Topic: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"

[Frankenkit]

Oh, hey, once I get the carbs figured out (at least inasmuch as they're not pissing everywhere)  I was wondering if I could have one of our PDX experts help me just tune everything right (valves, carb settings, etc) to make sure things *are* right.  I realize I don't really know these bikes (even bikes in general) to really seriously feel confident in my diagnosis of various sounds etc... and I just want it 'right' when I start so I know if/when things are 'wrong'.  Know what I mean?  

[Hush]

That's not a crazy idea Kits, you have done a lot of the labour work on your bike but like me the fine tuning is something best left to the experts.
I'm getting a retired Honda trained mechanic to do mine, he can set the carbs up for me, I've got the electronic timing spot on I know that much.
Good thought, at least you will start out with a known product and any change will be noticeable to you.

[MickeyX]

bump!

the bike is in the shop getting looked at yet again. I hope it doesn't run into too much $$$$ this time. those carbs are really irritating.

she keeps getting gunk and dirt. besides an in-tank filter, anything else we can do? maybe another inline filter? what kind would you guys suggest?

~X. 

[Soos]

I have and will continue to run an in-line filter.

I have even lined my tank as well, and STILL get gunk from the pump gas getting into my inline filter.

Paid like a buck or two at a local kawasaki shop.
WELL worth the $$.

Did kitsune replace the fuel shutoff needles?
Were the tips rubber, or metal?(can't remember whether metal or the rubber tipped ones are stock anymore)
I ran my 650 stocker carbs with rubber aftermarket ones(viton tipped i believe), and it helped a bit.


l8r

[Frankenkit]

Replaced 'em. They were rubber.

New weird sh*t:  the carbs (and every conceivable orifice) were full of some kind of jelly that, on drying turned into a crystally, chunky white substance.  WTF could it be?  I added a little seafoam to my gas, the gas tank may have had a little water in it after having been welded on, but not  enough that it worried me (until the bike started to run for crap...) and the gas was from Shell.  The liner for the tank is some kinda blue stuff used by a radiator shop that also does gas tanks quite frequently.

Any ideas?

Flushing the tank and using just straight gas (no seafoam...)  cleaning the carbs (every conceivable orifice), without passing GO or collecting $200.   

Soos, you said inline filters are still a good idea?  I thought a bunch of pple on here said b/c these bikes are essentially gravity fed, inline filters restrict fuel flow to a lethal degree? If that's not the case, then I'm headed to Honda with $2 in my pocket for cheap insurance...

[Hush]

Guess it depends on how restrictive the openings on the inline filter are?
I've never run any sort of inline filter, never found the need! "YET"!!
My 79 650 dosn't even have an in tank filter, not sure were that went?
What sort of lemon juice you guys over there using in your bikes?
I use SHELL petrol as I get a loyalty card thing (Fly buys) and find it to be the best of the petrols we have here in NZ.
About time your carbs sealed up Kits, mine finally did and I'm still using the old gaskets ( smeared the rubber bits in grease before refitting, old trick my dad taught me).
New-er) bike doesn't seem to have any problems with floods of gas or leaks so far.
If it's going to give you some form or reasurance Kits, I'd jam an inline filter on, you can muck around with retuning if you find it restricts gas flow too much.

[martino1972]

i bet it has to do with the seafoam in your fuel,it probably binded itself to whatever it found in your tank and settled in the carbs...

a good tank flush,fill with fresh fuel only and yeah,sorry,girl,a good cleaning of the carb's....

stay away from the inline filter,it can starve the bike off fuel on high rpm's.....

cleaning the carbs shouln'd be too bad to do,they can stay in the rack,lot's of carb cleaner and compressed air should do the trick ,but DO remove the idle jets again..!!!!

don't give up dear.....your in the finishing stretch.....
if you want i can even trade ya,my carbs for yours if you dont feel like cleaning em...
but a 2 hours spend on cleaning them should make you a happy rider easely......

[Hush]

And here was me thinking you'd reccomend to the poor girl to use a massive blow torch on them carbs, tich tich norty me.

Are you sure she should pull the carbs Marti? being a lazy bastad I'd drop the bowls and clean them out or even lazier (better?) just open the drain plugs and let the gunk flow out.
Ample crossing of fingers is also reccomended in the Hush version though.

