Author Topic: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer" (Read 130570 times)

MosquitoJones · « **Reply #475 on:** April 28, 2009, 02:16:15 PM »

What's the rest of your kit look like? I can tolerate the black pants in the summer when it tops 100 degrees, even sitting in traffic because I have a mesh jacket that gives great airflow. I ride from down into the 20's through the hottest parts of summer and I have:

Power Trip San Jose mesh jacket
Scorpion Deuce pants
Old Wilson's leather jacket
SetUp boots
HJC helmet

I wear the leather over the mesh for wind blockage when it's cold. All told that full kit cost less than $300 and it's all decent gear (thank you newenough.com). The mesh came with a removable liner as well, though I never bother to use it. Either it's warm enough for no liner or it's not and then I'm wearing the leather. If it's really freaking cold I'll put my snowboarding pants on over the Deuces.

'Course, your weather is a lot different than mine. You probably have to worry about waterproofing a whole lot more than I do (we're lucky to get 60 days of rain a year). I'm betting it gets much hotter here in the summer, but heat doesn't bother me all that much.

Frankenkit · « **Reply #476 on:** April 28, 2009, 02:27:33 PM »

When it's cold, I have an insulated leather jacket with vents (comparable to the firstgear scout iv, but a knockoff) and insulated chaps, milwaukee bots.

Warm weather is a new HJC 3/4 helmet with a face shield, and Joe Rocket alter-ego jacket. The jacket and helmet are both black.

Hush · « **Reply #477 on:** April 28, 2009, 02:39:36 PM »

Most of the new stuff has removable inners so you can just hang those up for the summer.

MosquitoJones · « **Reply #478 on:** April 28, 2009, 02:41:51 PM »

JR makes the Alter Ego convertible mesh/textiles that have removable portions for cooling. Link here:
http://www.newenough.com/protective_apparel/convertible_textile_mesh_jackets_and_pants/joe_rocket/alter_ego_textile_mesh_motorcycle_overpants.html

That might cut it for you. Still in black, but should provide coverage for a wide variety of temp conditions. They're not on closeout, but look to be less than $200.

martino1972 · « **Reply #479 on:** April 28, 2009, 10:16:03 PM »

Quote from: MosquitoJones on April 28, 2009, 02:16:15 PM

What's the rest of your kit look like?

are you asking this to mickeyx..

?

Frankenkit · « **Reply #480 on:** April 29, 2009, 06:39:11 AM »

*squirts Martino with the spray bottle* Down! Bad Martino!

Frankenkit · « **Reply #481 on:** April 29, 2009, 07:14:03 AM »

ok. Good news and bad news.
Good news: TT, you wanna hear this too, I think I might've figured out my hot starting issue. I took Samson (poor Samson) apart down to his starter and just gave his starter motor a look-over alongside mine to see what was different about the two. His was new to that bike, with the salvage yard's sticker still on it, so I was assuming it was relatively properly functional. Side by side, I noticed one big difference. Mine had a slight vibration/ticking to it when I rotated the armature. Huh.

I disassembled mine. Took out the brushes first, in case that was what was doing it. It wasn't.

The cliff's notes version is that this contact was the field coil's plates, two in particular, rubbing lightly against the commutator when it was cold, and since they were worn shiny, I'm wondering if they were binding as everything expanded with heat.

Samson's has no such sound at all and turns quite smoothly and quietly. Testing resistance between both armatures to field coils does reveal continuity, which is normal, but the ohms of resistance are much higher in Samson's than mine, probably due to contact. I guess we'll see.

The Bad News:
I was trying to get everything buttoned up, with the carb in, to test this theory, when I forgot about how I generally attach the choke cable first and engage the choke to hold the flimsy little plastic piece up and out of the way. In it goes, sideways, until I hear a *snap*. .... I knew what that snap was, instantly. I didn't even have to look.

One unobtanium choke lever arm, down.

Well, it was bound to happen. If it can happen to Master Soos, and other people who are much more MC savvy than I am, then I don't feel too bad. I have another waiting in the wings, here, I just need to figure out how to put it on. I'm going to take the broken one and really look at it, because I can't imagine it'd be impossible to make something JUST like it out of heavy aluminum or something.

...so there's my day in a nutshell.

MosquitoJones · « **Reply #482 on:** April 29, 2009, 08:17:02 AM »

Quote from: martino1972 on April 28, 2009, 10:16:03 PM

are you asking this to mickeyx..?

:giggity: Guess I just spend too much time with funny-talkers. I call my gym bag a kit bag because of rugby and get weird looks all the time.

