Topic: CB750F - decent deal I think (make that thought) UPDATE: It's over

[Cvillechopper]

The last person to have had the bike titled was him.  In order for me to get a title in VA I have to go through the abandoned vehicle process and it requires that you notify the last known holder of a title and allow them remove the vehicle if they would like.  Legally he could just come get the bike and I couldn't say squat.  Of course, if he had said that, I'd have stripped everything I could off the bike and he could have pushed the rolling chassis and engine off my property. 

If there's a way to get a title that doesn't require me to give it up and could be done in the next few days without me spending a ton of $$, I'd be interested.  Otherwise, I'll just take the money he's offering me and chalk it up to a learning experience.

[UnCrash]

As the lawyers like to say, "Posession is 9/10ths of the law"

I don't think he has much of a case. 

Personally I wouln't hand it over, and would tell him to take you to small claims court over it if he wants to.  It will cost him $250 to register the complaint in court (in Maine anyway), and the judge would never side in his favor anyway if you have a receipt of your purchase from the garage.

This is totally bull#$%*.

Come up to Maine, sell it to me for $100  I'll register it (no title required in Maine) ,  pay excise tax and notify the state that I'll be selling the bike out of state.  For $5.00 they'll issue me an Official State Record of registration, stating no title is required in Maine.  This is honored by all other states that the woman at the DMV was aware of.  You then buy the bike back from me for my cost in it, and you can register it in VA.

I know it's a pita, but it is one option.

This PO should go in the PO's that SUCK hall of fame.

[ofreen]

After talking for a few and letting him know just how dissappointed I was that he was going back on his earlier statement he said he'd give me $1,000 total to help compensate for my time and effort if I complete the tank and brake work (I hadn't ordered the POR-15 at that point).  Since I'm kinda at his mercy I said yeh, but I am really not happy about it. 

Your time is worth a helluva lot more than that, and he should pay accordingly.  Your time is worth no less than what he would have paid at the time he gave the bike up.

Legally he could just come get the bike and I couldn't say squat.  Of course, if he had said that, I'd have stripped everything I could off the bike and he could have pushed the rolling chassis and engine off my property. 

The guy is an opportunist and a class A prick to say the least.  That's what I would do.  Looks like there are some very good parts there, and they would become very scarce if it were me.

[sandcastcb750]

I got screwed buying a Goldwing the same way; could not get a title.

It was from a friend who had a 1982 Goldwing which had 5000 miles. Didn't run, had rust down low but paint was perfect. He said he would send the title when he found it. I spent about 500-600 on the bike when after hearing I'd get the title, he would find it, after waiting 12 months. Sure he sold it cheap to me $100, but I never got a title. He was telling me, all the while, that another guy wanted it and, that once it was fixed, it was worth a lot.

Another guy , who I wanted to fix it for me (so I could ride it), took it away. I said "can you fix it". He never seemed positive about it. Later, he said "how much do you want for it?" I said I want at least $500 back from what I spent. He sends me $200 and never another dime. I can't force him to do anything because I don't have a title. I don't remember the VIN and it is hidden in Maine.

Finally, I catch up with the guy that took the bike away to MAINE (I am in Boston area). I figure that since he got it cheap, and carbs were rebuilt (I paid a lot for that), maybe he would throw a bone to me by offering some of the parts. I said "what do you want for the painted parts?" He responds $1000 but the trunk has been sold to another guy. I said " But, you only paid me $200!". Says he "Yea but if I sold it for less, I wouldn't make any money" Screw me.

Three years later, I have no bike, lost $400, and a friend of the original guy who said it was worth more than $100, still wants it.

Moral of the story..........No title and you get screwed. Unless it has parts value, walk away from untitled bikes.

[750goes]

Tell the title holder if he wants it - come get it- bring your cash to the value of $3000 for the storage and removal costs you have incurred so far.... then I would strip every part off it - leave him the naked frame and two bald tyres only... ..then demand he pay the $3000 or else you take him to court... what a prick...

[Roach Carver]

If the guy said keep it, then slept on it and decided he wanted it, what is to keep him from reneging on the current deal. I would strip my parts and tell him no thanks, come get his parts bike.

