Author Topic: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"  (Read 129345 times)

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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 5% more drama!)
« Reply #800 on: August 04, 2009, 09:26:06 PM »
ok. I have a snag.
I'd 'fixed' the weepy leak I had at the furthest left bolt on the left side of the cylinder head cover... #25 in that diagram...

I fixed it with some gasket goo sealant over and under the copper crush washer that wasn't doing its job.  Then I tightened it down until snug (I had a feeling the threads were going) and called it a day.

Riding to work today, I realized it wasn't working.

I had a steady run down the side of the engine from that one stupid bolt.  By the time I got to work, the whole head on the left side was covered in oil.  By the time I got home, I had spatters and drips all over my boot, my pants, and dripping off the alternator cover.  :o

I went to retorque that bolt to see if I couldn't snug it up some, and I def. could, but after it got 'snug' it started getting looser.  I quit while it still gave some resistance anyway, but let's face it. Those threads are shot.

I know the only proper fix is going to probably be a helicoil, but if I take all that apart, I'm going to have to do the valves etc, and this is my daily rider.  Are there any bandaid fixes I can do in the mean time just to keep oil in?
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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Offline scunny

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 5% more drama!)
« Reply #801 on: August 04, 2009, 09:43:04 PM »
use a piece of wire or some such and see how deep that hole is. you might get lucky and be able to use a slightly longer bolt to reach "virgin threads"
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Offline Hush

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 5% more drama!)
« Reply #802 on: August 05, 2009, 12:15:25 AM »
Good point Scunny, I was going to suggest cleaning the bolt up as good as possible then adding a #$%* load of loctite to the threads. ;D
I like the longer bolt idea Kit, I've used that on one of my valve cover bolts.
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Offline Frankenkit

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Shop Day
« Reply #803 on: August 29, 2009, 09:51:39 PM »
MickeyX rode Delilah to "The Shop" today while I followed in the car.

On the docket was a repair for a stripped bolt in the head (right next to the end of the cam and very close to the oil feed there) and the subsequent valve adjustment, as the head cover needed to be removed for the aforementioned helicoiling.
Paulages rolled Delilah up on the lift and we got her prepped.  Valve adjustment covers off, head cover off, cam out, we set up the sterile field:

That went off without a hitch.  Cleaned up the inevitable metal shavings, and put the cam back in.


(after this, sh*t started breaking, so we eschewed picture taking)

Somewhere while we were finishing the first helicoil, Moto-Bunny came by and we all stood around chatting and I showed off my 'baby' while Paul most expertly arranged the cam. The second (and first unexpected) helicoil- near the tach mechanism plugin- was kind of a PITA.  It required quite a bit of cleaning up-after.  The third helicoil was for the valve adj. cover on the far right side, more grease, more cleaning, and it came out well, too.  

The rubber gasketry under the covers was of poor quality and had started to split and fray on me.  That would come back to bite me.
It was kind of a bummer that things started running so late, because first Coldright and Mlinder had to leave, then Bunny, but I think given the option, we would've bailed, too.  :D ::)

By about 8 (we started at 4ish?) we got done.  Closing up, Paul and I decided to trade valve covers, as his were finned and said "OHC 650", while mine were smooth.  I still think I got the better end of the deal, because I can say with pride that he used parts off my bike to make the 550-650 Honducati monster. :D 
I asked Paul to take 'er around the block a couple of times to help me figure out what was causing the terrific front end dive on braking and weird, squirrelly handling in sweepy corners.  

After this test ride we concluded two things:
1. I need new fork springs, because hitting the brakes hard in the parking lot he all but bottomed the forks
2. The left shredding valve cover gasket hadn't sealed hardly at all, and oil had been spewed all down the side of the motor and all over Paul's boot.  Luckily, he had a spare to loan me so the bike could make the trip home.

MX in turn rode my bike home and aside from some cleaning on the left side, we realized the right cover hadn't sealed so hot either. :P   New right gasket, too.


