. This revelation was going to next become my own Gentleman's Express bike that winter (that was when the article appeared), but someone offered me a LOT more $$ than I paid for it, and I was planing on moving to Colorado the next summer, so I ended up selling it  that winter (and regretting that) instead. I shoulda kept that 500...

That's great advice. I'll try that next

Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk

[AUSCB750]

Hi! I have a 72 CB750 and currently overhauling the ignition system. Bike is running standard gear except a new sealed battery.

So far I have purchased-

Dyna S Ignition

2x Dynatek 5 Ohm Black Coils

Dynatek Dyna Ignition Wires - 7mm - Copper Core - Black

4x NGK Spark Plug Resistor Cover 5K Ohm

4x D8EA Spark Plugs


Is this a preferable setup compared to the stock points and coils?

Thanks in advance.

AUSCB

[Terry in Australia]

Hi! I have a 72 CB750 and currently overhauling the ignition system. Bike is running standard gear except a new sealed battery.

So far I have purchased-

Dyna S Ignition

2x Dynatek 5 Ohm Black Coils

Dynatek Dyna Ignition Wires - 7mm - Copper Core - Black

4x NGK Spark Plug Resistor Cover 5K Ohm

4x D8EA Spark Plugs


Is this a preferable setup compared to the stock points and coils?

Thanks in advance.

AUSCB

Ha ha, out of the mouth of babes! Sorry mate, yep, your setup will work fine on your K2, I've got the same on a K2 I'm building for a customer and it throws a spark like an arc welder.

Don't ask how it compares to the stock setup though, or some old farts here will tell you that stock points and coils are great and you've wasted your money, blah blah blah, but in truth, you've bought just about the best ignition that you can for an old CB750. Enjoy. Cheers, Terry.

[HondaMan]

Hi! I have a 72 CB750 and currently overhauling the ignition system. Bike is running standard gear except a new sealed battery.

So far I have purchased-

Dyna S Ignition

2x Dynatek 5 Ohm Black Coils

Dynatek Dyna Ignition Wires - 7mm - Copper Core - Black

4x NGK Spark Plug Resistor Cover 5K Ohm

4x D8EA Spark Plugs


Is this a preferable setup compared to the stock points and coils?

Thanks in advance.

AUSCB

You were smart indeed to get the 5-ohm coils!

[cb000019]

Techs analysis?

I talked with a guy at Ignitech who pretty much thinks I don't know what I'm talking about (i actually don't) or I'm crazy, I was quoting (probably out of context) stuff from the forums here about ohms and coils, etc.

Anyway, maybe this will be usefully attached to this forum for the future builders, racers, or people with too much time and money and not enough sense.

It's kind of a long read, but it seems to answer my question as to what a CB750 can run or not.

I feel like this board is probably the equivalent of a peer reviewed journal so if any of the resident experts here want to chime in to agree or disagree, please do!!

If you want to know more about the system you can check out their website http://www.ignitech.cz/en/ and the product is TCIP4, selling for about a buck fifty USD. (less if you buy in bulk.)

we don't sell spark plugs, but we can supply you the following items

Ignitech TCIP4 Ignition system
Trigger rotor
FBG UltraRace solid copper core silicon jacket spark plug leads
Nology low resistance coils.

You may find that you due to shipping costs you are better to source the coils and Spark plug leads locally.
One decision you need to make is if you want twin outlet coils or to use four independent coils. Please see the section in my manual on this. Normally we would recommend independent coils but the cost gets quite expensive.

Recently I had a chance to to do some preliminary testing on late model Suzuki SV650 dual outlet coils which look like they might be a very good cost effective solution. It appears that these coils act as independent coils even though they look like your normal budget twin out put coil. I need to do some further testing to verify how well they work with the Ignitech units to be totally confident that these are a good option and hope to get a chance to do this next month.



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:
Date: Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 3:07 AM
Subject: Re: FW: Purchase ignition system
To: Liam Venter <liam@fastbikegear.co.nz>


Alright, let's do it! Low resistance coils, ignition, and resistor plugs and your manual, plus shipping to USA.