Frankenkit · « **Reply #483 on:** April 29, 2009, 08:56:51 AM »

yay! choke lever is replaced. If they weren't impossible to buy, the replacement would be a really easy procedure for everyone.

manjisann · « **Reply #484 on:** April 29, 2009, 09:41:13 AM »

Kit by the time you are done, you will be a 650 master!!

Hey Mystic, who is the manufacturer of your metric oring set, I was toying with the idea of getting one with a ton of different sizes to try and not pay the rediculous prices for the oe or even Keyster rebuilds.

Brandon

Frankenkit · « **Reply #485 on:** April 29, 2009, 11:23:37 AM »

Thanks, TT. As soon as I can find my **** keys, I'll be able to try it.

Manjisann, I like your idea, just make sure the quality of your o-rings meet or exceed OE standards, especially in respect to petrochemical resistance. Rebuilds suck.

Frankenkit · « **Reply #486 on:** April 29, 2009, 12:19:15 PM »

I have a dumb question.
I know. I hear you saying "What's new?"
...my left turn signal bulb went *Flash!* and is now dead. Well, it died a while ago, and I was too stubborn to admit to being out witted by a light bulb, but...
The **** thing is STUCK in there. I figure by the notches in the rubber that it's press/turn fit like the idiot lights, but I can NOT get it out! I haven't broken it yet because I didn't know if that would be a good idea, but I'm pretty stuck and really don't want to have to take one off of Samson because he's missing enough parts as it is.

I sprayed some WD-40 in it but it hasn't loosened anything. I'm guessing they're all like this.

They're all rusted to hell inside; at least one of the tiny screws is rusted in solid, too.

Halp!

oh, and will I short my light/blow a fuse if I try to start my bike with the WD-40 around the bulb like that?

Guess that might've been a bad idea, too.

MikeB · « **Reply #487 on:** April 29, 2009, 03:16:56 PM »

thats great news on the starter kit

(fingers crossed )
I don't think wd 40 is conductive have sprayed it in distributer caps to drive out water seemed to work
but it is flamable at least in the aresol cans, don't know if its the WD or something in the propellent

made a great blow torch to get rid of a wasps nest on a job site

Frankenkit · « **Reply #488 on:** April 29, 2009, 03:29:08 PM »

it's ok, I got it. Thankfully it was the only socket that looked like that, but I went around to all of them, brake light included, and liberally smeared them with dielectric grease. The one crappy socket, I ended up breaking the bulb, then using a needle nose pliers to fold in all the sides of the brass base until it popped free in pieces. Lots of sand paper and Deoxit later, I protected the bugger with lots of dielectric grease.

Bike started up ok... seems awful cold blooded or something. dies when I put the choke all the way in, and the rpms wander up and down around 500. Really ratty idling around 1500. I hit the throttle, just a little 'bip' to keep it going and it shot up to 4k. Weird. Guess I need to make sure my carb boots are on alright. The middle ones from the airbox suck. it just sorta sounds like an air leak to me. Hope that's what it is. Probably out of synch again, too, since I took them off etc. Ugh.

No fluid leaks, anyway, anywhere. The creepy weepy is gone from that valve cover bolt on the left, and the adjustment covers aren't leaking either. Yay!

Gotta let the biotch cool down a little before I start messing with those carb boots, etc. I've already punctured/burned/cut/scraped myself enough today. Either exhaustion or lack of blood is getting to me so I think I'm going to take a nap until one of the cats lays across my face in a mercy killing.

...is that dramatic enough for you? I can do better...

I'm ready for a nap. It's been a long day.

Hush · « **Reply #489 on:** April 29, 2009, 04:02:56 PM »

Didn't some guy whose name begins with H and ends in SH ask you if you got that starter motor back together correctly weeks ago???

Hope that is the "final solution" to your problems Kit, good weathers a cummin girl.

Frankenkit · « **Reply #490 on:** April 30, 2009, 02:01:40 PM »

...no guarantee the new starter has really changed anything. It still wouldn't start when hot this time, but I didn't get to ride it enough to charge it very well, so maybe that's why I'm not seeing an improvement. It didn't want to start very well when cold, either, so who knows? At least when cold it'd crank nice and fast, just... didn't want to start.

