Topic: H.I.D. Front Headlight - Questions...

[754]

I have sitting here an alternator from a Nighthawk.. whick looks like a CBX style and mount behind the crank.. making things narrower.

Anyway, the thought entered my mind that this could be fitted to the crank on a 750 sohc... giving a narrower width and smaller OD  charging system...lokks doable, and I kept the fined regulator?

Question is, the output similar to a cb 750, and is it geared up.. ie, overdriven in its original application.

The reason I started looking at it is, I figured it might be cool to have a left side belt driven alternator near the starter (to match the magneto on the right side).. then I started thinking.. what about on the crank.

The cool thing is it is lighter than the stock parts by a lot.. nearly  the same  lbs what you can take off your crank...plus a belt drive with idler would allow  a 40 second removal time meaning the crank is not spinning ANY of that if you pull the belt off to race!!

[brandon]

First, Candlepower is the place to start for a housing.  They make one that fits the odd 350/400F size.  162 MM (I think).  Then go here;
http://www.hid-sin.com/motorcycles.htm
This is an HID system specifically for M/Cs.  Get the H-4.  It will fit the housing from Candlepower.  It will produce more than enough light compared to todays bikes with the current draw of the stock headlight(35w for a 350F).

There are some interesting points in this thread. Thanks for all the contributions and debate. With what is quoted above, can anyone confirm that this would be a proper way to go?

Also, browsing around ebay, there are 'motorcycle kits' that are half the price than what is advertised in the website that I quoted.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/h4-XENON-HID-CONVERSION-KIT-headlights-8k-H-I-D_W0QQitemZ110215343381QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110215343381

First observation is that the kit that is quoted above, seems to be more or less the same, parts wise. Another observation is that the ebay kit is at a light spectrum that is less than ideal. Also, the ebay kit would be for enough parts to do two motorcycles.

As far as light spectrum goes, personally, anything outside of 3000K to 6000K is at a light spectrum that is insufficient. The higher the K number and the closer the light gets into the purple and ultru purple light, which is terrible for human vision.

[UnCrash]

which is terrible for human vision.

Time to let Fido do the night driving!

[754]

Anyone got any idea of the drive ratio of the Nighthawk alternator I spoke of a gew posts back??

 If it is gear driven just get me a tooth count...

driven
--------    = ratio
driver

[coyotecowboy]

Like I said, you can get more than 100 watts from a rewired stator. Check this link to a rewiring shop for offroad bikes.

https://www.bajadesigns.com/net/mainframe2.aspx?login=YES&category=MCYCLE

I had mentioned this last year sometime and nobody seemed real interested   I need to pull mine off and ship it to them and have it rewound, I'd really like to have some Gerbings liners, heated grips, a 12 volt plug to take a laptop and recharge a phone or camera, somewhere to plug a GPS into, more lights, the possibilities are endless....

[brandon]

First, Candlepower is the place to start for a housing.  They make one that fits the odd 350/400F size.  162 MM (I think).  Then go here;
http://www.hid-sin.com/motorcycles.htm
This is an HID system specifically for M/Cs.  Get the H-4.  It will fit the housing from Candlepower.  It will produce more than enough light compared to todays bikes with the current draw of the stock headlight(35w for a 350F).

All I could find on the Candlepower website were replacement sealed headlamps with H4 bulb conversions. Maybe you have a link to the housing that you speak of?

I had to ride home in the rain tonight. As fun as that was, I couldn't see anything. Motivated to get this little H.I.D. project under way. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[eurban]

Candlepower makes reflector housings that take a separate H4 bulb.  On their website they have these reflector units in different sizes one of which will presumably fit the 400fs headlight bucket / trim ring assembly.   Actually, in their motorcycle headlamp section I did not see anything other than these reflector units although some come with the separate bulbs and some do not.  Find the one that fits your bucket/trim.  The typical H4 bulb is halogen but can be replaced with a H4 HID unit.  I believe this is what the suggestion was. . . .

[eurban]

OK, so there must be 1000s of hits on Ebaymotors if you enter "H4 HID"  Some of these are two bulb / ballast kits for a price of less than $30.  What are you getting (other than one less bulb / ballast) for the extra $100+ from a place like www.hid-sin.com   ? Is their item really better?  Is there a happy medium between their stuff and the $30 stuff?

