Topic: Fuel injection conversion (edit) fixed a few things

[750essess]

just caught up with this thread after a long while.....................those pumps that are designed for in-tank use usually rely on the cooling effect of the fuel inside the tank.

Your right, but I have seen a few people running them external with no problems including myself....yet. My charging system is stock alternator with solid state reg/rect and it keeps up until I turn on the headlight. Off and on I've been trying to find a rare earth magnet style flywheel that has same taper etc, no luck so far. Tried vfr800, cbr600. The newer ones have a larger diameter but same taper, am considering getting a sleeve made to adapt it. Had very little time to pursue it lately though or money for that matter lol. Will be interesting to see what you guys come up with, anybody need a tune to start with let me know. I am running microsquirt with msextra firmware alpha release 3.0.1h . If running other firmware can help with settings and map also as a starting point. I finally have my tune in a good enough state that i happy, only took a year and a half 

[bucky katt]

have you thought about getting one welded and a new taper put into the hole? i imagine any competent machinist could tig that hole up and cut the right sized hold to fit the early honda crank.

[deuce_454]

any cnc lathe could whip out a double tapered bushing in no time in mild steel...

[Laminar]

Great info, keeping my eye on this.

[deuce_454]

just caught up with this thread after a long while.....................those pumps that are designed for in-tank use usually rely on the cooling effect of the fuel inside the tank.

Your right, but I have seen a few people running them external with no problems including myself....yet. My charging system is stock alternator with solid state reg/rect and it keeps up until I turn on the headlight. Off and on I've been trying to find a rare earth magnet style flywheel that has same taper etc, no luck so far. Tried vfr800, cbr600. The newer ones have a larger diameter but same taper, am considering getting a sleeve made to adapt it. Had very little time to pursue it lately though or money for that matter lol. Will be interesting to see what you guys come up with, anybody need a tune to start with let me know. I am running microsquirt with msextra firmware alpha release 3.0.1h . If running other firmware can help with settings and map also as a starting point. I finally have my tune in a good enough state that i happy, only took a year and a half 

and ill take a copy of your tune :-)

[Soos]

I LOVE this thread.



One day... one day.
Me F.I a hopped up 650... the salt flats.....


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l8r

[750essess]

I tried to attach the file but file type is not allowed. pm me your email and I will send it to you. I will also just try renaming the extension to .doc you will then have to rename it to .msq . Might work. This runs well on my motor but unless you have exactly the same injectors etc use as just a starting point. Firmware must be ms2extra 3.0.3h alpha 0912. If you dont want to change the firmware I can help setup whatever u have.

[750essess]

any cnc lathe could whip out a double tapered bushing in no time in mild steel...

Yeah I think that is the way to go too. Will try to get to it this winter. Then have to figure out how to mount stator in cover. I alsowant to work on ignition to. Could not use the dual hall sensors from the dyna2000 directly to microsquirt, not enough accuracy at cranking. Will need a toothed wheel made up with a missing tooth and a vr sensor. Coils will be some sort of car double pole coils that have built in drivers.

[MJL]

Can this get moved to High Performance?

[deuce_454]

it worked.. i renamed it from .doc and opened it in megatune... but why are there 2 VE tables? are you running staged injection?

[750essess]

ve 2 is a trim table for the main table. The main table minimum increment is 1, the trim table is .1 . So say you need a VE table value of 6.5 you would put 6 in the main table and +.5 in the second ve. Im not sure if megatune opens this correctly either. Tuner studio is recommended for the beta and alpha firmwares. (edit) I just went down to garage and opened the tune, I dont have trim tables enabled it shouldnt be showing 2 ve tables. Are u talking about the afr table maybe? It is setup to incorporate the afr table in calculating fuel. Once u have the ve table tuned, if you want to say reach another afr at a certain point you just need to change the afr table and it automatically adjusts to reach that target (cool huh). Try opening it tunerstudio. Heres the link http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/beta/ [url]

[750essess]

will kick only give enough rpms to start with all the FI stuff?

You need to get at least 50 rpms for a few seconds for microsquirt to pick up the rpm signal.

I re-read the entire thread and edited some posts to update and clarify some info for new people reading the thread.

I also realized I never mentioned adding a vacuum tank tee'd into the vacuum lines. Vacuum is is almost no existent with pod filters and a bigger cam. This is why jetting varies so much when u install pod filters from bike to bike and they dont idle as well with them. Adding the tank smoothed out the vacuum which smoothed out my fuel pressure at idle. The regulator is controlled by vacuum, idle pressure lowered a little helping with idle pulsewidth. I also never mentioned overheating my expensive big bore motor, be careful idling these things for more than 10 minutes or so after they are warmed up. I am now running a stock motor till i get the big bore rebuilt. The stock motor pulls about 10 kpa more vacuum than the big bore, and I can idle it all day without overheating. The big bore got so hot it turned the copper head gasket blue!! Its easy not to notice the oil temp when your messing around with tuning.