I sent you ten for the manual just now via PayPal.

From: Liam Venter
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 13:51
Subject: Re: FW: Purchase ignition system
To: 


The battery size won't come in to play unless your bike is consuming more power than you generate.

80 Watts from 3 ohm coil doesn't make any sense.

Being a racer I always want all the power I can get.  An extra 3-6 hp on a 100hp bike is gold to me.

All modern bikes run low resistance coils for good reason.

Some food for thought and brain exercise you probably don't want.....

Your coils are only cosuming power during the dwell cycle of the coils which is typically about 2000-4000 miliseconds of each revolution. (The dwell duration will be longer for a 3 ohm coil as it takes longer to saturate than a modern coil so you set the dwell time shorter in the ignitechs when you use lower ohm coils). Current doesn't instantly climb to peak value through the coil due to a coil haveing inductance and reluctance as opposed to just resistance.

Some back of the envelope worst case values for you...

Your regulator will be putting out about 14.2 Volts. 

Current = V/I  = 4.73 amps. (Note this is the Peak during the dwell period)

Power consumed = current squared x Resistance = 4.73 x 4.73 x 3 =67 Watts ( (Note this is the Peak during the dwell period and so will be a wild over estimation of wattage!)


Or a simpler method Power = Volts x Amps

To get the true value you can just measure the amps going through the primary side of your coil and multiply this by the volts. (While the amps will be constantly varying many times a second from 0 to peak most amp meters will give you a reasonably accurate average amp reading by default.

While I have not done this measurement I wouldn't be surprised by an average current draw as high as 2 amps.

I expect you will see a value of about 6W from a 3 ohm coil.

To give you an idea I did do a test on a ZX10R a few years ago running 4 low resistance coils. We started the bike on the starter motor, completed 17 laps at 1:12 second pace per lap (20 minutes) and then brought the bike back to the pits and started it on the starter motor again. This test was to see if we could complete a race and be able to start it on the starter motor afterwards as per race regulations.. The bike was running in total loss, the charging system, stator, magnets, regulator were all removed. 

The bike was fitted with a miniature 4.8 amp hour lithium battery. The battery had to run the starter motor (twice) water pump, ECU, Traction control etc plus 4 low resistance ignition coils.

At the end of the test I estimated the battery was about 75% depleted. I could do the calcs on the current draw based on this and the a/h of the battery but no time today.

On my own single cylinder air cooled (no water pump or anything else other than the dash consuming any power) race bike which is a single cylinder bike fitted with and Ignitech CDI ignition and 0.2 ohm CDI coil with a very short dwell time (not kettering/dwell system like yours and the Kawasaki) I have a 2.4 Ah battery. I typically charge it in the morning. Do two 10 minute practice sessions, two 6 minute qualifying sessions, and three 8 minute races in a day and still have about 50% charge left. While the dwell time is very short with CDI the output energy (which indicates the input energy) is only slightly less than a Kettering/dwell ignition system) as the spark intensity is much higher albeit for a shorter duration.


Many thanks

Liam Venter
Liam@FastBikeGear.co.nz

www.FastBikeGear.co.nz




mob: +64 (0)275 985 266
Office: +64 (0)9 834 6655







On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 10:14 AM,  wrote:
The CB 750 stator puts out less than 200 watts as per the service manual. Everything I read about coils on the sohc4 .net forums was leading me to believe the 3ohm coils drew upwards of 80 watts!? The original coils were 5 ohm.. I'll need to research this further... My battery is a 4 cell anti-gravity tiny little thing something like 1"x4"x3", just enough to kickstart the bike.
From: Liam Venter < liam@fastbikegear.co.nz >
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 1:07:24 PM

To: 
Subject: Re: FW: Purchase ignition system
 
Typical stators put out between 100 and 700 watts. Most early single phase stators would be in the 350 watt range.

I would speculate guess that a 3 ohm coil might consume something like 3 Watts on average and a 0.6 ohm coil would consume 15 watts at most. 

We have been installing low resistance coils on two cylinder bikes fitted with 350 watt stators with no issue for a few years now, so it is unlikely that you will encounter a problem.