[Cvillechopper]

I just got an e-mail back from the guy that I bought it from.  He's going to meet me one night this week and sign a bill of sale.  I think DMV will give me a title based on the bill of sale since the "former owner's" title is listed with DMV as having a disposition of SOLD.  He even reported it to DMV as having been legitimately sold to someone else.  Once I get the title in hand I'll call the guy back and let him know that I'm not interested in selling.  Until then I don't want to piss him off too much cause $1K is better than nothing even if it does make me sick to do it.  I'll let you all know once I figure it out at DMV.  Wish me luck.

[Cvillechopper]

Oh.  Here's the pics of the bike, minus the POR-15 in the tank.  Other than that, she's ready to ride.

[ofreen]

Good luck at the DMV. 

How many miles are showing on the odo?

[Cvillechopper]

Just under 17K original.  Once I synched the carbs she revved happily up to 7K without a problem.  This is with only one time setting the valves (gonna do that again after she's run a bit, and only a static timing.  Has a little primary rattle but what 750 doesn't?

[mikedialect]

ITS....


http://www.its-titles.com/firefox/index.htm


now that I see I have a few people saying the same I won't feel AS guilty saying this - he sold it. You bought it from the guy he sold it to. It's yours. Go ITS and get a title. He doesn't have any rights in regards to 'ownership' as far as being fair goes. There is no reason you should bend over being a nice guy in this scenario. He is an opportunist don't be his bait.

[Cvillechopper]

That would work if I had tried it a bit earlier.  He wants to come pick it up this weekend and I'd need to have a title in hand before letting him know that I don't intend to sell it to him or he'll go back on the $1K, no doubt. 

Anyone live in a state where a bill of sale is all that's required to title these old bikes?  I just checked with my DMV and there is no way for me to get a title without the previous owner having signed it over or going through the abandoned vehicle process which is what got me into this position to begin with.  I've run the vehicle history and his title is listed as having a disposition of SOLD in 1992 and they still won't let me get a title without contacting him.  15 years and it looks like he wins...

Looks like I'm kinda screwed.

[dusterdude]

alabama,georgia and i think tennessee used to at least take a bill of sale.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

I would like to think that if the official records show he sold it then he sold it irregardless of what he has. Do you know any attornies that could provide some free legal advice? If he's facing potential expensive legal fees himself to force the issue will it be worth it to him to have to deal with all the time and expense to possibly not get it back?! At this point I'd tell him not to bother coming over. Didn't you just give this bike away and it's not on your premises? Besides unless you invite him he has no reason to be on your property. Don't let him make you be in a hurry. When was the last time he saw this your bike anyway? Why be the good guy when he's being an a$$hole?!

[Cvillechopper]

Why be the good guy when he's being an a$$hole?!

This is the question that has kept me from sleeping the last 2 nights. 

Since I first held a wrench in my hand (well before hair started to grow anywhere other than my head), I've been taught that a machine is more than just metal, rubber, wood, etc.  There is an inherent beauty in function as much as in form.  It's one of the reasons I have come to love every bike I've every worked on and have been hurt every time I've seen it mistreated by the owner.

I've also always held a belief that being a good person is more than not screwing others over.  It's the ability to look past (or at least attempt to) the immediate issue and wonder "how will I feel about this decision in 5 years?".  I am not naive nor do I believe you should allow yourself to be walked on.  I have a gun but would hate to use it.  I have fought to protect myself and ones I love, but would rather talk a situation down.  Make no mistake, I'm a realist and I know my own sense of guilt tends to be higher than necessary at times.

I know this guy genuinely thinks that he's doing me a favor by giving me ANYTHING for the bike since he has a legal (according to VA) right to it.  He did say "I'll give you the money you paid for the bike and the parts.  I guess you'll have to chalk your time up to a learning experience." when we first started talking on Sunday.  It wasn't until I protested that he offered to pay me something for my time.  That phrase and the absolute pain I'll experience knowing that this machine is destined to rot in his garage has been what is keeping me from just saying,"let the old man have it."

All of this rambling leads to this question...
Why be the good guy when he's being an a$$hole?!

Because I don't have a choice?
Because I'll be able to sleep with myself?
It's easier and I'm out of energy?

I really don't know.  I am completely torn and don't have time to really decide.  I either have to find someone willing to title it in a state that accepts a bill of sale from me (and be a trusting individual again which would make my wife MAD) then have them sell it back to me or just accept that this machine is at least going to get to go around the block a few times before it rots and an old man will be happy.  All this in the next 3 days.