[333]

Not knowing, I would like to know if the car units(2 bulb/ballast) has 2 separate ballasts, or will a combined ballast drive only 1 bulb.  Assuming a similar setup to a 2 tube flourescent, you pop out one tube, the other goes out.  Although, I would like to think it doesn't do that on your car.

I do know that H-4 is H-4.  There is a difference between the reflectors in the "pattern" of light is shown, but the bulb is the same fit.

[eurban]

Not knowing, I would like to know if the car units(2 bulb/ballast) has 2 separate ballasts, or will a combined ballast drive only 1 bulb.  Assuming a similar setup to a 2 tube flourescent, you pop out one tube, the other goes out.  Although, I would like to think it doesn't do that on your car.

I do know that H-4 is H-4.  There is a difference between the reflectors in the "pattern" of light is shown, but the bulb is the same fit.

The car units have two ballasts, one for each bulb.

[brandon]

Like stated in another post in this thread, there are tons of these HID kits on ebay. For half the price you get enough parts to do one car or two motor cycles where as the link that someone provided for the 'motorcycle HID kit' came with enough parts to do one motorcycle and cost over half as much as the ebay stuff.

I'm curious as the the quality too. All this stuff I'm sure is made in the same country, with each company selling the same stuff, and marketing it all differently.

One more day down...and I still haven't ordered any parts. So...does anyone know where I can get a proper headlight bucket measuring 162mm to fit the H4 bulb? That website Candlepower.com doesn't have anything of the sorts or I'm really bad at general searching

[Bodi]

http://store.candlepower.com/ca53mohe.html
There are 162mm ones. They have a "multi bracket). I would like to know if this bracket can use the 3-point adjusting mounts of the Honda headlight shell.

[HondaMan]

Keep one thing in mind, guys: an H4 bulb is 55w/60w (sometimes 55w/65w). This means that regardless of how you derive the power to light it, it will require 55w/60w. Adding HID does not change this wattage, and HID does not make extra power: rather, it uses MORE power to create the hi-frequency bulb power. Be careful what you pick out for this project!

At one time, there were halogen bulbs of 35w/45w power. The light, like typical halogen, was far brighter. There was an entire retrofit from Rocky for the 350F in 1974, when I was still a racing wrench. It was $35 (1970s money), very expensive at the time. I haven't found those H(?) bulbs yet, but when I do, I'm going to present a kit for the Little Fours...

It's possible, I hope, to install a single-beam small halogen in the 162mm size, thanks to Candlepower. But, they don't seem to have ALL the parts, still working on it....even a 40w halogen would be a big improvement!

[brandon]

Most all the auctions that I've viewed thus far, for motorcycles are all with 35 watt ballasts. Can't go wrong there then.

Another thing is how to come up with some kind of cut off line, like most automobiles have. I don't want to blind oncoming traffic.

What about the bucket melting? These bulbs get far hotter than the old OEM ones I'm sure.

[brandon]

http://store.candlepower.com/ca53mohe.html
There are 162mm ones. They have a "multi bracket). I would like to know if this bracket can use the 3-point adjusting mounts of the Honda headlight shell.

Excuse my noobness here. I found those while searching the candlepower website, but was under the impression that those are incorrect? I thought that I needed a proper bucket to fit the extra long H4 bulb along with all the wiring that is stuffed in there?

[eurban]

Keep one thing in mind, guys: an H4 bulb is 55w/60w (sometimes 55w/65w). This means that regardless of how you derive the power to light it, it will require 55w/60w. Adding HID does not change this wattage, and HID does not make extra power: rather, it uses MORE power to create the hi-frequency bulb power. Be careful what you pick out for this project!

Hondaman-
If reading is believing (I have no first hand experience) a true HID (not those H4 bulbs that offer "HID like lighting") setup will make more light with less power.  As mentioned the (separate) ballasts are typically designed to draw 35watts of power and the bulb produces a very potent light.  The HIDs with high and low beam either use a solenoid to physically move the light source to a different position or they seem to use a second light source in a different position.  The current draw and light output doesn't change.  Also, heat output is supposedly not a concern.  Is this too good to be true?  Don't know.  In short, the apparent attraction of a HID conversion is dramatically improved lighting with a current draw similar to stock. . . . If you are going to spend the time to make a lighting kit for the amperaged impaired 4s (750s with a charging system in a good state of tune, seem to be OK with higher draw halogen headlights although a relay might be wise to protect the wiring / switches) you might want to investigate this technology a bit.  It seems to be the way that automotive lighting is heading.  It also might be a load of BS

[brandon]

Well, I've been re-reading what people have to say on here, as well as what I can find on the internet about H.I.D. in general. I'm feeling more confident about this conversion and I am starting the process as we speak.

