Author Topic: Fuel injection conversion (edit) fixed a few things (Read 166715 times)

750essess · « **Reply #550 on:** March 01, 2012, 04:36:49 am »

[http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d5.htmlurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/7530665@N06/6797455896/]

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Untitled by motu828fire, on Flickr
its works like it is mounted now but havent figured out a good way to key it to crank yet. tried drilling a hole through wheel into points hub but its very hard and cant drill into hub. debating whether to heat up hub and soften it or just make a new one with larger flange to drill and tap.

65Ch3v3LL3 · « **Reply #551 on:** March 01, 2012, 05:07:26 am »

Thanks for the pic. How did you go about setting it for TDC?

750essess · « **Reply #552 on:** March 01, 2012, 05:31:04 am »

the dowel pin in the cranck is tdc. i set the crank at tdc by that had to grind down the mark on the a case a few mm to clear the wheel. then i re marked it with a chisel. then count 8 teeth past the missing tooth and line that one up with sensor. put 80 in tooth #1 angle settings in tuner studio. pull plugs check with strobe that light matches what tuner studio says for advance. if not adjust angle. (edited offset to angle. was wrong )

65Ch3v3LL3 · « **Reply #553 on:** March 01, 2012, 05:35:39 am »

Thanks. That will certainly save me some time!

750essess · « **Reply #554 on:** March 01, 2012, 06:22:17 am »

also mark the trigger wheel when it is at tdc.

sinister902 · « **Reply #555 on:** July 13, 2012, 06:59:53 am »

This is awesome.....the few threads kicking around on here for fuel injection are making me REALLY interested in doing an FI conversion on my 650/750 hybrid motor build....I'm staying tuned.....I guess I should start reading up on microtune....I built a custom turbokit myself and tuned my ford focus using SCT, so I should hopefully be able to carry over some of my tuning knowledge to microtune assuming the tables/values are similar....

65Ch3v3LL3 · « **Reply #556 on:** July 13, 2012, 07:03:03 am »

sinister902,

That's exactly what I'm fuel injecting is a 650 with 750 sleeves and 836 pistons. Unfortunately I'm working in Afghanistan so progress is slow but if you look for my thread you will see how I plan on going about doing it.

Tim

sinister902 · « **Reply #557 on:** July 13, 2012, 07:40:31 am »

thanks 65ch3v3ll3.....I'll go looking for it now haha. Paul's thread is a great starting point, but I know he expressed wanting to do a more "how-to" type post with exact machining specs and such on a start-to-finish instructions type post......I think I have a machinist I can trust now, just need piston-machining specs on what to do with the shoulders so I can get into this..... If you're also doing EFI, MAN will your build be valuable to me haha.

65Ch3v3LL3 · « **Reply #558 on:** July 13, 2012, 07:44:45 am »

I'm doing EFI with the new microsquirt. I'm also adapting a 08 600rr rotor and stator to generate enough power for all the fuel injection issues. Actually I'm using 08 600RR throttle bodies, fuel pump, reg/rectifier, and LS truck coils to fire the plugs. I hope that when I'm home on vacation in October that I can work on the EFI wiring.

Syscrush · « **Reply #559 on:** July 13, 2012, 09:36:08 am »

Quote from: 65Ch3v3LL3 on July 13, 2012, 07:44:45 am

I'm doing EFI with the new microsquirt. I'm also adapting a 08 600rr rotor and stator to generate enough power for all the fuel injection issues. Actually I'm using 08 600RR throttle bodies, fuel pump, reg/rectifier, and LS truck coils to fire the plugs. I hope that when I'm home on vacation in October that I can work on the EFI wiring.

Won't those TB's be way, way too big for your motor? A 600rr is a ~115hp bike.

65Ch3v3LL3 · « **Reply #560 on:** July 13, 2012, 09:58:25 am »

Quote from: Syscrush on July 13, 2012, 09:36:08 am

Quote from: 65Ch3v3LL3 on July 13, 2012, 07:44:45 am
I'm doing EFI with the new microsquirt. I'm also adapting a 08 600rr rotor and stator to generate enough power for all the fuel injection issues. Actually I'm using 08 600RR throttle bodies, fuel pump, reg/rectifier, and LS truck coils to fire the plugs. I hope that when I'm home on vacation in October that I can work on the EFI wiring.
Won't those TB's be way, way too big for your motor? A 600rr is a ~115hp bike.

My EFI tuner says they will be fine. He tunes NHRA Pro Stock bikes for Star Racing so I trust his opinion. Basically in a carb you are depending on the speed of the air coming in to atomize the fuel. With the fuel injection the injector takes care of that and directs the fuel straight to the valve. Also with the added displacement, bigger valves, cam, and head porting I will need a little extra anyhow. All of this is theory until we get it running. So we shall see. If it causes tuning problems then we will work it out at that time.

sinister902 · « **Reply #561 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:50:03 am »

Quote from: Syscrush on July 13, 2012, 09:36:08 am

Won't those TB's be way, way too big for your motor? A 600rr is a ~115hp bike.

Also, you gotta figure this:

Paulages said his bike is making like 87 or 89hp or something like that with the 650/750 hybrid motor which is what 65ch3v3ll3 is doing (as am I) too......and thats with cb750 stock carbs.....the headwork 65ch3v3lle is planning with a nice exhaust and these TB's and I'm willing to bet he'll be over 100hp....so not far off

Syscrush · « **Reply #562 on:** July 13, 2012, 11:03:18 am »

Quote from: 65Ch3v3LL3 on July 13, 2012, 09:58:25 am

My EFI tuner says they will be fine. He tunes NHRA Pro Stock bikes for Star Racing so I trust his opinion. Basically in a carb you are depending on the speed of the air coming in to atomize the fuel. With the fuel injection the injector takes care of that and directs the fuel straight to the valve. Also with the added displacement, bigger valves, cam, and head porting I will need a little extra anyhow. All of this is theory until we get it running. So we shall see. If it causes tuning problems then we will work it out at that time.

