Topic: Wiring for dummys, or dummy, me.....

[VonYinzer]

So on my 73 cb500k1 im running kick start only, with the only lighting being the headlight and LED taillight. Oh, and of course, gauge lighting which will also be LED. The headlight (high/low and on/off) switches will be mounted in the plate where the dummy lights once lived, i.e. no switches on the bars. Ill run a small gel battery in the tail (which is 12v obviously, and is originally used for race quads with a bunch of electronics so it'll be powerful enough) Does anyone see any issues with this setup? I read through the FAQ's and it seems as if it will work, but im a measure ten times cut once guy so, i figured id ask again... Thanks.

[Hush]

No replies but lots of people reading your post mean we are thinking about it.

[TwoTired]

How do you know the battery will be "powerful enough", if you haven't done an electrical budget for the bike?  Do you know the Amp Hour rating?

Is this a street bike, race bike or a show bike?

What size (watts) headlight?  Are you using 3 ohm coils?  How long do you wish it to keep running at idle?

[Markcb750]

Just remember,

Every device needs to be connected back to the negative side of the battery, some of through a switch, some through two wires plus the connection to the negative side of the battery.


Well every device except the coils, the coils just hammer themselves, kind of like hermaphrodite worms.

[KB02]

...the coils just hammer themselves, kind of like hermaphrodite worms.

 

[VonYinzer]

How do you know the battery will be "powerful enough", if you haven't done an electrical budget for the bike?  Do you know the Amp Hour rating?

Is this a street bike, race bike or a show bike?

What size (watts) headlight?  Are you using 3 ohm coils?  How long do you wish it to keep running at idle?

Its a street bike. The battery in question is used by a friend of mine who does endurance quad racing, in which he runs for up to 5 hrs at a time, with dual headlights, brakelights, a digital "dash", and other lighting. As well as a computer controlled engine. I havent figured the amp hour rating yet... But running stock coils, a stock headlight, and only a small (but VERY bright) LED taillight, and LED gauge lights. Like stated in the original post, the bike will be kick start only, so the battery wont be drained turning the motor over. It seems to me (and trust me, im an electrical moron, so i could be wrong...) that the stock charging system and the gel battery would be enough to keep everything functioning. Once again, there will be NO turn signals, dummy lights, starter, or any other electronics on the bike. Only whats needed to keep a spark, and the lights on. In essence im setting it up similar to a race bike, but with a few exceptions to keep it legal and safe.

[VonYinzer]

Just remember,

Every device needs to be connected back to the negative side of the battery, some of through a switch, some through two wires plus the connection to the negative side of the battery.


Well every device except the coils, the coils just hammer themselves, kind of like hermaphrodite worms.

That much i do understand. Ill be running a 6 circuit blade style fuse block, as well as all custom wiring. The only switches i think id need are the headlight switches, brake light (reusing the stock one) and ignition switch (which im replacing with a low profile universal switch that i can hide but still access under the seat) 

[VonYinzer]

Also, in my searching ive come across the idea that removing the starter and other bits cave shave 15 - 20 pounds from the motor as well as lighten up the flywheel..... Any ideas as to whats involved in this process? (Im aware that removing the starter is part of it......) My old honda manual doesnt exactly get into race lightening.....

[Markcb750]

Also, in my searching ive come across the idea that removing the starter and other bits cave shave 15 - 20 pounds from the motor as well as lighten up the flywheel..... Any ideas as to whats involved in this process? (Im aware that removing the starter is part of it......) My old honda manual doesnt exactly get into race lightening.....

Just removing the starter will save about that much, never weighed mine but it is a heavy little bugger.

Search this site for starter clutch threads, they will provide insight into how to remove the clutch and its drive gears. My guess is someone Like APE would have any necessary spacers to keep shaft and bearings in their correct relationship.

sounds like you have a handle on the electricals. TT's point is at idle the stock alternator/regulator do not have enough power to charge the coils, energy is drained from the battery.  Too small a battery will not work if you idle for significant parts of your ride. 

