Author Topic: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar  (Read 3052 times)

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Offline UnCrash

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Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« on: January 15, 2008, 06:15:40 AM »
Black Mustang Club received notice from their calendar publisher that Ford Motor Company send a letter prohibiting the publication of the club's calendar containing club member pictures of their own cars.

Going after your most valued fans and customers is sheer stupidity...

Here's a quote from the BMC website:

Quote
I got some more info from the folks at cafepress and according to them, a law firm representing Ford contacted them saying that our calendar pics (and our club's event logos - anything with one of our cars in it) infringes on Ford's trademarks which include the use of images of THEIR vehicles. Also, Ford claims that all the images, logos and designs OUR graphics team made for the BMC events using Danni are theirs as well. Funny, I thought Danni's title had my name on it ... and I thought you guys owned your cars ... and, well ... I'm not even going to get into how wrong and unfair I feel this whole thing is as I'd be typing for hours, but I wholeheartedly echo everything you guys have been saying all afternoon. I'm not letting this go un-addressed and I'll keep you guys posted as I get to work on this.

I'm sorry, but at this point we will not be producing the 2008 BMC Calendar, featuring our 2007 Members of the Month, solely due to Ford Motor Company's claim that THEY own all rights to the photos YOU take of YOUR car. I hope to resolve this soon, and be able to provide the calendar and other BMC merchandise that you guys want and deserve! This thread will remain open for you to comment however you wish, and I'll update it as needed.

Thanks for all your support of the BMC!!


And a link to the forum:
http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42402&page=3


The blog Techdirt picked up on this issue and posted about it:

http://techdirt.com/articles/20080114/160635.shtml
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 06:17:23 AM by UnCrash »
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2008, 06:54:22 AM »
You have to remember that Detroit (i.e., Big Three) are not forethinking giants or they would not be in the position they are in. Too bad there isn't some way to get some news media (CNN Business, CNBC, or something) to shine a spotlight on this.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline nickjtc

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 06:57:02 AM »
How the mighty have fallen!
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Offline mmtsquid

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2008, 08:37:54 AM »
No one ever accused Ford Motor Company of being smart - hence, the Focus..........
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2008, 08:42:05 AM »
bull#$%*,tell em to take you to court and then how much bad press them idiots get.
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Offline 754

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2008, 09:48:45 AM »
They must have been talking to the other MOTOR COMPANY that talked them into putting a  BIKE name on trucks!!

 You walk behind someome wearing an HD jacket, wondering what model they ride.. and then they get into their shiny H-D truck!!!    :o



 It getting bad I tell .. as bad as that Japan company!!  you never know  when you see a Honda shirt if their ride is a Civic, Wing ..or GASP!!!..........................



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Offline 333

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2008, 10:35:43 AM »
754, you forgot to mention outboards.

It's funny you should mention HD in a thread about idiocy. Remember when Honda came out with a single crankpin v-twin for the Shadow line?  HD tried twice(unsuccessfully) to sue Honda over the SOUND that particular type of engine makes, stating that it was exclusively a Harley sound!  Honda did try to egg them on with a 2 page ad showing the bike with a single line underneath;   "Made You Look!".

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Offline DammitDan

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2008, 11:56:55 AM »
Damn right take them to court over it, and call CNN/HLN/Reuters/BBC, anyone you can think of...  I'm sure there are plenty of lawyers out there who would take this case pro-bono JUST for the publicity it would generate them!

Just think how the media could make Ford look; frivolously suing their customers while laying off scores of their own employees in the back field due to "dwindling profits"...
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Offline CrisPDuk

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2008, 12:16:11 PM »
The phrase   'Don't sh!t where you eat'  springs to mind ::)
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Offline Steve F

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2008, 01:06:01 PM »
The phrase   'Don't sh!t where you eat'  springs to mind ::)
And "Don't bite the hand that feeds you".

Offline dusterdude

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2008, 01:56:19 PM »
yea,fords stock is at roughly 6 dollars right now,good move guys.
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Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2008, 02:35:14 PM »
Well, you know, "intellectual rights" are protected even harder than material goods. In Spain, it gets a bigger punishment to download or copy a CD than to stole it from a shop. If you get your photo modified to look like one of Disney's villain and published on the Internet, you will have a hard time getting it removed for the sake of getting offended vs freedom of speech. But try to get Disney act on the illegal reproduction of one of their registered characters and the weight of the law will fall upon the offender. Even the song "Happy Birthday" is registered and shouldn't be sung without paying royalties....


Corporate crap.....

