Topic: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"

[750goes]

I would definitely try some heavier weight oil up to 20w, if that does not solve the problem, then go for progressive springs.....go get them squids....lol

[manjisann]

Kit when you are pulling the springs do you have the forks fully extended? I know most people think it's a huge pain but I pull the forks out and stick them in a vise so they are completely extended and unloaded. If you do this, be sure to start the top nut or else it's a huge pain.

HTH

Brandon

[Frankenkit]

I jack up the front of the bike so they have the weight of the wheel pulling them down (extended) and the front wheel's also off the ground (unloaded)

750goes- I already moved to progressive springs... now I just need heavier oil to knock out the pogoey springy effect.

[Hush]

That's how I'd do it Kit, put a jack under the front of frame, let the forks extend out to full travel and you should have no problem getting your tops back on.
By the way maybe you should hide the keys from Mickyx, Honda envy has long been a problem with Harley owners.

[Frankenkit]

Rode D to work and back, gassed 'er up (regular as opposed to 89, we'll see how she likes it...) she started up great every time and the battery was at 12.49 after starting 'er up , parking, and shutting down.

[paulages]

kit- just don't put your chin above the forks when you remove the cap.  you're doing the right thing by unloading it, and with the progressive springs the cap will likely pop off no matter how careful you are. it goes a lot smoother with a socket than with a wrench though.

[Buber]

it goes a lot smoother with a socket than with a wrench though.

+1

It is MUCH easier, because you can lean on the socket. And cheapo solution when you don't have such big hex - use a screw M10 with 13 head - fit's right in! (with double nut on the other side, and simple 13 socket)

but ultimately - this bike has suspension for it's age. Don't expect too much... Shame to say, but when I REALLY want to go for the curves I usually borrow newer bike..  (CB1300 of my friend - this baby goes  )

[Frankenkit]

EFF!
So I got home today from school and start playing with my clutch, because the adjustment was a little weird.  Not long after this, I step off the bike to grab my stuff and get into the house, and I see a puddle forming under the bike.  "That's oil!" I think to myself.  "...a LOT of oil..."

so I grab a pan and start cussing.


It slowed to a drip probably only because I started running out in that particular area of the bottom end.    Seems to be coming from under the left side cover somewhere near the chain, because the chain is totally wet with oil.  I had to pop into the apartment to change into garage clothes before tearing into things, so thought I'd post all this fun.  I'm kinda pissed.  I was really hoping to be able to have fun this weekend, and ride around enjoying my cold-weather gear, and ride to work, and all that other stuff, but depending on how involved this repair is, that might not be happening for awhile again.

[Hush]

Probably you have a seal gone, the gear change shaft ones are particulary suseptible to giving out on our 650's, the good news is you can replace them from the outside without splitting the cases as with some bikes I've worked on.
Hope it's something small like that for ya.......

On the clutch issue, I just redid my clutch adjustment too, was clanking through the gears like a combine harvester, I slackened the lower cable adjuster and wound the handlebar one right in then reset the screw thingy, you know, in till it touches then slightly out, then redid the cable adjustments, works good now with much less banging into gear.

[Frankenkit]

Hush, you were right on.  
It's the gear shift seal.  I took off the side cover but everything had stopped dripping (d'oh!) so I checked the dipstick and put almost half a quart in.  It started spewing out that gear shift seal.  I ran over to see what Samson's looked like.  Seems like Delilah turned an innie into an outie.  
So glad the phone has a camera.  It's not great, but easier to carry around than the actual $$ camera.
Here it is, with the oil added so it started leaking again..


so I cleaned stuff up with a brush and WD-40 to get a better look at it. Since the seal had already worked its way out of its seat, I was able to move it up the shifter shaft with just a finger tip...


So... what exactly is involved in replacing that thing?  It seemed to be intact, just kinda hard, and obviously didn't fit tightly in its seat anymore.


Oh and about the clutch- it shifts gears with barely a click. Very smooth and soft... I just fidget too much with where the clutch lever should engage/disengage.  Too far out and I have a hard time with it with my little hands, and too far in and it seems like the clutch slips a little. No slips into real high revs, but odd little pulses of power.  Nothing violent, though.  Almost like running out of gas. ...but that's neither here nor there.  Much more concerned about the seal.

[mystic_1]

The new seal should just push right in from what I'm seeing.  Aged rubber not only gets hard, it shrinks.  Also the seal may have a metal core encased inside the rubber, this can get deformed.

So the new seal should go in nice and tight.  Lube it up with oil before installation and be careful when sliding it over the splines on the shaft.

mystic_1

[manjisann]

+ 1 mystic.

Take some clear packing tape and put it over the splines, you don't want to mess it up because of that. Make sure there aren't any gouges that stick out and could mess it up. To get it to seat evenly and to ensure I didn't mess it up, I used a washer that had an outside circumference the same as the seal, and then dremeled out the middle hole to just slip over the shaft. I then used a piece of 1/2 copper pipe I had laying around and put the seal on, then the washer then the pipe and gently tapped it into place. I think I used a wee bit of grease, but oil will do the job.

Brandon

[Frankenkit]

thanks it's on its way.  Just have to wait a week to ride, then.   I suppose that'll let me really focus on studying, though, right?

[leekellerking]

Hmmmm.  I wonder if this is where Bikey is losing oil?  I had oil on my bottom case too.  I powerwashed it off and was going to try and keep track of it, but then I got caught up in the stupid electrical thing.

Good news is Bikey is running fine.  Just leaking oil on occasion.

You know, I always wanted a Brit bike!   