I'm sort of thinking aloud here, but...
The bike, it's not running without choke. When I CAN get it to run without choke (and it has to be really good and hot) it won't take throttle without dying. That says it's lean. Outrageous lean. But... I just took the carbs off to fix leaks. Nothing could have possibly gotten gummed up in that time! The gas is clean, I didn't change any settings on air screws, etc, but the damn thing won't idle without 1/4 choke. If I even try to put the choke all the way in, idle drops to 1,000 and then dies. WTF?
Oh, and 4 has decided it's not going to fire with the others initially... it's just going to wait until everyone else is warm, thanks. I didn't even touch four!

...so this last round of 'repairs' has been really disappointing. The only good things that have come of it are that I'm not leaking gas or oil anymore...
but considering what went into the (in retrospect) stupid easy fixes (tighten the clamp on the fuel hose, without taking the carbs OUT, and without unracking #1, then just NOT busting off the choke lever so I could unrack 2 and 3 and mess them up, too?)

While I'm typing this and thinking aloud in my head, Mlinder calibrated the carbs while I was running D7EAs, which are recommended on this bike for "temps below 50*" I don't *think* this should make that much of a difference, but *could* it? I replaced the D7s with D8s while I was going through the oil filter nightmare, and have run the D8s once without problems like this... so it's probably just the carbs being f*cked up again. I hate carbs.

I hate being stuck inside on a nice warm day because I'm clueless when it comes to calibrating these things and afraid to make it worse.

Gruh.

Frankenkit · « **Reply #491 on:** April 30, 2009, 02:52:40 PM »

yes.

As far as I know, it *should* still be functional, too. I just haven't seen much result from the tickler squirts I usually give it. (I give 4 or 5, and usually it fires right up... $:-\$ ) Starting has gotten harder and harder since putting in the D8s insttead of the D7s. that was kind of an unexpected change.

Hush · « **Reply #492 on:** April 30, 2009, 03:51:57 PM »

But Delihla looks really pretty Kit.

Why not just for fun swap those pulse coils over from Samson, can't hurt.
I've found that my 650 likes full choke and a single twist of the throttle to start first time, then I adjust the idle speed with the wee wheel above carb #4 until she sits at around 1500rpm.
I wiggle into my armour and helmet while she warms up then I push the choke in (off) and reset the idles to about 11-1200.
This works for my old 79, I'm running D8EA's as well and when she's running well they are the perfect colour.
I experimented last week with a tankfull of 91 but I'm not too impressed with the performance since doing that so think I'll return to 95 V power from Shell, I was guessing that the compression on a 30 year old bike would be way down so 91 would be best, maybe the PO redid the motor and the 95 makes such a difference............go fix your bike girl.

Soos · « **Reply #493 on:** April 30, 2009, 04:09:55 PM »

Kit, it's things like that that made me upgrade to cb750 carbs(and eventually to the CV's I am running now).
Not to mention both sets of carbs I have ran since shelving the 650 carbs are not only cheaper to rebuild, but way easier to adjust.

No way I would go back to the stockers, even though I could get 10-15 more mpg.

Did you have to tear the rack of carbs apart to get the choke widget on there?
If so a synch is due.

What is the gap on your spark plugs?

Have you gone through your ignition system and tried pulling the connectors apart, and putting them together a few times each to ensure you got good connections?

l8r

hey hush, mabey the 95 octane works better due to HIGHER compression from buildup on the head and top of the pistons?
dunno...
I personally do notice a slight difference in how my bike runs when I run 89 octane gas VS 97 octane.
Mainly in pinging(fixable by adjust timing curve to the timid one) and high RPM running.

Frankenkit · « **Reply #494 on:** April 30, 2009, 04:28:55 PM »

I dunno that the pulsers would make that much difference. I was going to do the push start thing today, but realized that since our garage is on the top of a slope, I'd need help around to help me push the bugger back in if it wasn't starting... so I'm waiting until Saturday to do that with MickeyX.

The D7s were a really nice color when I pulled them. Kind of a light toasty brown, with a little bit of soot, just enough to barely see, on the edges. Since most of my riding seems to be around 5-6k, instead of really railing it (though I DO go up to 7k sometimes... just to hear her wail...) and for mostly 45 min stop-and-go 10 mile trips, should I go back to the D7s?

I still think the carbs are out of whack, but I'm not sure how to fix them. I don't have a carb synch here, anyway. I've been thinking on it and the other thing I did change was the vent hose between 1 and 2. Before, I don't think I had it on right. The plastic had gotten a little mushed, so I reopened either end of the T and inserted them into the little aluminum holes they go into on the carbs, then pulled the rubber seals over them, same with the tube between 3 and 4. I know they're just breathers but, could that cause a major change in the balance, too?

