Topic: CB360-multiple builds-cafe & brattracker

[crazypj]

Hi Folks, as the Honda twins site is still down I decided to post some stuff here.
After seeing the Australian (NZ?) clutch operating mech on 360 I cut one of mine similar as it looks cool.
 I also bored it to take Suzuki GS850 pistons (378cc)
If pics post they are of the GS and stock Honda pistons plus piston at top of cyl without base gasket
I also built a wider front rim onto hub (WM3)
PJ

[bill440cars]

        Hey PJ, Yeah, hopefully Mark will be able to get HondaTwins up and running before long and we can get back to business. Always interesting to see and hear about what kind of parts swapping you've come up with, to make things work out.

                                  Later on, Bill

[crazypj]

I wondered just how much material comes out of cylinders with bigger bore, about 3/4 pound of cast iron 
 If I can't find 100lbs to lighten in one place, I'll find 100 places to remove one pound (Maybe )
 (sad, I know, should find more important things to do with my time  )
PJ

[crazypj]

It's a runner.
35.48bhp @9,000rpm at the rear wheel!!!!!  (for comparison, Suzuki GS500 twin makes 41bhp with 20+yrs of development and an extra 122cc)
 milled about 0.025" off head, compression isn't too high, running 87 octane without any problems (next one is getting more milled and thinner head gasket)
 Its been revved high enough to get points bounce (probably 11,500 or so) loads of torque so I'll give up some of that for more high end HP ( I think there was a problem as I don't think the 44ft/lbs could possibly be correct, my XS650 was only making 37ft/lbs)
 Stock carbs with main jets drilled to 1.2mm, only slightly rich WOT, but lean almost everywhere else (expected)
 Going to fit some Mikuni 32mm carbs I've got kicking around but they are flange mount so I'm making manifold adapters.
PJ

[mlinder]

Hey PJ, we ae also building a 350 for the track. I thought, though, that 362 was the largest you could legally go. It is a gentlemens class, true, so no one should complain, but are the rules where you are at different?
The 44lb feet is probably correct. You've increased displacement, increased comprression, and are using a cam profile that's designed to get some grunt from a tiny, low compression engine.
At what RPM was it making 44 lbft?

[ohiocaferacer]

PJ.....you are my GOD!!

Best thing in the world is to tinker in the garage and find new ways of doing things....esp HP!!!

We still need to toy with a CB350 motor sometime....too bad i'm not closer

[ohiocaferacer]

Hey PJ, we ae also building a 350 for the track. I thought, though, that 362 was the largest you could legally go. It is a gentlemens class, true, so no one should complain, but are the rules where you are at different?
The 44lb feet is probably correct. You've increased displacement, increased comprression, and are using a cam profile that's designed to get some grunt from a tiny, low compression engine.
At what RPM was it making 44 lbft?

Mark,

Yeah....I think that 362 is the largest you can go in AHRMA....not sure about WERA or the others. Others may have a GP or Formula class with unlimited mods....dont know??

[crazypj]

Hey PJ, we ae also building a 350 for the track. I thought, though, that 362 was the largest you could legally go. It is a gentlemens class, true, so no one should complain, but are the rules where you are at different?
The 44lb feet is probably correct. You've increased displacement, increased compression, and are using a cam profile that's designed to get some grunt from a tiny, low compression engine.
At what RPM was it making 44 lb/ft?