[deuce_454]

im still having problems with the re-named file... it is for some reason not possible to permanently change the .extension in MS vista.... and i guess ill have to find a suitable fan to keep the engine cool when messing with the tune....

[pikeymick]

will kick only give enough rpms to start with all the FI stuff?

You need to get at least 50 rpms for a few seconds for microsquirt to pick up the rpm signal.

I re-read the entire thread and edited some posts to update and clarify some info for new people reading the thread.

I also realized I never mentioned adding a vacuum tank tee'd into the vacuum lines. Vacuum is is almost no existent with pod filters and a bigger cam. This is why jetting varies so much when u install pod filters from bike to bike and they dont idle as well with them. Adding the tank smoothed out the vacuum which smoothed out my fuel pressure at idle. The regulator is controlled by vacuum, idle pressure lowered a little helping with idle pulsewidth. I also never mentioned overheating my expensive big bore motor, be careful idling these things for more than 10 minutes or so after they are warmed up. I am now running a stock motor till i get the big bore rebuilt. The stock motor pulls about 10 kpa more vacuum than the big bore, and I can idle it all day without overheating. The big bore got so hot it turned the copper head gasket blue!! Its easy not to notice the oil temp when your messing around with tuning.

Good info thank! Sometimes throwing a fan on it while it sits is enough to keep the temp down.

[olie05]

I have an idea of how I might be tuning a motorcycle with megasquirt, but i'm curious as to how you tuned yours. Did you just free rev with the bike in neutral and tune that using an o2 sensor... did you use the laptop in the backpack method?

please explain.

Thanks!

[750essess]

im still having problems with the re-named file... it is for some reason not possible to permanently change the .extension in MS vista.... and i guess ill have to find a suitable fan to keep the engine cool when messing with the tune....

pm me with your email and i'll send you the file.

[750essess]

I have an idea of how I might be tuning a motorcycle with megasquirt, but i'm curious as to how you tuned yours. Did you just free rev with the bike in neutral and tune that using an o2 sensor... did you use the laptop in the backpack method?

please explain.

Thanks!

I used a laptop bag mounted to side of the bike like a saddle bag. You datalog it and make changes accordingly to get it to run reasonably the check it with megalog viewer. This program reads the data log and corrects the fuel map automatically. Also I left out how to setup tunerstudio for the tune. Create new project, select the ms2extra firmware ini in ecu definition. This is in the download package with the firmware. Make sure you use the microsquirt one. If you have a squirt connected and the firmware downloaded it should automatically set this up for u. Leave the settings on the next page at default except for ego, set it to single wideband lc1. I think thats it let me know if I missed something.

[greasy j]

very cool, I hope you get it to work. I asked someone when I first got a dyna electronic ignition why they didn't have something similar for your carbs to go to FI. he said that would be stupid no one would want it. start making 'em and I'll buy one.

[Joksa]

They had an external pump

Here's one idea. Intertank with internal pump.

[Soos]

very cool, I hope you get it to work. I asked someone when I first got a dyna electronic ignition why they didn't have something similar for your carbs to go to FI. he said that would be stupid no one would want it. start making 'em and I'll buy one.

The newest market emerges......




l8r

[750essess]

They had an external pump

Here's one idea. Intertank with internal pump.

I'm sure that works, but not exactly the cleanest arrangement. There is just no room to work with on a stock framed bike. The chopper guys should have an easier time.

[J.Webster Designs]

hey 750, Is your bike running all the stock electronic components, connectors, etc....? do you think that if you go to full LED lighting EVERYWHERE and a properly efficient HID setup, upgraded V-reg, rectifier, modern efficient connectors, etc... there would be a little more leeway with electronic power? I am really interested in doing fuel injection but dont want to be killing batteries all the time.

[MJL]

I thought about that, but I couldn't find suitable answers to how much the stock alternator puts out, and how much power is consumed by the lights.  I still think some kind of high output alternator is the best route to take.

[Retro Rocket]

I still think some kind of high output alternator is the best route to take.

Absolutely, now where do we find that because i have been searching for ever and come up with nothing......


Mick

[J.Webster Designs]

I think that we need to figure out how to get our alternators to produce more. Has anyone ever looked into rewinding or any other modifications to a stock alternator?