Offline tramp

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2008, 02:42:31 PM »
this is detroit where the weak are killed and eaten
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Offline CrisPDuk

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2008, 03:16:06 PM »
this is detroit where the weak are killed and eaten

Well that doesn't bode well for the futures of both Ford or General Motors does it :-\
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Offline GoatBaSS

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2008, 03:48:17 PM »
No one ever accused Ford Motor Company of being smart - hence, the Focus..........
Missed the Probe!
A-S Tro Van...

From a legal standpoint, and this is the way I understand it, you can sell a print of something all day long. Seems like a collection of prints. And as long as you are not making claims or promotions.
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2008, 06:14:39 PM »
It getting bad I tell .. as bad as that Japan company!!  you never know  when you see a Honda shirt if their ride is a Civic, Wing ..or GASP!!!..........................

...usually it's a Civic with a wing on it...  :D
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Offline DammitDan

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2008, 07:40:37 PM »
...usually it's a Civic with a wing on it...  :D

I always love it when people ask me what those spoilers are for...  I tell 'em the spoiler becomes really effective at sticking the car to the ground when it's gets over 160mph  ;D

I also like the explanations that people give me for putting the giant 3-wing spoilers on the back of their Eclipse.  I mostly just nod and smile   8)
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Offline 754

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2008, 08:06:50 PM »
4 wheeled cafe racers.....
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Offline toycollector10

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2008, 02:13:16 AM »
As  Shakespeare wrote in Henry the VI, "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". The third millenium call might be "The second thing we do, lets kill all those pricks have been educated beyond their natural intelligence hence the appalling call they have made over this. Those knob-ends are probably still in their 20's and wouldn't know sh*t from clay!  ;D I hope it all blows up in their faces.....
« Last Edit: April 02, 2008, 02:26:57 PM by toycollector10 »
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2008, 05:07:04 AM »
...usually it's a Civic with a wing on it...  :D

I always love it when people ask me what those spoilers are for...  I tell 'em the spoiler becomes really effective at sticking the car to the ground when it's gets over 160mph  ;D

I also like the explanations that people give me for putting the giant 3-wing spoilers on the back of their Eclipse.  I mostly just nod and smile   8)

In my mind it's called a spoiler because it spoils the look of the car...
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Offline sandcastcb750

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2008, 10:55:58 AM »
It is the lawyers suing the lawyers. Ford doesn't want to lose control of their product.

I have seen that happen before with models. MPC made a 1/25 Firebird as the TransAm without the logos or names. MPC would not pay for the T/A licensing fee. Union Pacific railroad and others demanded fees as well. Some models for which demand was low, never were licensed. In many cases the licensing fee was low; GM Ford and other reserved the right to see the product before granting any rights.

I know clubs are not a commmercial venture, but maybe if Ford gives this one away, it will be a precedent for other to argue that Ford is wrong collecting or controlling. Clearly, they don't want that.

A good example is the sidewalk (I can't remember the name) in New York City that they close once a year to mantain ownership. 364 days a year it's open to the public.

Another example is ESSO. Less than every 6-7 years or so, Exxon sells ESSO oil at the service station. Clearly marked as ESSO made by EXXON. If they don't protect their product, eventually, it becomes public domain.

I suspect all these clubs, including SOHC4, will have to ask for permission to use the logos names for any money making venture.

Remember, SOHC4, has a 2008 calendar that may have to meet the scrutiny of Honda too. Remember the club got 17%.

Just my 2 cents


Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2008, 01:45:13 PM »
Are you an attorney? ;) Just kidding. Sadly, what you say makes sense, though it is too bad it has to be that way.
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2008, 02:09:52 PM »
Think back to the situation with Reproduction Decals when Honda told them to stop making replacement stickers for the SOHC CB's. Honda doesn't make the bike or that particular "part" anymore, but they can still shut folks down if they want to.
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2008, 02:39:21 PM »
I guess I think rather simplistically. If I were one of these manufacturers, I would love to see my brand name out there and I find it hard to believe that these calendars or T-shirts would threaten the ownership of the logos... but then I'm neither and attorney nor particularly litigious.
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Offline mattcb350f

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2008, 03:00:04 PM »
This just goes to show that Ford's problems aren't just their products. Too bad.... O'l Henry's dream going down the crapper.
I think I remember learning that rule one of marketing is don't threaten your customers  :D
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2008, 03:24:59 PM »
I guess I think rather simplistically. If I were one of these manufacturers, I would love to see my brand name out there and I find it hard to believe that these calendars or T-shirts would threaten the ownership of the logos... but then I'm neither and attorney nor particularly litigious.