So... ordering some parts tonight.  I can't wait to do Skyline on a bike with decent fork springs; it'll probably feel a lot more stable. ;D
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 09:55:15 PM by Kit »
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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1973 CL350- Lola?
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Offline coldright

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 5% more drama!)
« Reply #804 on: August 29, 2009, 10:33:43 PM »
Sorry to hear about the can of worms.  I'm glad you guys got her back together and home safely though...  It certainly wouldn't be nearly as much fun if everything went smoothly, right?

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 5% more drama!)
« Reply #805 on: August 29, 2009, 10:41:21 PM »
Ehh, not as much of a story to tell, anyway. ::) Just ordered my springs, $65 and free shipping, so hopefully that'll help a lot.  :D
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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Offline razor02097

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #806 on: August 29, 2009, 10:57:48 PM »
Sounded like the ass rape fairy came for a visit... I really hate when s#!% snaps, strips, and otherwise breaks. It gets expensive.

Sounds like you had a handle on it though.

What WT fork oil you planning on using?  Might help dampen the emergency stops if you go with a higher weight.
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Offline paulages

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #807 on: August 29, 2009, 11:09:20 PM »
Sounded like the ass rape fairy came for a visit... I really hate when s#!% snaps, strips, and otherwise breaks. It gets expensive.

Sounds like you had a handle on it though.

What WT fork oil you planning on using?  Might help dampen the emergency stops if you go with a higher weight.

i agree that she should probably run heavier fork oil, but her springs are definitely saggy. very soft.

kit- where did you order your springs?
paul
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #808 on: August 29, 2009, 11:13:08 PM »
I'm running 10wt oil right now. I'm 115 on a good day, what wt. oil should I be using?

The springs came from Fastcycleparts.com.  $65.50ish and free shipping.  In theory they're in stock. We'll see.  Progressive Suspension 11-1108.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 11:26:57 PM by Kit »
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
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Offline razor02097

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #809 on: August 29, 2009, 11:44:56 PM »
I run 10 wt also but I have heavier fork springs.  It won't nessesarily depend on just your weight but the weight of all the cargo.  Especially if you ever ride 2 up.  The new springs would definitly help so I would try that first.  You want to see what your static sag is when you mount the bike.  It shouldn't be more then about 30mm acording to http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_geek/index.html
Since we have older bikes and the sag is too much then you could try increasing the preload on the springs by using shims.  Use a zip tie around the fork just above the seal, sit on the bike then get off.  It moves the tie and you can get your measurment

Changing the weight of the oil won't help the sag problem but it would help dampen when you hit bumps or grab a handful of front brake.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 11:47:31 PM by razor02097 »
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Offline MickeyX

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #810 on: August 29, 2009, 11:52:52 PM »
I just ordered the OEM gaskets. Should be here in a week. My right boot and chap were covered in oil by the time I got home. This bike never ceases to "get me".  :D
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Offline paulages

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #811 on: August 30, 2009, 12:58:00 AM »
I'm running 10wt oil right now. I'm 115 on a good day, what wt. oil should I be using?

The springs came from Fastcycleparts.com.  $65.50ish and free shipping.  In theory they're in stock. We'll see.  Progressive Suspension 11-1108.

how'd you get free shipping? over a certain amount?
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Offline manjisann

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #812 on: August 30, 2009, 04:20:24 AM »
Quote
My right boot and chap were covered in oil by the time I got home. This bike never ceases to "get me".

It's like that dog that is so happy to see you it piddles on your boot ;)

Quote
I run 10 wt also but I have heavier fork springs.  It won't nessesarily depend on just your weight but the weight of all the cargo.  Especially if you ever ride 2 up.  The new springs would definitly help so I would try that first.  You want to see what your static sag is when you mount the bike.  It shouldn't be more then about 30mm acording to http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_geek/index.html
Since we have older bikes and the sag is too much then you could try increasing the preload on the springs by using shims.  Use a zip tie around the fork just above the seal, sit on the bike then get off.  It moves the tie and you can get your measurment

Good info, I'll have to try this when I get my bike assembled.

Brandon
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #813 on: August 30, 2009, 06:10:19 AM »
I'm running 10wt oil right now. I'm 115 on a good day, what wt. oil should I be using?