What bore size makes 350 a 362cc? (67.5mm?)
I have some liners and 66.5mm Wiseco pistons I was going to use in friends 350.
 He ended up using a block with Power-Rol pistons (I didn't like them, visible pin offset, too much parasitic drag)
It only made 34.5bhp
He was happy, I wasn't so I haven't built him another motor (he's given up racing as far as I know)
They need a little work as they came out of an XR200 (don't remember if its the block or the pistons need modifying?)
The '200' made a max of 24.2bhp max (then broke a rod, 13,000+ rpm)
It was 'reliable' at 11,500 (22.3bhp)which should allow a twin to make around 47bhp
My bikes are CB360's, so its not legal for AHRMA, too new (1974, AHRMA cut off 1972  )
 If I could find a cheap CB350 I would be building one of those instead.
 Its going to be legal for CCS which are main events in Florida until you move into AMA (theres less than zero chance of that, too expensive)
 Stock cam in it as I'm trying to keep costs low as possible (drive chain, sprockets, tyres, steering damper and brake hose, etc are going to at least triple the cost so far)
 I'm not sure what rpm the max torque was, I'll check today  and see if I can get a print out (I was so surprised I never even thought to look  ) When I rode it, around 6,500 front end came up a LOT faster than I anticipated so I guess its around 6~7,000rpm (one second front is going light, feels good, next second, it's vertical) 
It is a brand new 'tight' top end though, I did the bore/hone myself so know its only 0.0015" clearance and a 'nice' cross hatch (the Yam had 13,000+ miles and is smoking quite a bit now at 27,000 +)
PJ

[mlinder]

PJ, I do believe, that if the model wasnt really 'changed' from 71 to 74, the bike is still legal.
We are racing a 73, though the cutoff line is 71. Bike is pretty much the same, so legal.
We are keeping stock pistons for now.
What we are doing:
racing cam chain and tensioner, ti retainers and heavy duty springs, thin copper head gasket, decked head (hoping for 10.5:1 CR or better with stock pistons), cleaned up intake and exhaust ports, 27" 2 into 2 exhaust, and a cam. Havent decided which yet. Will need to get some big mikunis as well.
Eventually will try to graft a BMW front drum brake on a cb450t front end up there, with progressive all around. Getting aluminum wheels soon.
Full fairing this week or next.
Eventually will be going ofr higher compression pistons and some better con rods for more top end.
We will see.

[crazypj]

The CB360 was a 'new' model in 1974.
Honda redesigned all the external components, crankcases, new cylinder and cylinder head, clutch cover, etc.
 Not sure if it has a different crank, its a 180 but some of the 350s were 180 and some 360?
 The rods are heavier with a 16mm pin (same stroke, 50.6mm)
 Straight cut primary drive and a trochoidal oil pump instead of plunger pump.
 I haven't tried fitting a CB360 crank into 350 cases (wonder why, I have a 'dead' 350 case???)
 I wont be able to try until weekend, will let you know if its possible
 forgot to mention, I posted on the Honda twins site but it seems to have gotten overlooked?
http://hondatwins.com/phpBB1/viewtopic.php?t=478
 I also have a couple of sets of Wiseco's for XR200, 66mm & 67mm, 15mm pin and some Honda ART 66mm with 15mm pins, if your interested?)
 All are used, but in good condition. Will need pistton pins as I can remember where I put them
(maybe in another engine? )
PJ

[mlinder]

What are the CR for the vario9us pistons there?
I may be very interested. I'd like to not, actually, deck the head. But I dont want to spend 500 bucks on high CR pistons right now.

[crazypj]

Not sure of CR, probably 11:1 or better. I don't have a CB350 piston handy to measure crown height, (I think its 24.5mm? from pin center to top of ring lands), the XR ones are 25.5mm approx.
PJ

[mlinder]

How much ya want?

[crazypj]

Finally finished intake manifolds to mount flange type carbs.(as I have a pair of 32mm Mikuni's)
I started on some clip on mounts as well as I'm not happy with the master cylinder position on the Pro-Flo clip on's.
 Will post pics soon.
 Heres pics.




 link to photobucket in case anyone is interested
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/
PJ

[crazypj]

Got right side mostly roughed out.
 Probably longer and stronger than it needs to be but will support bar better.
 I'm a bit paranoid about handlebars moving around
PJ

[mlinder]

That is really nice looking.