Hush, I don't want to start a gas octane argument, (just search them, they're there...) but is there really that much improvement on the 95 as opposed to the 91? I've been using 91 with just a bit of Seafoam in it to make sure my carbs stay clean (HA!) and (until now) it was working great.

The reason I ask is that before my carb synch, I was suffering from some pre-ignition happening (somewhere). With the synch, it was reduced pretty significantly. Now, it's back with a vengeance. As I understand it, the higher the octane, the more resistant it is to spark knock (if that is what's going on), in addition to everything else...

Soos, if I didn't already have close to $200 in rubber parts already sunk into this stupid rack of crabs I'd jump on the next set of 750s that came my way.

Frankenkit · « **Reply #495 on:** April 30, 2009, 04:38:53 PM »

Yeah, Hush, my starting procedure used to be:
Turn gas on,
wait a while while the bowls fill.
...wait...
sit the bike up. Neutral.
Five good wrings on the throttle.
Put twitch to Run.
Choke.
hit start button.
(this is where the bike would fire right up like she'd been waiting all day)
OR
It'd fire up, but a little weak, so I'd give her a couple nudges with the throttle and it wakes up. This is usually in the morning when it's cold.

Let it idle, nudging choke down a half cm at a time, as rpms rise. Get riding clothes on.
By the time I'm done, bike idles nice w/o choke, but needs 1cm of the choke pull out to take gas well. That's ok.

Ride through parking lot at 4-5k until I hear a soft *puh, puh* on accelleration. Tells me it's rich, ergo it's ready to not need choke anymore. Push choke in. Done.

Now:
(ff to 5 wrings)
hit starter button.
...
sit on starter button for 3 seconds.
If it doesn't fire up right away, it's not going to.
Wring again.
(repeat, but stop wringing when I figure I'm going to flood it if I continue)
It starts to grumble.
Give a little twist of throttle as it grumbles, until I'm at 1500.
Idle, idle, stumble, cough. Idle cough.
Needs 3cm of choke pull out to take gas well. Any further in and it stumbles badly when given gas.
I rode it around the parking lot (not as far to push it if things went wrong) for a few laps (ok, a couple miles, it's a very large parking area) around 4-5k. It pulled ok, it sounded ok, but only if I left a good amount of the choke out. When it was really warm, it really still needed all that choke or it wanted to die. (and it tried, believe me.)

so... yeah.

Maybe a synch would fix this.

Soos · « **Reply #496 on:** April 30, 2009, 05:08:44 PM »

Quote

Soos, if I didn't already have close to $200 in rubber parts already sunk into this stupid rack of crabs I'd jump on the next set of 750s that came my way.

I know the feeling there as well.... I wince every time I look at those 650 carbs sitting in a box on the shelf in my parts room. I did the same, all new diaphragms, kits...
the rebuilds, the fiddling.....

... thats sad. I just realized I have a entire ROOM dedicated just for spare parts.

Anywhoo....
You guys have it hard.
Since it's stayed above 40 the past bit, my startup consists of:
Sit on bike
Put key in ignition.
Kick up the kick stand, and put it in neutral.
switch off the kill switch
turn bike to run
push choke
hit starter.
I hold the choke(ok, mine is a starter circuit technically) and adjust the idle screw until it hovers at about 2700rpm with the choke on.
release the choke, and ride.

About 2-3 miles down the road I back the idle screw out to get 1500-1800 rpm at idle.

l8r

And if you are doing short hopw, from what I have read, the d7's might be a better choice for you kit.

l8r

Frankenkit · « **Reply #497 on:** April 30, 2009, 05:11:12 PM »

now, in doing that, would I unnecessarily stress my engine on a longer (2-3 hr) trip?

Soos · « **Reply #498 on:** April 30, 2009, 05:13:31 PM »

Dunno.

But at the RPM's you run at I don't think it would be much of an issue.
Staying under 7k and all.

Now with me, riding 'till 10k quite often(did you know 2nd will do 60-65?) I might have a problem there.

l8r

Frankenkit · « **Reply #499 on:** April 30, 2009, 05:18:40 PM »

...
See, When I get up around 7.5k, everything in me that's been trained by listening to my car to shift, and not explode hears the bite and the roar and the scream and then annoyingly also expects a "BOOM!" somewhere in there.

I'm just happy I can run it without it dribbling gas or oil, but the whole 'running right' thing ranks pretty high, too.

I forgot at the time, but the batt. was at 12.2 when it decided it finally didn't want to start this last time, so a good amt of it might be the low battery this time. It's on a trickle charger right now.