Lee

Hush, you were right on.  
It's the gear shift seal.  I took off the side cover but everything had stopped dripping (d'oh!) so I checked the dipstick and put almost half a quart in.  It started spewing out that gear shift seal.  I ran over to see what Samson's looked like.  Seems like Delilah turned an innie into an outie.  
So glad the phone has a camera.  It's not great, but easier to carry around than the actual $$ camera.
Here it is, with the oil added so it started leaking again..


so I cleaned stuff up with a brush and WD-40 to get a better look at it. Since the seal had already worked its way out of its seat, I was able to move it up the shifter shaft with just a finger tip...


So... what exactly is involved in replacing that thing?  It seemed to be intact, just kinda hard, and obviously didn't fit tightly in its seat anymore.


Oh and about the clutch- it shifts gears with barely a click. Very smooth and soft... I just fidget too much with where the clutch lever should engage/disengage.  Too far out and I have a hard time with it with my little hands, and too far in and it seems like the clutch slips a little. No slips into real high revs, but odd little pulses of power.  Nothing violent, though.  Almost like running out of gas. ...but that's neither here nor there.  Much more concerned about the seal.

[Ogri]

You don't necessarily need the Honda part; oil seals are oil seals. So long as you know the inside diameter (the diameter of the gearchange shaft,) the outside diameter (measured from the original oil seal) and the depth (ditto) you can buy one from any good parts supplier. Most oil seals, like bearings, are stock sizes.

EDIT:   It's 12.5mm X 25mm X 8mm according to the 1980 CB650 microfiche at CMSNL (Honda part # 91204425003)

[mystic_1]

Yup, and a lot of seals have the dimensions printed right on them.

There is a fair variety in oil seals as each manufacturer has their own ideas on how to design the sealing lips.  Some are rather more advanced than the stock ones.  YMMV.

mystic_1

[Hush]

Yeah I was gonna say, unless you want the original Honda seal there are plenty that will do just as well.

[MickeyX]

I kinda missed reading this thread so I just popped on. The last installment of the saga was Kit's oil seal blowout. Just to verify, yes it was just the seal, it cost about $4.  It went right in (she put the tape over the splines like manjisann suggested) and she was back up riding in just under 2 weeks.

Since then, the bike has done exceptionally well. Really a joy to ride. Unfortunately, it sat in the garage for about a month and a half with nasty rainy weather and lots of leaves on the roads. I finally popped the trickle charger on it Tues. We went out the next day, topped off the tank, put some seafoam in to winterize, cranked her over to run it through the carbs before draining the bowls and...... purrrrrrrr.  She took about 3-4 minutes to settle down and she sounded beautiful. We expect a few nice days here and there so we are wondering if we should really put it up for the winter or not since we do have the cold/wet gear. The leaves are mostly down now too so that makes it a bit safer on the roads. The '69 Scrambler I bought is sitting behind it crosswise in the garage so I would have to pull it out to jockey some bikes around, put the scrambler in front so Kit could get at Delilah for a spin at a moments notice. I think I'll be doing that tomorrow. I miss riding and 40F isn't bad at all considering what we both grew up with for temps. I'd like to get her out and do a spit and polish on her too. She deserves it and has been neglected for the new "old" kid on the block. We wouldn't want her to think she wasn't appreciated or anything.

I really like what Kit did with this bike. I think she really put a personality into the bike it didn't have before and she pays such close attention to details and learned everything she could about it as she went, like a good bike scholar should. No, it wasn't taken down to the bare frame like many of the bikes on here, but you wouldn't know it, even up close. I'm still stunned every time I look at it, how everything was attended to with such precision and respect. And... it was done on a less than a shoestring budget. (hence the 3 years to complete  ) Some of the local guys sold or gave her some of their spare parts (thank you to paulages especially), much advice was imparted on this site and in person, the hands on help by paul in his shop and by mlinder was invaluable. There was far more learning than she even knew she would need, to do this right.

Thank you to all who have contributed knowledge, parts, 1 on 1 mentoring and especially all the encouragement. It was very frustrating and heartbreaking at times but well worth the journey. 

[MickeyX]

These were posted before but I just can't get enough of looking at what Kit has done for this barn find.

Delilah...

[manjisann]

I agree, this bike has some serious class to it now, Kit should take pride in her! 

My neighbor who also rides motorcycles pointed out that there are always at least 1 or 2 days every month during winter where riding would be safe. As long as these bikes are ridden a few times a month, I don't think there is much of a point in winterizing them. The only reason I winterized mine, was I finally decided I'd better stop throwing money at it this season and recover  Once my bike is up and runnning reliably, I won't be winterizing it more than just using some Seafoam in the fuel tank.

Brandon

[leekellerking]

That is su-weet!

BTW, it was not the shifter seal on my bike, but the oil-pressure switch on the top of the oil pump. I replaced that pretty easily with a part from Bike Bandit.

So now, Bike is not leaking oil that I can see.  Still using some oil on trips, but I guess that is to be expected.  I am trying to quantify the amount but I seem to be getting a lot of variance when I check the oil level. 

And the new stator fixed the charging problem.


Lee

These were posted before but I just can't get enough of looking at what Kit has done for this barn find.

Delilah...

[Hush]

Pleased to see Kit's bike finally became a reliable daily rider for her after all her effort, I kept telling her it would happen.
My old 650 is as reliable as, I kinda miss wrenching on it but Jaffa's 400 has enough problems to keep me busy, but it's getting sorted and we are enjoying our rides together.

[leekellerking]

Bite your tongue, Hush!   

What kind of windscreen is that, Kit?  Where'd you get it?  I need something on bikey now that my commute has extended.  It is starting to get a little chilly (49 degrees this morning).

Lee

My old 650 is as reliable as, I kinda miss wrenching on it...

[MickeyX]

National Cycle Street Shield EX. She really likes it. 

[Frankenkit]

I REALLY like it.