DAMN!  I need a beer and don't get off work for another 3 hours.

[Cvillechopper]

alabama,georgia and i think tennessee used to at least take a bill of sale.

Thanks Mark.  I just called the Georgia DMV and they said no go.  So far, VA, MD, GA, won't accept a bill of sale without an actual title.  I'll try TN and AL this afternoon just in case. 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

CVille,

Bottom line - just do what feels like the right thing for you to do. 

[Burke]

Yikes, sorry to hear your situation.
In MI, I have received titles by saying that the bike was a freebie and didn't run/the PO just wanted it out of his garage.
But I did this knowing that the bike had not been registered for at least 7 years.

[Cvillechopper]

VA doesn't care how long it's been.  This bike hasn't been titled nor registered for 15 years and they still want the paperwork. 

I am so whinny right now...  I'm begining to annoy myself.

[Dave Wyatt]

Put a mechanics lein on it through the DMV.  Then hold the bike until he comes up with all the cash (parts and labor) to satisfy the lein.  He will either do that, or surrender ownership.

[L.A. Nomad........]

JUST MY TWO CENTS:

Pull the motor, tank, seat, body parts, tires and anything you put on. Just give him the frame! Buy a cheap frame and viola, another nice bike! Also when he comes to get the frame, offer cash for his signature.

L.A. Nomad.

This bike belongs to you...... Sell the parts to recover money invested.....

[TwoTired]

Throughout this thread, I've not heard one mention of any ownership papers or a simple bill of sale document.  No papers to show your have any legal right to the motorcycle.  If this is true, then the bike is not now, and never has been, yours.

Assuming you have NO papers to show you have any legal right to this property, and have paid no fees to the state for them to provide you ANY help... read on.

Cut your losses.  Learn the lesson that a motor vehicle is not yours until the state says so, or until you can prove, in court, that you have a legal right to the property.

At this point, anything you do to create dual ownership papers, will be viewed as fraud and motor vehicle theft in the eyes of your home state government.

A mechanics lien will not be possible, since you do not have a signed paper authorizing you to provide work and service to the bike.  You have no right for recompense for anything you volunteered to do on the bike.  Particularly if you aren't paying for a business license, or have legitimate business papers and filing income reports on that business to the state.

So, you found a deal that seemed to good to be true.  It was.  It sounds insensitive, I know.  But, you were paid for your time with the enjoyment of working on the bike, having no agreement beforehand either on paper or verbal, to improve what is legally owned by another individual.

If a person robs a bank and uses the money to garner investment interest, is he still entitled to the profits?

If the person in question was truly a total #$%*, instead of simply shady, he would simply call the cops and tell them he has located his stolen bike on your property.  Would they assist him in recovering same?

Sorry, but just take this as a learning experience.  Some lessons are learned the hard way.  I've turned down many "good deals", because there weren't the required ownership papers.    In the end, if people want to destroy their own property, they have the legal right to do so in any way that pleases them.

Who knows, maybe, just maybe, the guy will ultimately send future work your way when people learn of the nice work you did to his bike?

My  $.02

[ofreen]

All of this rambling leads to this question...
Why be the good guy when he's being an a$$hole?!

Because I don't have a choice?
Because I'll be able to sleep with myself?
It's easier and I'm out of energy?

Cvillechopper, you sound like a good guy.  You want to do the right thing because it is right and for no other reason.  The problem comes when it is hard to know what is right.  As you have told the story, it is not right that the SOB ends up with the bike.  The right thing is for you to have it.  To me the choice is how much do you want to complicate your life. 

One thing for sure, I'd make sure he has the thousand bucks with him before he even sees the bike.  The mechanic's lien idea sounds like a possibility, too.

[andy750]

Personally Id take the $1000 (or say its another $200 for the extra time.....) and let it go. Tell him if he wants to sell it in the future to give you a call...offer much less money when he does, when its in a state of disrepair....you got the bike cheap without papers, cut your losses and better luck next time.

Good luck
Andy

[dusterdude]

Put a mechanics lein on it through the DMV.  Then hold the bike until he comes up with all the cash (parts and labor) to satisfy the lein.  He will either do that, or surrender ownership.

damn good idea.