Sounds like you guys are definitely on top of this. Very nice.

65Ch3v3LL3 · « **Reply #563 on:** July 13, 2012, 11:06:38 am »

My target was 80hp but my tuner says that is pretty conservative so yeah its possible I could get around 90hp. Since I'm not running the second set of injectors that is probably all I can support anyhow unless I upgrade. I think they are going to work out fine. The main reason I purchased them was that they were close to the spacing on the head and I bought a whole rack with very low miles on it for $50. I tried to keep everything 08 600rr because I picked up a complete harness for cheap so I have all the OEM connectors to wire into my harness.

Syscrush · « **Reply #564 on:** July 13, 2012, 12:00:30 pm »

Quote from: 65Ch3v3LL3 on July 13, 2012, 11:06:38 am

My target was 80hp but my tuner says that is pretty conservative so yeah its possible I could get around 90hp. Since I'm not running the second set of injectors that is probably all I can support anyhow unless I upgrade. I think they are going to work out fine. The main reason I purchased them was that they were close to the spacing on the head and I bought a whole rack with very low miles on it for $50. I tried to keep everything 08 600rr because I picked up a complete harness for cheap so I have all the OEM connectors to wire into my harness.

That's exciting. I don't know a lot about these motors, but I do think that anything over 80hp on a 2-valve air-cooled motor should be considered gravy. If you can get to 90, I think that'll be a real accomplishment.

sinister902 · « **Reply #565 on:** July 13, 2012, 12:58:52 pm »

I'd love to break the 100hp mark......I've already decided if I can't hit it with the hybrid motor and some good fueling....I'll progress in the following order until I break 100hp

-water/meth inj.
-20-25shot nitrous
-turbo (remove nitrous if that don't do it!)

Syscrush · « **Reply #566 on:** July 13, 2012, 06:01:45 pm »

Do the lower ends of the SOHC4 motors hold up to 100+hp OK?

65Ch3v3LL3 · « **Reply #567 on:** July 13, 2012, 07:40:58 pm »

Quote from: Syscrush on July 13, 2012, 06:01:45 pm

Do the lower ends of the SOHC4 motors hold up to 100+hp OK?

The crank should be fine. I'm running GSXR 1000 rods so I know they are plenty strong enough. With some good ARP fasteners it should stay together.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #568 on:** July 13, 2012, 09:57:23 pm »

Quote from: Syscrush on July 13, 2012, 06:01:45 pm

Do the lower ends of the SOHC4 motors hold up to 100+hp OK?

Bearings on the 750 are wider than on a Hyabusa so should be fine, a lot of guys here race with Methanol and can get into the 140HP range. The old Honda's were over engineered in the bottom end..

Syscrush · « **Reply #569 on:** July 14, 2012, 07:34:21 am »

Quote from: Retro Rocket on July 13, 2012, 09:57:23 pm

Bearings on the 750 are wider than on a Hyabusa so should be fine, a lot of guys here race with Methanol and can get into the 140HP range. The old Honda's were over engineered in the bottom end..

Good to know! And the oiling system holds up, too?

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #570 on:** July 14, 2012, 04:39:37 pm »

Quote from: Syscrush on July 14, 2012, 07:34:21 am

Quote from: Retro Rocket on July 13, 2012, 09:57:23 pm
Bearings on the 750 are wider than on a Hyabusa so should be fine, a lot of guys here race with Methanol and can get into the 140HP range. The old Honda's were over engineered in the bottom end..
Good to know! And the oiling system holds up, too?

Oiling system is pretty good, lightened cranks usually get the oil hole chamfer treatment, and the oil pump seals need to be kept in good condition but overall its pretty good. I see CycleX are making high volume oil pumps now, my give one of those a try...

bert96 · « **Reply #571 on:** July 14, 2012, 04:46:14 pm »

Where...where!!!?

i can't find it,i've just search on their site and i can't find the pump

Bert

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #572 on:** July 14, 2012, 05:00:20 pm »

Quote from: bert96 on July 14, 2012, 04:46:14 pm

Where...where!!!? i can't find it,i've just search on their site and i can't find the pump

Bert

Its in the products being developed section, says that they are at the manufacturing stage...

http://www.cyclexchange.net/Coming%20Soon%20Page!.htm

Just over half way down the page, no picture though...

wa-chiss · « **Reply #573 on:** October 06, 2013, 01:19:29 pm »

750essess, I've been looking at a way to produce a cam position signal as well. Is the Tach gear on the cam a 1:1 ratio? I haven't thought of using it until I saw your idea. I was going to try and find a way to adapt a reluctor wheel on the cam where the chain sprocket is. Then I could have a "bung" mounted where the breather cover is and mount a sensor there. I just don't know how much space is there and your plan seems better as long as the gear is a 1:1.

sinister902 · « **Reply #574 on:** October 08, 2013, 10:13:51 am »

I've just happened upon a set of cbr600f4i throttle bodies with harness and now am even MORE interested in EFI.....going to re-read this whole thing. Any updates on progress?

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Author Topic: Fuel injection conversion (edit) fixed a few things (Read 166715 times)