I do not know the specifics of any quad four racing set up, but most modern engines have alternator/regulators have much better low rpm charging capacity then these older Hondas.  In the end only build/ride and evaluate will prove you have the right set up.  Trying to keep the amps down is doing the right thing.

There is a guy in the great northwest who makes a solid state voltage regulator. a search here will find him many problems with the old rectifiers and mechanical regulators so a lot of information here if you search under regulators.

[VonYinzer]

Thanks Mark...... Helpfull stuff!

[my78k]

I'm not sure that you need to build ride and test...to TT's point you need to figure out what the overall amperage draw will be. Add them all up and then you know what your surplus or deficit will be both at idle and any given RPM. (the one variable would be resistance I guess but given you are using new connectors etc I would say it would be minimal)

Dennis

[TwoTired]

I don't know what the "quad's" charging system looks like, or its specifications.  Or, if it makes power at idle speeds.
The Cb500/550 alternator makes about 150 watts at the alternator's peak RPM, about 5000.
The stock bike has and electrical load of about 120 Watts.  So, at 5000 RPM the battery can receive charge.
The CB500/550 alternator doesn't make 150 amps at idle.  The stock bike uses about 80 watts from the battery at idle since the alternator can't keep up with the electrical demand of the bike, which is about 120-130 watts (assuming lights are on).  The 500/550 alternator at idle makes about 40-50 watts. 

With the stock bike, the engine remains running at idle because of the battery power reserve at idle, as that is what is providing the major power demands of the stock coils (25 watts) , the lights (~75 watts), and the alternator field coil (25 watts).

A smaller battery won't endure such drain for very long.  The time will depend on the actual battery rating  (Stock is 12 Amp Hours.)  And, when the voltage falls low enough, the coils can no longer spark the plugs, then you have a roadside ornament that only >looks< like a wicked fast race machine that will only go as fast as you can push it.

You can kick the idle up to 2500-3000 RPM, so the bike never runs on the battery after starting.  This is quite acceptable for a race bike.  Show bikes don't have to run at all.  Street bikes usually spend time in traffic. stop light, etc. and need to idle, so they don't overheat.

You may wish to develop an electrical budget, before you ride the bike very far from the garage.

Cheers,

[VonYinzer]

I don't know what the "quad's" charging system looks like, or its specifications.  Or, if it makes power at idle speeds.
The Cb500/550 alternator makes about 150 watts at the alternator's peak RPM, about 5000.
The stock bike has and electrical load of about 120 Watts.  So, at 5000 RPM the battery can receive charge.
The CB500/550 alternator doesn't make 150 amps at idle.  The stock bike uses about 80 watts from the battery at idle since the alternator can't keep up with the electrical demand of the bike, which is about 120-130 watts (assuming lights are on).  The 500/550 alternator at idle makes about 40-50 watts. 

With the stock bike, the engine remains running at idle because of the battery power reserve at idle, as that is what is providing the major power demands of the stock coils (25 watts) , the lights (~75 watts), and the alternator field coil (25 watts).

A smaller battery won't endure such drain for very long.  The time will depend on the actual battery rating  (Stock is 12 Amp Hours.)  And, when the voltage falls low enough, the coils can no longer spark the plugs, then you have a roadside ornament that only >looks< like a wicked fast race machine that will only go as fast as you can push it.

You can kick the idle up to 2500-3000 RPM, so the bike never runs on the battery after starting.  This is quite acceptable for a race bike.  Show bikes don't have to run at all.  Street bikes usually spend time in traffic. stop light, etc. and need to idle, so they don't overheat.

You may wish to develop an electrical budget, before you ride the bike very far from the garage.

Cheers,

Heard and taken into very careful consideration... Thanks. Still waiting on some exact specs on a few of the parts, but a budget is in the works.....