The springs came from Fastcycleparts.com.  $65.50ish and free shipping.  In theory they're in stock. We'll see.  Progressive Suspension 11-1108.

how'd you get free shipping? over a certain amount?
That's my guess.
Thanks for the info on sag etc.  I'll start doing all that once I get these new springs in.  Could be a very different animal once those are in, too.
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #814 on: September 02, 2009, 10:35:48 AM »
Couple new questions, then
oh and Paul, I paid about $9 in shipping and handling. 
What should I be using to get those fork caps off?  My springs should be here Friday, so that's when I'll want to do this thang.  I figure I can use the bike lift we have to unweight the front wheel (maybe not completely off the ground, but def so it doesn't have any weight on it) and then...?  Maybe I'm over thinking this but where the heck do you get a 23mm allen type socket?
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
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Offline manjisann

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #815 on: September 02, 2009, 12:26:35 PM »
I think it's a 17mm allen socket. I bought mine at a local industrial tool supplier. I've also heard of people making their own by taken a 17mm allen wrench, cutting off the bent end and stuffing it into a socket. Or you can find a bolt head that is that size, stuff it in some vise grips and try that (I did this and it didn't work too well).

HTH,

Brandon
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #816 on: September 02, 2009, 12:34:15 PM »
Sounds like I'll be visiting Harbor Freight then. ;D Thanks!
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Offline Spikeybike

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #817 on: September 02, 2009, 01:04:41 PM »
wow ... how did i miss this thread?    :-[ :-[

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #818 on: September 02, 2009, 01:13:16 PM »
I dunno, Spike... it's been in my sig for at least year now... ;)  Have fun reading it... it'll make you laugh and cry, maybe at the same time, especially if you're drunk. :D
(incidentally, that's totally the best way to read this thread)
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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1973 CL350- Lola?
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Offline MickeyX

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #819 on: September 02, 2009, 01:24:14 PM »
This one starts when we moved the bike over to a mechanic/buddy's garage. It would have been nice to have the stuff before that point in this thread. Some interesting and scary moments there, indeed.  ;D

Just thinking now about clear coating the tank and resealing that original paint. Is this a viable possibility or what?
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #820 on: September 02, 2009, 09:25:43 PM »
Just got home from work and installed the LED tail lights.  They seem a bit brighter than the incandescents, and the 'blink' was faster, too, which is what I was going for.  It was a little puzzling, the blink was sorta slow (not 'something is broken' slow, but 'blinking yellow turn arrow at an intersection' slow) even after replacing the flasher unit (which sped things up a hair) and cleaning the connections (which didn't)

Tomorrow I'm going to go out and play with some new toys from Harbor Freight, and try not to hurt myself in the process. :D
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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1973 CL350- Lola?
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #821 on: September 04, 2009, 12:48:52 PM »
YAY! My fork springs are here!!! Time to get Dirty!
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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1973 CL350- Lola?
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 2% more bling!)
« Reply #822 on: September 04, 2009, 03:34:19 PM »
Ok.  I got sick of other people taking pics of me doing stuff, so I decided to take pics of me doing stuff. :D  MX is at work today, like most people who work, so I got to pursue this little endeavor myself, after she helped me put the bike up on the center stand.  (it's a bear since it's 2" lower than stock... :P)  The garage is a mess but I wasn't about to clean it up just to take pictures.

So.
Here's the Kit:

The bike, with my car's jack placed just behind the filter housing, with a chunk of wood between it and the aluminum engine, to prevent metal-on-metal hating.  I just lifted it high enough to where I could easily spin the front wheel with my hand, but not real far off the ground in case '#$%* happens' as it is wont to do.:

The Other Kit:
The new springs (oooh shiny) + go juice

What MoTo-Bunny would call a "jenky-ass" bastard tool #1- for the fork caps,
turned out to be a 10mm bolt, with a couple nuts on.  The top holds the bottom one in place for the unscrewing motions, the bottom one holds the top one in place for the in-screwing motions.:

This is my lovely cockpit. I wish I still had the white lettering, but ya can't have it all.  I took the windshield off.  It looks sorta nice that way, but I realy dig my windshield.
Dash got dismantled so I could pull the handlebars out of the way.  The 650 is set up so if you drop the forks thru the triple trees, the caps come to rest on the bottom of the handlebars.

