Author Topic: Odd stuff in oil pan -CB750K2 (Read 8056 times)

andy750 · « **on:** January 12, 2008, 02:38:23 PM »

Today was a great garage day and I got the chance to change my leaky oil pan for a replacement one. When I removed the current one I noticed a lot of "steel wool" type material in my oil pump filter....it was magnetic.....see photos.....other than a few red flakes?? Anyone seen this before? I havent.....

IMG]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r58/andy750/Jan%202008/P1090014.jpg[/IMG]

IMG]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r58/andy750/Jan%202008/P1090020.jpg[/IMG]

IMG]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r58/andy750/Jan%202008/P1090021.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks for any input,
cheers
Andy

scunny · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2008, 02:50:28 PM »

hows the cam chain tensioner ?

mattcb350f · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2008, 02:54:52 PM »

Could it be clutch fibers?
Matt.

upperlake04 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2008, 08:29:18 AM »

Bump this. I'm curious about the steel woolish stuff

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #4 on:** January 13, 2008, 08:35:00 AM »

Quote from: upperlake04 on January 13, 2008, 08:29:18 AM

Bump this. I'm curious about the steel woolish stuff

Likewise.

andy750 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2008, 08:40:10 AM »

Im at work now but Ill take some more photos when I get home - perhaps its dried out and I can get a better idea....it appeared on the oil pump filter like a "plastic sheet" until I came to wipe it off....see pics above....never seen this stuff before. I guess it could be very fine shavings but they are metallic? Bike is a stock CB750K2, 50,000 miles and never been opened up. More updates to follow.....

Oh and the clutch is smooth as silk - best clutch Ive ever had....so no obvious clutch problems...oil is changed all the time and never anything in oil that comes out...I would never have known about this unless I had looked at the filter....very odd!!

Camchain sounds ok.

cheers
Andy

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2008, 08:41:46 AM »

Are you using stock Honda oil filter elements? Probably are, just thought I would ask.

upperlake04 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2008, 09:03:59 AM »

Do you have access to a microscope?

andy750 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2008, 09:12:00 AM »

Quote from: Bob Wessner on January 13, 2008, 08:41:46 AM

Are you using stock Honda oil filter elements? Probably are, just thought I would ask.

Im using FRAM oil filters......I was thinking of going back to stock though....

Yes I use a microscope daily in the lab. Ill bring in the stuff Monday and have a look at it - good idea!!!

cheers
Andy

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2008, 10:15:00 AM »

Here you go again!

Can you clean it up and get a better picture?

andy750 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2008, 02:12:43 PM »

I took some clearer pics today and I think you can see it much better....it is metallic - see "stuff" at end of magnet....

cheers
Andy

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2008, 02:18:04 PM »

I downloaded the pic, enlarged and sharpened it a bit. Are you sure all of that is ferrous material? You might want to try separating some of the smaller components out (like with a needle) and see if they are magnetic. Using the magnet en masse might be leading to a false conclusion about the entire wad of material.

andy750 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2008, 02:23:35 PM »

I agree with you Bob - I think its a mixture of light shavings - only a few and some other type of non-magnetic stuff - like gasket material? Or thin shavings of fibre? And I still see red flecks in there, like paint chippings but no idea what that could be....there is no red on my bike......Its hard to tell...Ill take a look under the microscope tomorrow.

cheers
Andy

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2008, 02:28:30 PM »

Microscope would be interesting. It doesn't happen to capture dig. images does it? We are all curious. If you know a kid that got an Eyeclopse for Xmas go borrow it.

Gave one to our eldest grandson. It magnifies things upto 200X and projects them on to a TV.

754 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2008, 02:52:05 PM »

To me it does not look metallic.. more like maybe clutch fibres.

I have seen red plastic masking used under chomed covers, and rustoleum paint in cases to aid ? oil flow.. maybe it is that?

woulnt hurt to cut a new aftermarket filter you use open to see how clean in there.. red adhesive holding paper to end maybe?

Kevin D · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2008, 06:04:22 PM »

Andy, is that a blob of water in the pan, lower left in the circle?

When was the last time, if ever, you looked in there? Have you been in the filter housing yet? Looks like some fibrous something or other.

Johnie · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2008, 06:16:02 PM »

Could that red stuff be some old factory sealant?

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2008, 06:41:32 PM »

Steel wool remnants that caught some oil filter remnants? Has that engine been apart before? Are you the original owner?