[crazypj]

Got severely carried away with a ball end mill.
 Need a very small amount of machine work on top edge and where bolt fits then its going to be filing and polishing time
PJ

[crazypj]

What with work and other stuff I haven been able to get anything done on bike for a while.
Finally got round to doing a compression test after running the bike on dyno.
When assembled it was showing only 150 psi, now its up to 240 psi both sides.
 I'm pretty sure 93 octane will be a better bet than the 2 yr old 87 octane I ran it on.
 I'm going to swap out carbs for some 32mm Mikuni's and get some further testing done
PJ

[crazypj]

Got a few things done today, Fitted the clip-on's I made, made a braided stainless brake line (and used heat shrink tube on it to make it colourful  )
I also swapped fork legs to put caliper behind fork.
 Put  a bunch of pics on photobucket.
 The original bars are still in position because I wanted to take some measurements.
 The clip-ons are 10.5" lower and 6" further forward.
 The frame in top right corner is going to be used for finished bike, its got almost all the brackets cut off and weighs 27lbs.
 I'm probably going to end up with two complete bikes eventually
PJ

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/CB360exhaust4.jpg http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/CB360Exhaust3.jpg http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/CB360exhaust2.jpg http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/CB360clip-on3.jpg http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/CB360clip-on4.jpg http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/1crazypj/Honda%20CB360/CB360clip-on1.jpg

[bill440cars]

         Hey PJ, Looking good guy! I haven't had time to check out the other pictures, but will get to them shortly. I'm sure, judging from this one and the previous ones, they will be well worth checking out. Keep up the good work and thanks for keeping us posted.


                                  Take care, Bill  

[bill440cars]

       Okay, now I have checked the other pictures and I have to say, nice work on the Clip-ons and on the exhaust too! Nice shots of them also. Appreciate your posting them.

                          Take care, Bill

[crazypj]

Hi Bill, the exhaust is going. thats just to allow me to run it in work. The pipe size is really too big at 1.5" primaries.
 It's also way too low for me, hanging out the left side.
I'm making something different, 1.25" into 1.375" into 1.5" stepped headers running slightly to right of centerline under sump then into a 1.75" outlet and a glasspack muffler. Going to run stock CV carbs (same as firs dyno run) and see what it does. Then I'm going to fit some 32mm Mikuni roundslides (I was going to use them on XS650 originally)
 I've also bought a pair of 33mm smoothbores ( used, slight damage o one but its only choke operating mechanism)
They need quite a lot of work on linkages (ain't paying $100+ from Sudco for the parts)
PJ

[SSCR]

Nothing new? Come on I'm living vicarious through your work.

[crazypj]

 Haven't been able to do much last few weeks, got bitten by some bug and my leg is 'nasty'
Don't know what it was, possibly Brown Recluse spider.  I think that puss coming out is a good thing? (at least it shows my body is fighting infection?) Need to get back to the quack, although I have a deep distrust of doctors practicing on me ( had a major allergic reaction to a medication few weeks ago as well)
 I'm doing two  CB 360'sat the same time (think I mentioned it previously?)
 The other is going to be a lot more modified than the one in pictures, not posting anything until its done.
I'm also working on three Yamaha XS650's (one is an 800, the other will be an 860, one more or less stock but getting an 800 sometime)
 I do 'long rod' conversions using Honda CR 500 connecting rods.
 one 800 motor is done but I'm doing a different chassis for it instead of fitting it to the stock 650  one.
Really need to service my Katana as well, got a 600 motor for it with a 750 top end that needs sorting out and fitting (would probably be a good idea to ride some of these things, haven't been for a ride since March and only taken Yamaha to work twice in 4 months.
Im really glad you posted though, knowing someone is 'watching is actually a major incentive. Thanks for posting, I'll get some welding done and post pics
 PJ

[CBGBs]

I'm watching as well, and get well soon. Those brown recluses will necrotise your skin, and thats a really bad thing.