Topic: Fuel injection conversion (edit) fixed a few things

[J.Webster Designs]

sounds like the idle is pretty high in that video. Is there a reason for that? tune not finished?

[750essess]

can withstand the heat and absolutely no problems with any type of fuels. gas/alcohol, etc...  He can not tell me what his proprietary mixture is of course or he wouldnt have a job.

I am very curious about this. I called devcon and Dow and they both said there is no compound that is room temp vulcanizing the can withstand over 275. This guy better patent this stuff!

[fastbroshi]

I think I remember seeing that bike in mockup somewhere before you painted it.   Love the brown seat. 

[750essess]

Here is a short video....'til I ran out of gas!!! I'm just using the auxilary tank right now for tuning. The main tank will flow into the auxillary once done.

But I ran into a BIG problem......Too much boost!! I have a rootes type of positive displacement supercharger on this fuelie (500cc per revolution and running at crankshaft speed). I was in the process of tuning...Just had the cranking, starting and idle real close...was just getting into the off-idle and mid-range when all hell broke loose!! Even at idle it was pushing a lot of air. At 5000 RPM the boost was over 20 psi, and it bent all of my throttle plates. The engine "ran away" on me.....I changed my shorts and went back to the drawing board.
I removed all of the Suzuki throttle plates and shafts. Blocked the shaft openings. All the 4 throttle bodies do now is hold the fuel injectors. I removed the supercharger air filter and built a special plenum out of fiberglass. There is a single throttle body (less the injector) on the intake side of the supercharger now. I am just in the process of retuning the ECM.
http://s258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/23tbucket_2007/?action=view&current=001-39.mp4

Looks Good. I see your running coil on plug, what kind ls1, ford? Is it sequential or batch? Also I think I see an external alternator, I'm sure everyone would like details of that. I've been debating going to sequential fuel if I can figure out a cam sensor.

[Syscrush]

Looks Good. I see your running coil on plug, what kind ls1, ford? Is it sequential or batch? Also I think I see an external alternator, I'm sure everyone would like details of that. I've been debating going to sequential fuel if I can figure out a cam sensor.

More info in his build thread.

[23tbucket]

750essess: You are the inspiration for all of this fuel injection stuff....A big Thank You!
I did a lot of research on the "Coil-on plugs". You are correct in that usually a camshaft position sensor is needed.............But not if you use the Power/Arc ignition. This is the ONLY ignition I could find that had enough power to fire four separate coils in the wasted spark format. The coils are "Ford" 1.5 ohm type. The coils are wired in series, #1 & #4 and #2 & #3 of course. I don't think I'll gain any performance with the Coil-on-plugs...just wanted to be different. It takes a bit more time when you have to check or change plugs.....but!!!
Another BIG plus with the Power/Arc ignition is the super, super clean square-wave signal generated. This square-wave signal is absolutly perfect for triggering the Microsquirt ECM. Simply run the "tach" wire from the Power/Arc into the ECM and it's done. No unwanted signals, no resets...just perfect!

[Syscrush]

And it doesn't hurt that the COP setup looks f'n amazing!

[750essess]

I ran mine fuel only at first too with a dyna2000 ignition. Tach output triggering ecu, worked great, started instantly. I am now running a 12-1 tooth wheel on the crank to trigger and using ecu to control timing. It works but takes a second or 2 to "sync up" and run. Using the ecu for timing allows for cool stuff like cold advance along with having total control of the timing curve. There are some challenges in getting a clean signal, the ecu software has built in filtering that worked for me. This guy http://www.jbperf.com/dual_VR/index.html has a vr conditioner add on board that will solve any noise problems before the ecu now. I also dont remember if I mention the cylinder head temp sensor I am using. It is from a vw here is a link to a pic http://www.shopwiki.com/_Cylinder+Head+Temperature+Sensor+-+Part+%230280130012?o=348596800&s=41360
I drilled and tapped a valve cap to install it. Made setting the warm up more consistent.

[J.Webster Designs]

Thats one thing that I was looking for 750... How is the sensitivity on that sensor? are you having pretty linear readings from it or is it pretty exponential?

[750essess]

The temp sensor? It's about as linear as any sensor. I am using the calibration labeled Saab(bosch) that's built into the ecu. More important is the location. The valve cover temp is a good indication of the "warmness" of the engine. When it is at 160 degrees no more enrichment is needed.

[23tbucket]

760essess: Using that type of temperature sensor should work real good. I built a bracket and put a plain old GM coolant
sensor between the center cylinders on mine. I'm going to have some issues with air flow with all the stuff I've got behind the cylinders...... the engine should warm up quickly!