Somemonkey · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2008, 07:19:51 PM »

I've had my oil pan off a couple times and I also found small red pieces. I'm not sure what it was but I'm glad I'm not the only one. $:-\$

nippon · « **Reply #19 on:** January 14, 2008, 04:25:14 AM »

The wool pieces should be a part of the oil filter element,...I don't know any other sources.
According to the red pieces,....probably oil filter too, or if they are like rubber, probably some
small pieces of the engine case gasket sealer. You should see it from the outside of the engine cases,
Did they use a red sealer? I think Honda did, but I'm not sure.

andy750 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2008, 05:27:50 AM »

Well all great suggestions so thanks guys for all your help on this.

A little history on the bike in question first....bought by me in March 1999 from an original SOHC mail lister after I landed in Boston (Feb 99) for the first time. I ran it until the gear shaft bearing went. With the help of a friend, split the lower cases and "fixed" the bearing. Re-assembled and ran for another 1000 miles or so before same problem happened. Before I could fix it I left to return to the UK and bike sat for next 2 years untouched. I came back in 2003 and got bike, pulled engine and fixed it myself...only problem was that on re-assembly I couldnt get it into gear. I gave it to a local "expert" ex-Honda mechanic - he meticulously went through it fixed it and game me the engine back (but kickstart never worked again

). Its likely he used some kind of red sealant on the lower cases -Ill need to double check the seal to see colour as I thought it was gray sealant.

Ive just examined the dried remains under the microscope (sorry Bob not the digital one) and there are 4 components: (1)- red flecks - probably some kind of gasket material - Ive never used the red gasket sealer so maybe someone else (Honda, PO, or my ex-mechanic (see above), (2) small blobs of "melted plastic" type material - looks like melted plastic and (3) strands of fibrous material/plastic and (4) ~10 long shards of magnetic metal.

So....things to do - pull the oil filter (around Spring!) and check oil filter for signs of wear, and check oil filter casing for more strange pieces. Check for red sealant anywhere, change oil (Spring) and watch for anything nasty in the oil and finally adjust camchain just to be sure.....then.......ride it until the day I have to pull the engine again to freshen up the top - end - at 50,000 miles its still going strong but Im sure at some point soon it will need some attention.

Thanks for all your helpful suggestions.

cheers
Andy

MRieck · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2008, 07:16:50 AM »

I remember reading a story in Roadracing World about fibers dropped from the red shop rags that are so common and them clogging oil pump screens. The fibers do not break down. I have personally seen this on my own bike. It usually occurs from people covering the engine with the rags during a rebuild or using them during major work. I cover stuff with clear plastic bags now and blow parts off with air prior to final assembly.

skiri251 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2008, 07:54:48 AM »

Quote from: andy750 on January 13, 2008, 09:12:00 AM

Im using FRAM oil filters......I was thinking of going back to stock though....

I read somewhere (BritBike forum?) that FRAM oil filters were to be avoided. They disintegrate.
Don't want to start a filter war but that's what I remembered.

754 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2008, 08:33:10 AM »

Like I said.. cut a new filter.. see how its made.. has the glue got dribbles around it that come off and fall in the pan..tap the paper element..look for shavings.. it a mass produced part they spend zero time on.

I am always amazed when I see threads on saving a bit on filters.. you can run 2 gallons of gas thru it in an afternoon, pay 15.00 bucks for oil.. but the filter they want to save on! It the price of a few beers is it not??

How much is a Honda filter??..probably the only company that really cares the most, how well its built..

USN20 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:20:58 AM »

Andy 750: Additional clues or supporting evidence may be present in the bottom of your oil tank. When the oil is drained from the tank there is always a percentage of oil remaining as the drain plug is on an angle and just above the tank bottom. Since you already have the pan off, drain the tank and go "fishing" along the inside lowest bottom edge just below the drain plug. A long handle straight blade screwdriver (I wouldn't trust just a magnet) will work along with a bright flashlight. If any foreign matter is present - collect as much as you can. Next, remove and flush out the tank with a pint of oil based solvent such as kerosene or diesel fuel and deposit the cleaning solution in a clean pan for further inspection. I did this on my 750K4 last winter and was surprised at the amount of dirt that came out of the oil tank. Just a thought ...

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Author Topic: Odd stuff in oil pan -CB750K2 (Read 8056 times)

upperlake04

upperlake04

USN20