[Soos]

Soos, you said inline filters are still a good idea?  I thought a bunch of pple on here said b/c these bikes are essentially gravity fed, inline filters restrict fuel flow to a lethal degree? If that's not the case, then I'm headed to Honda with $2 in my pocket for cheap insurance...

I have pulled the top speed my 650 will run at WOT with no loss in power.
A dirty airfilter restricts more than a inline filter to performance.
Yes they can be a PITA if you don't replace them each year though.
In fact I am running with bigger carbs, and have a lower than stock MPG(thereby flowing more fuel per mile) and have no problem topping out my speedionmeter... the '79cb650 speedometer reads 120, not 80 like the '80 and on 650's. I do run with the biggest inline fuel filter i can get to fit that the bike store sells though


And considering my tank is lined, (so no rust or metal bits from the tank) and my inline filter has gunk in it from running this year, even pump gas has crud in it. And yes I have the tank filter in too.

As to white  gooey stuff that turns crystally when dried... dunno.


l8r

l8r

[martino1972]

And here was me thinking you'd reccomend to the poor girl to use a massive blow torch on them carbs, tich tich norty me.

Are you sure she should pull the carbs Marti? being a lazy bastad I'd drop the bowls and clean them out or even lazier (better?) just open the drain plugs and let the gunk flow out.
Ample crossing of fingers is also reccomended in the Hush version though.

jelly doesn't drain well hush...

i wish,one of us was living close to kits......and was willing to drop by and get her going....
i would do it in a heartbeat,but i'm 2 day's driving away...

[Frankenkit]

Carbs are already off and totally dismantled (well, as much as you can do w/o unracking them...) and getting a good cleaning... then we'll see.  Soos, can you post a pic of your filter, or something a lot like it (like the ones at Z1?)

[martino1972]

and your draining your tank right???

how are they getting cleaned???.....i dropped mine in a bucket of carb cleaner,left them there for 24 hours,worked magic.......

[Soos]

Carbs are already off and totally dismantled (well, as much as you can do w/o unracking them...) and getting a good cleaning... then we'll see.  Soos, can you post a pic of your filter, or something a lot like it (like the ones at Z1?)

sorry camera is dead, met a watery demise... alas we shall miss him.

But anyway, these:
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=293
My current ones look a lot like those do. The origional pkg had like 5gpm flow rate or something.
 
I was over at my favorite local bike shop looking into new rubber for next year, and noticed they have them on their wall for 1.25 each.
But I think that my filter is over 1/4"(the one listed on Z1) though...mabey 5/16? 3/8? not sure.

One thing I have found is placing the filter so both ends are level with the ground works great, no matter what.(for me and so far. 4 years of using them on bikes about 8 or 9 filters used in all, 1 new one each year, each bike)

However, if you position the fuel filter with the ends facing straight up and down, the motor can act as if it's fuel starved.
You can tap on the filter and eventually manage to coax ALL the air out of the filter before running the filter and get rid of this problem, for a while.
And an air bubble will creep back in over time giving dead engine performance again.
I think it's the airbubble giving resistance to the flow? Not sure.


Mabey it's me and i'm nutz, but the 2 times i mounted the fuel filter straight up and down, i had problems.
Fine in town, but no highway speeds for long distances.
My father in law (an ex ford mechanic) told me that is the reason all canister type fuel filters on old ford cars and trucks are mounted with the connectors level with the ground.

Have done all others that way since then, with no problems.
Not always the same filter, but finding automotive ones small enough to fit under the tank and not touch the motor can be a PITA at times, but their size could aleviate your worries of fuel starvation.


MY carbs are using a remote vacuum operated fuel valve(from a set of CV 650 carbs...to help stupid proof the bike when i forget the petcock), as well as a inline filter.
I have my fuel being run through two potential restrictors for the fuel flow, and still I have absolutely no problem pulling a ton.


l8r

[Frankenkit]

Actually had a good friend clean the carbs for me and take a look at stuff while I was working all day Sunday and at school all day today.  Tank looks ok, but when the guy welded on the new petcock bung, he lengthened it a bit, so  by the time I run out of gas at 'on', I'm really, really freakin' low, unless I lengthen the tube somehow or replace it, but then  unless I take the in-tank filter out the filter would be too short to accomodate a tube of preferable length.