The nuts 'n bolts tool worked really really well for getting the fork caps off.  I was a little surprised at what I found. I expected the cap to be under some spring pressure, but there was either none or very, very little.  Here are a couple of pics of the spring sitting in the tube as it was:
This is supposed to be to scale but it just makes my finger look bigger than it really is.  The springs were a good 3/4" below the tops of the forks.

I thought that was really weird, so I pulled out the spring and laid it next to the new one:

Weird.
I re-read the directions and looked at the parts fiche to make sure there wasn't another spring under that one that I needed to remove.  Progressive's directions said not to remove the spring under the damper unit, so... nope, that was that.
Huh.
Shrugged and put the new spring in, then pulled it out to make sure there was 5.5" of fork fluid in, and there was.  Fork fluid was still a nice clear bluish from when I rebuilt the forks last year.
I don't have a pic of how the new springs sat in the forks, but a good 3/4" in of spring was exposed out the top of the fork tube after I dropped it down inside.  That was... odd... as well, and nothing to that effect was mentioned in my instructions.  I wasn't sure if that was supposed to add to the preload, or what.
Whatever the case, though it didn't take a LOT to push the cap down, it was still kind of a lot of effort, combined with trying to screw the damn thing on.  I'm not sure how other people do it, but I was at kind of a loss for a little bit.  Then I came up with:
Bastard Tool #2

We just bought a breaker bar, which was just right for getting necessary leverage to put some weight into it, but the adjustable angle of the thing made it about impossible to really put weight on it straight up-and-down, so I splinted it with some tape and a pair of bolts.  Kinda hairy, and next time I'd probably use duct tape, but it worked, so w/e.
One hand way up top pushing down, and one hand turning the whole unit to screw those damn caps in.  Went much easier than the other way.

Got everything reassembled, took the jack out from under the bike, walked the bike off its center stand and got situated again on the side stand.  This is when I put zip ties on each of the fork legs and got on the bike.  No change.  I couldn't make the forks compress getting on/getting off before, with the spongy springs, either, though.  I'm just that freakin' light.  Backed up a little bit, then scooted forward and hit the brakes hard.  Doing that I got 30mm of travel.  Much firmer feel than before, and I notice it even just straightening the front end from being in the 'lock' position.  Before the fork would squish around a little bit with just that maneuvering.  Now things feel tight and stiff.  Unfortunately, I have to wait until Honda gets my valve adjustment cover gaskets in before I can take 'er for a test ride, unless I want to be covered in oil again. :(  

What's the viscosity difference between ATF and 10w? Ive read that ATF is what's recommended for this bike, but 10w is what's in there right now because the mechanic I was working with at that point said 10w would do the job.

Any input is more than welcome!




« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 09:19:29 AM by Kit »
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Pinhead

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 120% more spring!)
« Reply #823 on: September 04, 2009, 05:11:04 PM »
ATF is thinner than 10w. :)
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Offline manjisann

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie (Now 120% more spring!)
« Reply #824 on: September 04, 2009, 05:30:51 PM »
I just rebuilt mine with 10w fork oil, and even considered going up to 15w, but then again, I'm a big fat guy so I compress it more  ;) For kicks and giggles, if you still have it, measure your old spring, I'm curious how it measures against the min that the book recommends. Mine measured at 21" give or take a hair. When I put mine back together, it seems to me it was pretty close to the top and that was with it in a vise and the tube fully extended. I use that big a$$ allen socket on a ratchet and it goes down pretty easy, but then again, I do weigh more than it so that might help  :P

Nice job though, let us know how they ride. I'm tapped this year, but next years plans are to get new rear shocks and depending on how they feel, new progressive springs for the front.

LONG LIVE 650'S!!

Brandon
Sure it's for sale! How much you ask?? Well, how much are you willing to pay??? Now triple it, that's the price!

1973 CB500 K2 - Sold the bike and bought a Mig, Miss the bike, Love the Mig :D
1980 CB650 Custom
1971 CB500 Frame 650 engine: Project

Trip and General Ramblings blog: manjisann.blogspot.com