Author Topic: Steering with the clubman handlebars?? (Read 11624 times)

78_SaltLick · « **on:** July 31, 2005, 04:10:34 AM »

So i just put on clubman handlebars onto a CB750 K8, and drove it around the block to check it out. Am i crazy or is the steering with these handles on WAY different than the traditional bars? I knew it would be a little different, but dam its a good thing no cars were in the opposite lane when i made my first right hand turn, my bike went directly into the opposite lane when i turned. Im use to leaning around corners, with these bars, do you physically turn them more? Anyone want to share thier experiece using these bars?

heffay · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2005, 07:00:03 AM »

you probably will feel like there is more "control" once you get used to them and there may very well be. there is probably just a bit more of your body weight over the forks in turn giving you less of that washy steering feel that the stockers give.

also, a word on maneuvering your cycle. you should really not be steering OR leaning as much as putting slight pressure on the bars. at speed... the bars should be given pressure in the opposite direction of the curve... this will begin to throw the weight of the bike toward the inside of the curve. you will have much more control of the cycle with this method rather than trying to throw your own weight around all over the cycle. this method allows you to be "one with the motorcycle".

Uncle Ernie · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2005, 08:03:13 AM »

Mr Heffay is talking about a technical term called "counter steering". A term that has become a bit controversial as some people, including a famous track school teacher, believe that to be bunk and that you do indeed turn mainly by shifting weight. Countersteering posits that you use it naturally every time you turn, but that if you do it on purpose, it gives one a bit more control and quicker response. To turn right, pull on the left bar and/or push on the right end. The opposite for a left turn. This is done initially only to get the turn started. David Hough has a couple of books that explain these things in understandable terms without getting TOO caught up in the physics.
Other little things help, also, like putting weight on the inside peg, throwing your shoulder/weight to the inside, etc.
My understanding of clubmans is that they are to imitate "clip-ons" that are used for racing. The effect is to produce less wind resistance but mainly getting your weight lower and farther forward gives more control over the front wheel. They are definitely NOT a long ride comfort thing.

May we assume you installed them because they look cool?

Uncle Ernie · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2005, 08:11:25 AM »

Forgot to mention that, depending on your size and arm length, clubmans will probably lengthen your reach which may (ironically) make the bike feel bigger and less controlable. Sounds like that might be what's going on in your case.

78_SaltLick · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2005, 08:17:32 AM »

Heck no man. I race people all the time to work...........

Of course i put them on there to look cool.

Yeah basically ive always just liked the look of them, and since i dont plan on riding this old bike much farther than around town or maybe to work, didnt think it would be a problem. I guess i was just surprised at how much different it was to ride with them, or maybe its the weight of the bike, or a combo. Basically the only bike ive ever ridden was a honda 250 with cruiser bars back when i was 18. This old 750 is heavy, or it seems like it to me, i think i just have to get use to it, it just seemed like the dam thing didnt want to make a sharp right turn from a stop sign.

Uncle Ernie · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2005, 09:47:54 AM »

I know exactly what you mean. I put all these changes into a bike, including clubmans, and I hated it so much I got rid of it. All of a sudden it just felt too big and heavy. On the road it was fine, but in town it felt like I was hanging on by my fingertips. Good luck~

Harry · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2005, 12:00:22 PM »

I took my clubmans off a week ago and replaced with Virago bars, slightly tilted up. The riding style is so, so different - steering a curve is 10 times more fun now - so much better its like having a new bike. With the clubmans I sort of threw the bike into curves, now I flow through the curves far smoother and with less effort. The clubmans looked cool but I´m glad they´re gone.

pmpski_1 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2005, 12:54:30 PM »

Anyone have comparisons to the flat Drag bars vs. Clubmans vs. the normal bars? I have some clubmans waiting to be put on, but it sounds like it may be a PITA to ride. But damn, they sure do look cool.