Power gains with increased spark energy have sometimes been quite surprisingly significant.

Many thanks

Liam Venter
Liam@FastBikeGear.co.nz

www.FastBikeGear.co.nz




mob: +64 (0)275 985 266
Office: +64 (0)9 834 6655







On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 9:22 AM,  wrote:
I read lower ohm coils draw more watts, the low ohm coils could overpower the stator if drawing too much watts and my battery goes dead? That's my impression.

W
From: Liam Venter < liam@fastbikegear.co.nz >
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 12:11:49 PM

To: 
Subject: Re: FW: Purchase ignition system
 
Generally wouldn't recommend old fashioned 3 ohm coils. Better to use modern lower resistance coils. Not sure why you would think the suitable ohms for the coils is dependent on whether you are using a kick start and LED lights? The reason to use low ohm coils is that you need less dwell time and can get a more powerful spark with lower resistance coils.

Yes as long as you establish the correct timing relationship between the lobe and the base plate (you want the trailing edge of the lobe to pass the pickups between 5 to 10 degrees of top dead centre. (depending on the base/static timing you want at idle) You should slot your plate so you can adjust the static timing because the base/static timing you want at idle is the only thing you can't adjust via the configuration software. The gap between the pickups and the lobe should be as small as you dare, I normally aim for between 0.4 and 0.6 mm on the Ducatis I typically work on. the smaller this gap the better the timing signal.

We do not recommend shielded is resistive plug wires or caps. We prefer resistant spark plugs if you can get them for your bike (I cover the reasoning for this in my manual)



Many thanks

Liam Venter
Liam@FastBikeGear.co.nz

www.FastBikeGear.co.nz




mob: +64 (0)275 985 266
Office: +64 (0)9 834 6655







On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:44 AM,  wrote:
Ok, for a 1978 cb 750, how much for the ignition and two 3ohm coils?

I'll fashion the base plate myself it doesn't look too technical, basically measure the diameter of the pulse rotor, mount the pickups 180 degrees apart, exactly opposite in other words..

doesn't matter what angle they are mounted on the baseplate, for instance, they could be top and bottom ,left and right, diagonal, as long as they are opposite, facing each other, and the gap between the pulse rotor and pickup is correct?

And the coils come with shielded plug wires yea? So I buy resistant spark plugs?

I'm ok with 3 ohm coils because I've turned the bike into a kick only with LED lights, very low current usage.

[HondaMan]

Without re-quoting all the above:
there is a mix there of info about CDI ignitions and their coils, vs. Kettering (points and coils) ignitions. These are apples and oranges, so the info doesn't exactly equate: I suspect this just helps the confusion out there... 

If the SOHC4 is fitted with a CDI system (think CB650 SOHC4, or post-1979 DOHC4 bikes), the type of coil used is a pulse-discharge unit, with a very short dwell time for charge/discharge cycles. Some of these actually fire the spark with the charge cycle, not the discharge, which is known as a "transformed spark" coil system: you can find this in some of the super-computerized cars these days. They are highly efficient and controllable, but must be driven by a computer with spark sensors to work right.

If you're in the world of Kettering, it is simple to understand (which may be why it has lasted for over 100 years?), and simpler to tune as it doesn't require software and EEPROM-burning to get it running...you can just figure out how much power you have to run the coils, then pick the coils that won't kill the power budget.

[Kriegmob]

Would this dynatech system work for a 79 CB650?

Hi! I have a 72 CB750 and currently overhauling the ignition system. Bike is running standard gear except a new sealed battery.

So far I have purchased-

Dyna S Ignition

2x Dynatek 5 Ohm Black Coils

Dynatek Dyna Ignition Wires - 7mm - Copper Core - Black

4x NGK Spark Plug Resistor Cover 5K Ohm

4x D8EA Spark Plugs


Is this a preferable setup compared to the stock points and coils?

Thanks in advance.

AUSCB

Ha ha, out of the mouth of babes! Sorry mate, yep, your setup will work fine on your K2, I've got the same on a K2 I'm building for a customer and it throws a spark like an arc welder.