I just ordered the 6 3/8" (162mm) Headlamp from Candlepower that comes with a Halogen H4 bulb. http://store.candlepower.com/ca61quhahe.html

I'll also probably do this auction through ebay on this kit here, which is a Bi-Xenon bulb. The dude has mega good feedback and everyone seems to be pretty stoked on the product sold, his shipping is just a PITA  : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BI-XENON-HID-CONVERSION-KIT-H4-3-For-Motorcycle-Bike_W0QQitemZ290199909748QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290199909748

What I plan on doing, since I live on a long street that is very flat and has no street lights is do a side by side by side comparison of all three bulbs with the low beam on only.
Standard Old School Headlight (which I have now)
Halogen Headlight
H.I.D. Headlight

I think I may be able to use a light meter that is used for shooting proper photography to possibly yield some kind of valuable data about the light output of all three bulbs. I'm not sure how I'll exactly do this yet... I'll also take several pictures of each from different angles to help give an idea.

[TwoTired]

I think I may be able to use a light meter that is used for shooting proper photography to possibly yield some kind of valuable data about the light output of all three bulbs. I'm not sure how I'll exactly do this yet... I'll also take several pictures of each from different angles to help give an idea.

Light meters for photography are often spot reading devices.  These will not measure total light from a beam spread, only a portion of the spread.   Since different lights often have a different spread or reflector pattern, comparison among them will be inaccurate.  Unless, of course you are only concerned with just one specific spot on the road.

Your lighting may vary.

Cheers,

[brandon]

Light meters for photography are often spot reading devices.  These will not measure total light from a beam spread, only a portion of the spread.   Since different lights often have a different spread or reflector pattern, comparison among them will be inaccurate.  Unless, of course you are only concerned with just one specific spot on the road.

Your lighting may vary.

Cheers,

That is what I suspecting...well then, I'll just take some high res pictures for comparison. 

[Bob Wessner]

The meter thing might still be worth a try if the meter has an "incident" capability to meter a light source rather than reflected light.

[dave400]

The lens and mirror are a different design on headlights designed for filament bulbs and H.I.D bulbs because of the position of the light source, it is illegal to put a H.I.D bulb in a non H.I.D lens/mirror unit in the UK because of the light scatter/glare it produces to oncoming traffic at night. Some people still do it though and dazzel oncoming drivers.

[eurban]

The lens and mirror are a different design on headlights designed for filament bulbs and H.I.D bulbs because of the position of the light source, it is illegal to put a H.I.D bulb in a non H.I.D lens/mirror unit in the UK because of the light scatter/glare it produces to oncoming traffic at night. Some people still do it though and dazzel oncoming drivers.

While this may be true, it really doesn't make too much sense.  The HID bulbs that replace the Halogen H4s fit in the same location and should emit light from about the same location.  How is the light source positioned differently?  A properly formed and adjusted reflector should "aim" the light regardless of how it is produced.  Perhaps the light of the HID being more intense, is revealing the the imperfections in the quality of the reflector lens, and the skills of those who are aiming them!   . . . . .

10 minutes later . . . .OK so I googled for "HID illegal" and came up with some hits.  Apparently the HID setups are bright enough that they do require a "projector" style assembly that creates a sharp cutoff.  This would keep oncoming drivers from being "blinded"  It is doubtful that the typical h4 motorcycle replacement refelector lens is technically up to the task.  Another ? mark on this subject I guess.  Here's a quote from one of the google hits . . . .

"9.  Are HID's legal?
Installing HID's into a vehicle not originally equipped with them from the factory is technically illegal.  Practically speaking, you stand little chance of being cited for them provided you educate yourself on the requirements of HID lighting and take the necessary steps to ensure you have the right equipment and adjustments to keep it safe.  That is, make sure your vehicle's headlight assembly uses an appropriately designed projector lense (as opposed to a reflector), and of course that your headlights are properly aligned after installation.  Many newer vehicles use projector lenses because stock halogen bulbs also benefit from the "light shaping", but having just any old projector lense does not necessarily ensure that the beam pattern will be correct.  It is absolutely essential for HID's to give the light output a sharp cutoff line to prevent blinding oncoming traffic.  As HID's become more popular, aftermarket projector housings are being produced for some vehicles.