I pondered your build with the wheel to trigger the ignition.....very interesting stuff. It would be nice to control the ignition with the Microsquirt as it is already in place and is part of what you pay for. I might try something like you've done later. It's enough of a problem getting through the fuel tuning for now!!!!  lol.......but once it's done......it's done......no leaking, no cleaning, no jetting, no setting, no fiddle phucking.......just start and go every time...year after year!!!

 This is my second fuelie. I have a 750 DOHC 1983...turbocharged, Suzuki GSX R750 throttle bodies. The biggest problem I had when it came to tuning was pissing around for days to get a nice clean tach signal for the Microsquirt ECM and not have resets! That is mainly the reason I put the Power/Arc ignition in.

Take care: Clifford

[J.Webster Designs]

yeah 750 i was talking about the sensor and location that you have it mounted. so the valve cover is a good location for the CHT sensor?

23T, I heard that the location that you have your sensor in is not really the best one as the airflow through the cylinders cools the sensor and puts it back into enrichment mode.... let me know how it works out for you.

[J.Webster Designs]

For those that are interested, I have started my new build thread...

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=80629.0

I will be doing my updates in that thread. Here are some quick pics for inspiration for those that are looking to do the fuelie conversion...

[J.Webster Designs]

what fuel pumps are you guys running? I thought i remembered a mention of an LTR-450 fuel pump being used. any opinions on this pump?

[Retro Rocket]

what fuel pumps are you guys running? I thought i remembered a mention of an LTR-450 fuel pump being used. any opinions on this pump?

Someone also mentioned the late model Harley fuel pumps...maybe sportster..?

Mick

[J.Webster Designs]

any recommendations on fuel pumps would be greatly appreciated. Obviously the lower the current demands the better.

[Retro Rocket]

any recommendations on fuel pumps would be greatly appreciated. Obviously the lower the current demands the better.

I am way behind you guys with what i am doing, Currently i have no where to work on my project but i am going to look at the VFR alternator set up that has been used in this thread, only difference being that i am going to try and incorporate the electric start as well, don't want to be kicking a higher compression 1000cc bike all the time....Lack of electrical power is a problem but you can save a bunch of power with LED and HID lighting....

Mick

[J.Webster Designs]

retro, My build will not be a kick only set-up... I will definitely be retaining electric start. As you have already mentioned, HID and LED lighting are also planned. in-fact, the bike is already set-up with an LED array tail light.

just to get this thread up and rolling again here is a picture of where the bike stands right now....

[lordmember1969]

retro, My build will not be a kick only set-up... I will definitely be retaining electric start. As you have already mentioned, HID and LED lighting are also planned. in-fact, the bike is already set-up with an LED array tail light.

just to get this thread up and rolling again here is a picture of where the bike stands right now....

Where did you download the program to run the ecu? Thanks

[750essess]

www.tunerstudio.com for tuning software
I have a ltr450 pump in my possession and will report when I have it installed. Ails have a pwm fuel pump controller from madhu.com had it working with the cbr pump. Will do some more testing when I have the ltr pump installed. The ltr pump has been reported to only draw 1 amp. Also I do have electric start working with the vfr alt.

[J.Webster Designs]

That's what i saw 750... I think where i have looked, it looks like it is about 1.2 to 1.4 amps. i was just curious if it will flow enough for our 750cc motors...

do you have any information on the flow rates of that pump?

[Syscrush]

That's what i saw 750... I think where i have looked, it looks like it is about 1.2 to 1.4 amps. i was just curious if it will flow enough for our 750cc motors...

do you have any information on the flow rates of that pump?

Don't think in terms of displacement, think in terms of hp.  If the normal application for that pump is the same or lower hp than what you expect from your 750, then the flow rate should be fine.

[J.Webster Designs]

I am not sure what the HP rating is on that ATV, but i wouldn't see it being 100hp... that's what I am trying to figure out. I plan on modifying the motor pretty good and should be around that number.

[Syscrush]

I am not sure what the HP rating is on that ATV, but i wouldn't see it being 100hp... that's what I am trying to figure out. I plan on modifying the motor pretty good and should be around that number.

Then you'll want a pump from a 100+hp machine.

[J.Webster Designs]

that is what I am looking for, however, most of those pumps are in-tank, or are car pumps that draw lots of current. the aeromotive pump and MSD pump are looking like pretty good candidates as the current draw is "resonable" and can support up to 500HP