Don't ask how it compares to the stock setup though, or some old farts here will tell you that stock points and coils are great and you've wasted your money, blah blah blah, but in truth, you've bought just about the best ignition that you can for an old CB750. Enjoy. Cheers, Terry.

[HondaMan]

Would this dynatech system work for a 79 CB650?

Hi! I have a 72 CB750 and currently overhauling the ignition system. Bike is running standard gear except a new sealed battery.

So far I have purchased-

Dyna S Ignition

2x Dynatek 5 Ohm Black Coils

Dynatek Dyna Ignition Wires - 7mm - Copper Core - Black

4x NGK Spark Plug Resistor Cover 5K Ohm

4x D8EA Spark Plugs


Is this a preferable setup compared to the stock points and coils?

Thanks in advance.

AUSCB

Ha ha, out of the mouth of babes! Sorry mate, yep, your setup will work fine on your K2, I've got the same on a K2 I'm building for a customer and it throws a spark like an arc welder.

Don't ask how it compares to the stock setup though, or some old farts here will tell you that stock points and coils are great and you've wasted your money, blah blah blah, but in truth, you've bought just about the best ignition that you can for an old CB750. Enjoy. Cheers, Terry.

Does your '1979' bike have points? It replaces those.

[Sebba992]

Hello!

A bit late to the party, but i'll give it a shot anyways.

Awesome collection of information here, and backed by impressive reserach and testing!

I regret buying my Dyna S for the 500 K2 after reading this. Especially since i can't get my hands on some coils to go with it that doesn't cost an arm and a leg 

Would try to build my own transistorized ignition, if i can manage to figure out the specs, ideally i'd buy one of HondaMan's systems but import VAT to Norway makes it a very expensive upgrade (the dyna S i sourced from a shop here, it was considerably cheaper than importing new points/plate and other parts to refresh the ignition).

Anyways just wantet to give my thanks for the hard work, now I need to figure out how to get my coils sorted so i can actually ride the bike this season!

[HondaMan]

Hello!

A bit late to the party, but i'll give it a shot anyways.

Awesome collection of information here, and backed by impressive reserach and testing!

I regret buying my Dyna S for the 500 K2 after reading this. Especially since i can't get my hands on some coils to go with it that doesn't cost an arm and a leg 

Would try to build my own transistorized ignition, if i can manage to figure out the specs, ideally i'd buy one of HondaMan's systems but import VAT to Norway makes it a very expensive upgrade (the dyna S i sourced from a shop here, it was considerably cheaper than importing new points/plate and other parts to refresh the ignition).

Anyways just wantet to give my thanks for the hard work, now I need to figure out how to get my coils sorted so i can actually ride the bike this season!

To try to help you get it running again: take a look at my website here:
http://sohc4shop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=44
where I show a part I make that you may be able to make there. It is a pair of power resistors mounted to a bracket that will fit the rear or front mount of the coils. The Black/White wire of the bike (coil power) plugs into the resistors and each resistor then plugs into the coil (+) feed side. For your bike you will need at least the 2.0 ohm, 5 watt resistors, but that will still leave the 500 in a marginal power situation when riding in town. The bike will work on the hiway, above 4500 RPM, where the power from the alternator will balance the losses. Above that it will charge up the battery a little, but not much.

The bracket is made from a short length of ductile aluminum, which carries away the heat from the resistors to keep safe levels of heat under the fuel tank, should the bike be parked hot and someone leaves the key on.

[Sebba992]

Hello!

A bit late to the party, but i'll give it a shot anyways.

Awesome collection of information here, and backed by impressive reserach and testing!

I regret buying my Dyna S for the 500 K2 after reading this. Especially since i can't get my hands on some coils to go with it that doesn't cost an arm and a leg 

Would try to build my own transistorized ignition, if i can manage to figure out the specs, ideally i'd buy one of HondaMan's systems but import VAT to Norway makes it a very expensive upgrade (the dyna S i sourced from a shop here, it was considerably cheaper than importing new points/plate and other parts to refresh the ignition).