Thanks

78_SaltLick · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2005, 12:59:52 PM »

Well, once you get going its not bad, steered like normal, actually once you get past 2nd gear its fine, i was able to ease up on the handlebars a bit, raise up my posture, seems like going slow in 1st gear and going slow around turns is what is wierd. Maybe ill get use to it, i think i just have to practice. I mean, these things were put on originally to take corners fast right? Maybe thats the problem, they arent meant to take corners slow.......

Chris Liston · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2005, 04:06:47 PM »

You might want to look into Euro Bars. I have them on my bike. There basically the same as the superbike style bars except 1/2in. higher. Same ergo shape as stockers but lower. They feel great and your not overly leaned over the bike. Really helped out when going into corners too.

cben750f0 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2005, 05:30:31 PM »

had clubmans on the F!, and decided i was gonna doa trip to melbourne, which is a three hour ride form here(albury)... got to melbourne , and went looking for an old set of standard bars!!!!, i have back trouble and have trouble looking over my shoulders, but with the clubmans, DAM, they were just plain painfull, and dangerous for me.... look the sh#t, but you wouldnt want to be going anywhere of great didtance, and thats comming from a block thats 6'1... did you find that you tended to steer 'AROUND' the steering head?.. as opposed to the steering head being the middle of you steering point(hard to explain sorry)..?... peace

Uncle Ernie · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2005, 06:47:49 PM »

Cben is a tired little racer tonight. Off to bed little fast guy- and send me a couple of whatever you had tonight in the morning!

Right then- clip-ons and clubmans are for going around turns and sweepers fast. Not corners in town slow (or fast either, for that matter). For track use, they're great. For compliments at gas stations and bars, they absolutely excel. The faster you go, the more the wind supprts your body weight, too. That's the main reason oldbiker has a prescription for speed- for his bad back. Well, I digress. I recommend superbike bars, or some such.

cben750f0 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2005, 08:42:48 PM »

bloody hell UNC... did i wrong you in a former life?

78_SaltLick · « **Reply #13 on:** August 01, 2005, 06:46:52 AM »

So what is up with people saying you have to steer in the opposite direction you are turning? This does not compute.....If im at a stop sign and i want to turn right.....when i take the turn i sure as heck aint going to turn the hadlebars to the left, to go right?? Right??? Sorry about this stupid question, but ive heard it from more than one person now,.....so i must be misunderstanding what they are getting at. I hope.

kghost · « **Reply #14 on:** August 01, 2005, 07:20:13 AM »

Countersteering refers to when the bike is rolling.

The wheels are big gyroscopes and are governed by gyroscopic presession (SP?).

This means that force applied to a spinning body (the wheel) will act 90 degrees before the point where the force is applied.

When you initiate a turn on a bike you push the bar in the direction you wish to go. Or pull the bar opposite the direction of turn.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #15 on:** August 01, 2005, 08:06:55 AM »

Saltlick,

It's usually so subtle you may not realize you are doing it. Ever ride a bicycle?

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2005, 08:33:25 AM »

If you wanna experience the counter steering, when coasting at 40-70 mph (say in 4th gear) on a straigth line, put the bike in the middle of the lane and slightly push -say- the right handle, like trying to turn left. You will see that the bike starts to lean to the right, and if you want to continue straigt you can put your body weight to the left. So the bike is leaning and with your bodyweight you correct the direction. Then try the other side. It's very easy to check how strange the feeling is and also how we have done it sometimes without noticing. It's far easier to lean the bike by countersteering than by leaning.

Raul

TwoTired · « **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2005, 09:17:58 AM »

Maybe this will help.
Assume forward motion. When you turn the bike, it does not stay upright and perpendicular to the horizontal surface, it leans. There are now lateral forces that push the bike's center of gravity vector away from vertical but at an angle so the down force is still more or less under the tire contact patch. To maintain the lean angle the front wheel will be turned in the direction of the turn so that the lateral forces maintain the CG over the tire contact patch. But, how did we get into the lean and how do we get out of the lean?