The Department of Transportation (DOT) states that improperly-installed HID's are getting a lot of complaints.  Vendors will usually include a disclaimer that they are intended for offroad use only, but it's no secret that people don't follow this rule.  Now, there are a lot of aftermarket automotive parts that qualify as illegal but aren't strictly enforced.  Logically, the safety implications of blinding oncoming drivers are more serious than, say, an exhaust that exceeds the legal noise level.  So the DOT has actively gone after vendors of HID conversion kits, threatening monetary fines if they continue selling them, and consequently there are now fewer places to buy them."

[dave400]

The lens and mirror are a different design on headlights designed for filament bulbs and H.I.D bulbs because of the position of the light source, it is illegal to put a H.I.D bulb in a non H.I.D lens/mirror unit in the UK because of the light scatter/glare it produces to oncoming traffic at night. Some people still do it though and dazzel oncoming drivers.

While this may be true, it really doesn't make too much sense.  The HID bulbs that replace the Halogen H4s fit in the same location and should emit light from about the same location.  How is the light source positioned differently?  A properly formed and adjusted reflector should "aim" the light regardless of how it is produced.  Perhaps the light of the HID being more intense, is revealing the the imperfections in the quality of the reflector lens, and the skills of those who are aiming them!   . . . . .

10 minutes later . . . .OK so I googled for "HID illegal" and came up with some hits.  Apparently the HID setups are bright enough that they do require a "projector" style assembly that creates a sharp cutoff.  This would keep oncoming drivers from being "blinded"  It is doubtful that the typical h4 motorcycle replacement refelector lens is technically up to the task.  Another ? mark on this subject I guess.  Here's a quote from one of the google hits . . . .

"9.  Are HID's legal?
Installing HID's into a vehicle not originally equipped with them from the factory is technically illegal.  Practically speaking, you stand little chance of being cited for them provided you educate yourself on the requirements of HID lighting and take the necessary steps to ensure you have the right equipment and adjustments to keep it safe.  That is, make sure your vehicle's headlight assembly uses an appropriately designed projector lense (as opposed to a reflector), and of course that your headlights are properly aligned after installation.  Many newer vehicles use projector lenses because stock halogen bulbs also benefit from the "light shaping", but having just any old projector lense does not necessarily ensure that the beam pattern will be correct.  It is absolutely essential for HID's to give the light output a sharp cutoff line to prevent blinding oncoming traffic.  As HID's become more popular, aftermarket projector housings are being produced for some vehicles.

The Department of Transportation (DOT) states that improperly-installed HID's are getting a lot of complaints.  Vendors will usually include a disclaimer that they are intended for offroad use only, but it's no secret that people don't follow this rule.  Now, there are a lot of aftermarket automotive parts that qualify as illegal but aren't strictly enforced.  Logically, the safety implications of blinding oncoming drivers are more serious than, say, an exhaust that exceeds the legal noise level.  So the DOT has actively gone after vendors of HID conversion kits, threatening monetary fines if they continue selling them, and consequently there are now fewer places to buy them."

Now why didn’t I explain it like that.

[eurban]

Did a bit more research . . . .Looks like there are a few companies that make a dedicated HID 7" round motorcycle headlight assemblies.  Attached is a Pic from a company called J.W. Speaker.  This (JW Speaker model 8100) setup is DOT legal and is apparently designed to project the light in the proper manner.  Their kit price is quite steep at around $400 but it is complete, meaning that it comes with the 7" round housing, high and low bulbs and the ballast, harness and ignitors.  It seems to be designed with the police industry (Harley) in mind and looks like it should fit a standard 7" headlight bucket and trim assembly.  How much room would be left over for wire connections is unknown.  So if you really have a bee up your butt to install HID on a SOHC  (I guess 400f owners with the smaller housings are SOL) and want something that is legal and seemingly kind to oncoming drivers, then here you go. . . . Looks pretty damn cool too!

[eurban]

Here it is for $350

http://oviedosafetylights.com/HID-Lighting/JW_SPEAKER_Model_8100_DOT_Approved_HID_Motorcycle_Headlight