Branding is a very powerful sales tool.
The manufacturers want to control the association of their brand logos.  This is done by using fees for use of the logo.  This way, they can charge minimal fees for uses that associate well with their logo and excessive fees for those associations which cast them in a poor light. You'll see more of this control as the Web and vehicles like You tube become even more popular and useful as a sales tool.
Advertising uses association to make you feel good, either subliminally or outright, whenever you see their logo or brand name.  This leads to consumers preferring their brand and being outright loyal to the brand name/logo.  This equates to sales dollars.

For example, if you post a picture of a dog pile with a company logo on it, the logo owner may demand you remove it, as this association does not advance the logo/Brand, and the logo is something you do not own or have legal control over.  The more people that see this picture, the more strongly you can expect legal action.

In order to retain control of said logo or brand name, the more vigorous you need to be attempting to control said name. Since, when these matters come before a court, incidents where you obviously ignored such control will be seen as detrimental to your cause.  And, the particular incident may be interpreted as you holding a grudge against a particular party.

This is a natural occurrence of a litigious happy society.  And, the desire to get something for no or little effort.

This is also happening in the model airplane industry, too.  Scale model airplane manufacturers are now seeing demand for royalties from sales of model kits, too.  There is not much margin for profit in these things and the fees manufacturers are asking, either adds significantly to the sales cost or makes kit manufacture completely uneconomical.  There is still some debate over whether the likeness of the completed model is actually copyrighted.  But using, say, the Cessna name on the box or decals incurs royalty fees.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 06:51:14 PM by TwoTired »
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Offline CrisPDuk

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2008, 05:16:56 PM »
I remember a similar thing happened a few years ago in the 1:24 model car world too.  The last of the 555 sponsored Subaru Impreza WRC cars was way later than the rest of that year's field coming out in kit form because Tamiya couldn't get an agreement from British American Tobacco ::)

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Offline sandcastcb750

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2008, 05:48:39 PM »
You will notice that many model kits have the "Officially licensed by ----" on the box. I have seen some reproduction reissued AMT 3in1 kits where they re-did the artwork to eliminate items on the box that were not licensed; there in 1964, missing in 2008.

Anyway, I figure Ford figured that the Mustang group was way too big, out of hand, and perhaps these calendars were going to non-members for profit. Maybe in stores? Ford pulled in the ropes.

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Offline mrblasty

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2008, 06:47:39 PM »
How do you spell #$%*s in four letters?




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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2008, 08:48:44 PM »
Well, now that we've discussed the hell out of this, and convicted Ford of being a bunch of meanies, has anybody actually seen the calendar in question?

For all we know, it might be a bunch of axe murderers posing with skulls on the hoods of their Mustangs.
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Offline ttr400

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2008, 09:57:49 PM »
Check out BMC again and you wil see that this issue is resolved. more of a problem with the printer cafe press.
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2008, 03:51:42 AM »
Here is a link to the final resolution message on BMC's website, along with a letter from Ford:

http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42820
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Offline oldfordguy

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2008, 10:01:13 AM »
4 wheeled cafe racers.....
I disagree with that analogy.  Cafe racers have had things removed to lighten them, improving handling & acceleration.  These "wings" they add to these little cars only degrade their performance.


Offline UnCrash

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2008, 03:54:09 PM »
I'm glad they cleared up that mess.

Interesting that it takes someone from Communications to clear up a Legal mess   :D :D :D

Sounds like CafePress jumped the gun.  Makes me wonder if their legal department is gun-shy. ;D

Thanks for posting the resolution link.
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Offline heffay

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2008, 04:04:58 PM »
zazzle.com deleted all of our stuff too because of the word Honda

interesting to find out that we were thinking about going back to cafepress to avoid the problem only this ford thing happened via cafepress.

just let us love our rides and show our pride for gawds sake!
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2008, 05:00:07 PM »
It is kind of scary how quick everyone is to blame the company without finding out what really happened.

I guess it is just really easy to believe the whole "evil, rich corporation" theme.

Goes to show you why Marx is so popular, even though he just don't make no damned sense.
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Offline GoatBaSS

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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2008, 06:36:34 AM »
Karl or Groucho? ;D

Threats then facts. The way of the world unfortunately...
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Re: Ford Corp sends cease and desist over Fan Club Calendar
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2008, 10:24:59 AM »
Well after hearing for the last 7 years with GW, we are used to threats then facts. We are also used to the facts not justifying the threats. ::)