Try to visualize where the center of gravity is on the bike with mounted driver. It is some point between tire contact and rider's brain. So, let's say there is a line drawn fore and aft at the center of gravity you visualized. If the bike were stopped and laid over horizontal, it would balance and be stable with a fulcrum on this line. If you pushed down on the rider's brain, the wheels would come up, and vise-versa.

Counter steering does the same thing while riding. If you want the riders brain to go right into a lean the front wheel is initially turned left to pivot that bike about the CG until it reaches the lean angle required for a stable turn. Then the front wheel is turned to the right to maintain the turn. If you forced the wheel straight while in the turn the lean would increase until...ouch. To recover from the leaning turn, the front wheel is turned deeper into the lean. The wheel track forces the bike to pivot around CG forcing the bike into a more vertical position.

The front steering geometry (rake and trail) determine how neutral the steering is while upright and leaned over. But, pushing or pulling on the bar ends change that balance. Try it while in motion. Momentarily push on the right bar feel the weight shift and find the leaning in a right turn . You can counteract the turn by shifting rider weight left while pushing on the right bar. This, of course, moves the CG. The demonstration is more effective if the rider maintains a rigid position on the bike.

Initial counter steering can be used to quickly get into a leaned over tight turn. And, also to straighten up rapidly.

Uncle Ernie · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2005, 06:33:37 PM »

Yeah !

Cben, I was just pulling your ear. I don't even take my self seriously, so it's always a surprise when someone else does. I intended no harm or insults. When Kathleen gets over her diet (I've lost 5 pounds already!), we'll invite you over for dinner so you can explain what you wrote.

chippyfive50 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2005, 06:57:09 PM »

That was a nice physics lesson TT, nice visuals, seriously. I stuck the drag bars on my 550 street thing and found the standard width to be to narrow, but they did look cool. I went with a very slight rise and a near 30" width and it is SO nice, Archimedes would like it. It feels like a 60's Triumph, but a LITTLE smoother. I rode my friends 75 suzuki T500(2 stroke) with clubmans for about 20 miles this weekend, I had to go for a chiropractic treatment, acupuncture and aroma-therapy.

Buffo · « **Reply #20 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:15:12 PM »

I like my clubmans.

Don

MikeDeB · « **Reply #21 on:** August 04, 2005, 12:45:48 AM »

I must be one of the few odd ducks out there.

I have clubmans on my K2 and just love them. Love the riding position and love the way the bike handles with them. I much prefer it over sitting upright. Of course, my 900 SS has clip-ons and my Monster has a modern version of the clubmans so I guess that's the riding style I prefer.

Uncle Ernie · « **Reply #22 on:** August 04, 2005, 06:09:11 PM »

Well... there's sporty, and then there's "NURSE!" Now that SR500 has a naturally high bar that really responds well to a much lower bar. My opinion there.

78_SaltLick · « **Reply #23 on:** August 04, 2005, 08:37:26 PM »

Since i am the joker that originated this thread, thought id give an update. Today i took my bike to a parking lot and practiced on it. I am steadily getting better with the clubmans, at least i can turn a corner without going up onto the curb

I can make a left hand turn no problem, in fact it feels real good. Im tucked down, and can make a sharp left in low speeds. Making a right turn is harder for me for some reason, so i practice more. They dont seem to be so bad given some time. I took about an hours ride today, stopped alot and half of that was in the parking lot.....but yeah my back and wrists sure were feeling it after about an hour. Ive noticed i find it hard trying to find neutral on this bike. I just gotta get use to it, i guess every bike has stuff you gotta get use to.

TwoTired · « **Reply #24 on:** August 04, 2005, 11:56:13 PM »

It is easier to find neutral if the gearbox is still turning a tiny bit. Go to neutral JUST before you stop. Or, rock the bike fore and aft just a little and it should slip into neutral more easily.

Or, your clutch is dragging a little.

News:

Author Topic: Steering with the clubman handlebars?? (Read 11624 times)

Buffo