Anyways just wantet to give my thanks for the hard work, now I need to figure out how to get my coils sorted so i can actually ride the bike this season!

To try to help you get it running again: take a look at my website here:
http://sohc4shop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=44
where I show a part I make that you may be able to make there. It is a pair of power resistors mounted to a bracket that will fit the rear or front mount of the coils. The Black/White wire of the bike (coil power) plugs into the resistors and each resistor then plugs into the coil (+) feed side. For your bike you will need at least the 2.0 ohm, 5 watt resistors, but that will still leave the 500 in a marginal power situation when riding in town. The bike will work on the hiway, above 4500 RPM, where the power from the alternator will balance the losses. Above that it will charge up the battery a little, but not much.

The bracket is made from a short length of ductile aluminum, which carries away the heat from the resistors to keep safe levels of heat under the fuel tank, should the bike be parked hot and someone leaves the key on.

Already checked it out, awesome stuff you got    My only problem is shipping times and total cost of importing. Had i found your shop earlier i probably would have saved up enough to get the Transistorized Ignition unit.

Been looking at sourcing some resistors locally, but those kinds of parts are hard to come by over here it seems. I am also aware of the power/charging issue (been dilligently reading the whole thread here, and working on processing all the info  ).

Thanks for the input! I'll give it a couple of days still to see what parts i can get my hands on, before i evaluate wich solution will be the most appropriate. I will howewer go throug the wiring and connectors to make shure the charging system is working optimally, as per your recommendations in this thread.

[scottly]

Hello!

A bit late to the party, but i'll give it a shot anyways.

Awesome collection of information here, and backed by impressive reserach and testing!

I regret buying my Dyna S for the 500 K2 after reading this. Especially since i can't get my hands on some coils to go with it that doesn't cost an arm and a leg 

Would try to build my own transistorized ignition, if i can manage to figure out the specs, ideally i'd buy one of HondaMan's systems but import VAT to Norway makes it a very expensive upgrade (the dyna S i sourced from a shop here, it was considerably cheaper than importing new points/plate and other parts to refresh the ignition).

Anyways just wantet to give my thanks for the hard work, now I need to figure out how to get my coils sorted so i can actually ride the bike this season!

What coils do you have? Stock coils will work ok with the Dyna..
BTW, the new Dyna S ignitions have not had the same sort of failures that gave the earlier versions such a bad reputation, not to mention tainting all electronic ignitions.  

[Sebba992]

Hello!

A bit late to the party, but i'll give it a shot anyways.

Awesome collection of information here, and backed by impressive reserach and testing!

I regret buying my Dyna S for the 500 K2 after reading this. Especially since i can't get my hands on some coils to go with it that doesn't cost an arm and a leg 

Would try to build my own transistorized ignition, if i can manage to figure out the specs, ideally i'd buy one of HondaMan's systems but import VAT to Norway makes it a very expensive upgrade (the dyna S i sourced from a shop here, it was considerably cheaper than importing new points/plate and other parts to refresh the ignition).

Anyways just wantet to give my thanks for the hard work, now I need to figure out how to get my coils sorted so i can actually ride the bike this season!

What coils do you have? Stock coils will work ok with the Dyna..
BTW, the new Dyna S ignitions have not had the same sort of failures that gave the earlier versions such a bad reputation, not to mention tainting all electronic ignitions.

I have the stock coils, but they have some corrosion damage to the primary side wiring, close to the coil housing. Thats why I'm trying to source coils close to stock spec, that doesn't cost 200usd each (approximation of what the USD value of what i pay in NOK for one Dyna 5ohm coil is)

Well, might be a bit early for me to make an opinion, haven't actually tested it that much, yet seeing as this coil issue appeared....
But i fully expect very good results from the Dyna, and from the little testing i have gotten after install, it is much better than the worn out stock points, no doubt.

[RAFster122s]

What about the coils that sell for less than $100 that HondaMan referenced as a good stock 5ohm coil set? Forgotten if it is cb750supply or 4 into 1 that carry them... they should import for $200 or less for the pair wouldn’t they? If shipping cost doesn’t eat you alive.