  I'm wondering about lengthening the parts concerned (the tube and the filter) in addition to running an in-line to catch whatever crap might still be lurking in the tank (although it's been flushed and apparently the bike now runs like a top) I was going to buy an inline filter from Z1 along with some clear fuel tubing so I can *see* the quality of gas flow, but I'd like to know your input.

[Soos]

If you run an inline filter, how often do you change it? (assuming it is actually trapping particles, it will plug up over time)

Once a year.
And yes it traps lits here and there.
Better to pay 2.00 a year, than have to rebuild my carbs more often IMO.

l8r

+1 on checking the hardnsess of your liner.
I have had to pull one out because the guy put BG44K in his tank, and it ate the liner.
looked like a plastic bag in the ocean it was ate away so bad.

[mystic_1]

Get one of these:



Then if you don't want the inline filtering, remove the filter element.  Zero flow restriction, it becomes a sight glass.


mystic_1

[Hush]

I'm definately with Two Tired on the clear tube thing Kits, I used some of that on my boat last year and the gas ate it so bad I nearly powered a Roman candle home!!
That clear stuff is OK for doing brake bleeding etc but not for constant petrol usage.
I don't and never have run any sort of inline filter, not saying it's a good thing just never found the need.
Pleased to hear your bike is getting some love Kits, maybe now you can smile again when you jump on "D".

[Soos]

nevermind.....

[Frankenkit]

well, the clear tubing is the stuff off Z1, so we'll see what kind of quality it has... I tend to think the same way about clear tubing, so I'll keep an eye on it and see if it starts hardening etc. 

Re: the inline filter- Soos, I'm still going to try running one until I can figure out my on/reserve problem.  I *do not* want to run without a filter altogether, but the lengthened bung turns my 'on' into 'reserve' and my 'reserve' into 'oh, the last tablespoon or so you have in your tank' so unless I can lengthen the 'on' tube that runs into the 'on' portion of the petcock, and then lengthen the filter accordingly, in a way that will be sturdy, not inhibit fuel flow, etc etc so and so, I may have to run without an in-tank filter. 

It's not 'do I run an inline or an in-tank', it's 'how do I mod my in-tank one enough so I still have a reserve', or 'do I just do a lot of guessing until I'm sure of my mpg, then go by my trip odometer' but I did get an inline filter just in case I figure out how to keep it horizontal for maximum fuel flow.  My last one got gummed up REAL fast, so I do value them.

[MickeyX]

hee hee hee. I rode D home tonight for Kit since it was nasty, rainy, dark, idiots out there and she's still a pretty new rider. OMFG!!! What a smooth and demon ride she is. She is going to be so happy with her. She is a bit of a fat lady but boy can she dance. Like Ginger and Fred, all in one. They got her figured out pretty well. Hot d@mn!!

Congrats Kit, that is one smooth, hawt ride!!! 

(I want one, I want one. Anyone out there need a Suzuki Savage? lol.)

[martino1972]

that's so cool to hear,im happy for you girls....
i know kits has been working her ass off to get that bike going,and with all the disapointments  and frustrastions,she well deserves a kick ass running bike....

[Frankenkit]

I'm gonna stick on a voltimeter, though, I think. Gotta go out with our voltimeter and test how much it's sending to the battery @ what rpms... she runs like a champ, but still, a little iffy sometimes on turning the starter, even after cleaning the brushes and contacts on the rotor, so we'll see.  I'm sure it'll be fine.

[martino1972]

mine does the same thing,almost act's like a bad ground or something....it's not always,but mostly after riding for 30 minutes more,she's very slow to start......i doubt its the battery though...

[Frankenkit]

I'll check it when I can... it gets slooow to crank the starter, then it just doesn't crank it at all.  gonna pick through the electrics again, I suppose...

[Hush]

Ladies I salute you, sheer bloody mindedness has won out over frustration.
I'd swap my 650 Custom for your Savage Mickey if you were just a tad closer....
I still have a soft spot for Suzukis after riding them for so many years and owning quite a few, that's why Jaffa is getting a "spook".