Topic: Vintage Guitar advice needed ~

[Uncle Ernie]

I just piddle on an old box I got horse trading...
Got a chance to pick up a couple of guitars and I have no idea what they're worth or what to offer.  Seems like I remember a few guys are into that stuff here, so-
1890 George Washburn
1954 Martin model 5-18
Both in decent shape.  Any ideas?

[fuzzybutt]

mmmmmmmmmmmm what is the asking price on that martin? i'd love to have one of those myself

[Rocking-M]

Ernie, the Martin brings big bucks and has a big sound

here is a link to some Martins like you've found, mostly all sold.
Either it's an 0=18 or a D-18

http://www.gryphonstrings.com/cool_stuff/Vintage_Gallery/Flattop_Acoustic/index.html

[dustyc]

Without really knowing the condition it's hard to say(a thorough check inside and out by a pro).  It's a pretty safe bet you're talking thousands, but your idea of decent shape and mine might be different. 

[Rocking-M]

48-3891 C F Martin (used, early 1960) model 5-18 acoustic guitar, #171991,
in excellent condition with original chipboard case. This guitar shows light normal signs of use only, a small incipient pickguard crack in the wood at the lower bass edge of the pickguard; it is missing a black bridge pin and it needs (and by now hopefully will have received) a neck reset, a refret and a bridge reglue. The guitar has its original (somewhat oxidized) Grover brand open-back tuners, a rosewood fingerboard inlaid with 3 pearl dots, a rosewood bridge with a “through” saddle, a tortoise-colored teardrop pickguard, white-black-white top purfling and tortoise celluloid binding top and back. These little “three-quarter” sized Martin Minnys will fool ya – they look petite, but they roar like a mountain lion that has managed to fall headfirst into a Postal Service mailbox. $1850 or, at our cash discount price, $1795.

[333]

You don't want either one.  Nasty guitars.  Let me know where they are available.  I'll take them and dispose of them.  No one should have to deal with that mess.

[Rocking-M]

You don't want either one.  Nasty guitars.  Let me know where they are available.  I'll take them and dispose of them.  No one should have to deal with that mess.

I was going to tell E that but I decided to be polite. 

[333]

So, by now you should know what you have a chance at getting.  If not, let me give you another example.  A local franchise of Woodcraft( a high-end woodworking shop) is offering(well, 3 or so years ago) a class where you built one of 3 models of Martin Guitars (authorized by Martin) for about $800.00.  So you end up with a Martin for about half the price of retail, that you built yourself. Cool!!!

[Uncle Ernie]

Yeah- but it won't have aged.
Yanno- back around '78 ( ? ) somebody offered me $500 for my current guitar.  it sho am ugly, but the sound is like angels on high.  I can put my ear on the body and listen to one clear note and it brings a tear to my eye.   OK- so I'm a sap.  Sue me.
Haven't begun negotiations yet.  Just wanted to get an idea.  A friend has one of those little Martins. He calls it the "travel size".  He makes everything sound good, though.  Man he can PICK.
He keeps asking me to play with him and some guys, but I'm self-taught and I can't figure out what they're doing.  It's like I came up with my own system.  Funny because his jawed dropped the first time he saw what I was doing. 

I don't want to cheat anyone, and I don't have money from here to there, either.  We'll see... It's kind of like getting close to a cool old bike and wondering "if", "maybe" kind of stuff.  Sort of like the kid who offered me $1500 for my Indian one day.  Since it was all the money he had, I have to say it was the biggest offer I got.

[fuzzybutt]

martin backpacker! i have one too, great little guitar it is. i want to start collecting old "cheap" electric guitars. the old sears silvertone, danelectro, stuff like that.

[Uncle Ernie]

That's right- 'Backpacker"!
After mashing on steel strings so long, I just don't get electric strings.  I don't seem able to go from one to the other.

AS long as we're on guitars, I've been wondering lately why you don't see those big mexian-style bass guitars used in bluegrass instead of a stand-up bass.

[gerhed]

Ernie,

Like to hear some of your picking.

gerhed

[tramp]

pick up a copy of vintage guitar
there should be dealers there that can help you

[333]

That's right- 'Backpacker"!
After mashing on steel strings so long, I just don't get electric strings.  I don't seem able to go from one to the other.

AS long as we're on guitars, I've been wondering lately why you don't see those big mexian-style bass guitars used in bluegrass instead of a stand-up bass.

A standard string bass is a step up from what they used when bluegrass was first around.  Remember the washtub, single string bass?

[Uncle Ernie]

I knew a guy in San Francisco who could play one of those -made with a plastic bucket and some kind of string.  he made it sound like Yo-Yo Ma was in the house.  Gee he was good.

Gerhed, I'll act like a putz at most parties, but I'm relived to say that I have no way of recording myself play.  Even if I did, I'd have to figure out another excuse.

Well- THE BIG NEWS is that someone was playing with my head.  I just found out that these guitars are coming up at Bagwell auctions in about an hour.  Egg on my face.  Doody-icky. This place does a decent job of advertising, too.

Pretty good joke, actually.  Plotting the proper evenge will take some time.  When I worked with this guy, I taped a banana peel on the back of his desk and listened to him #$%* about the damn flies all summer.  Hard to work when you're laughing all the time.

Here's a couple more;  Switch just two keys on someones keyboard.  They pop right off.  Or take the ball out of a mouse and put a grape in there.  They'll go nuts for a while.




9 PM; Kathleen went to the auction and the guitars went for $950 each.  She said just about everything at that auction will be taken by dealers down to Atlanta where they will double their money.

Over and OUT

[azuredesign]

48-3891 C F Martin (used, early 1960) model 5-18 acoustic guitar, #171991,
in excellent condition with original chipboard case. This guitar shows light normal signs of use only, a small incipient pickguard crack in the wood at the lower bass edge of the pickguard; it is missing a black bridge pin and it needs (and by now hopefully will have received) a neck reset, a refret and a bridge reglue. The guitar has its original (somewhat oxidized) Grover brand open-back tuners, a rosewood fingerboard inlaid with 3 pearl dots, a rosewood bridge with a “through” saddle, a tortoise-colored teardrop pickguard, white-black-white top purfling and tortoise celluloid binding top and back. These little “three-quarter” sized Martin Minnys will fool ya – they look petite, but they roar like a mountain lion that has managed to fall headfirst into a Postal Service mailbox. $1850 or, at our cash discount price, $1795.

Are those photos from the Skinner auction?  The text sounds like Stan Jay wrote it. Do you work/own a vintage shop?

[azuredesign]

Yeah- but it won't have aged.
Yanno- back around '78 ( ? ) somebody offered me $500 for my current guitar.  it sho am ugly, but the sound is like angels on high.  I can put my ear on the body and listen to one clear note and it brings a tear to my eye.   OK- so I'm a sap.  Sue me.
Haven't begun negotiations yet.  Just wanted to get an idea.  A friend has one of those little Martins. He calls it the "travel size".  He makes everything sound good, though.  Man he can PICK.
He keeps asking me to play with him and some guys, but I'm self-taught and I can't figure out what they're doing.  It's like I came up with my own system.  Funny because his jawed dropped the first time he saw what I was doing. 

I don't want to cheat anyone, and I don't have money from here to there, either.  We'll see... It's kind of like getting close to a cool old bike and wondering "if", "maybe" kind of stuff.  Sort of like the kid who offered me $1500 for my Indian one day.  Since it was all the money he had, I have to say it was the biggest offer I got.

Hey Uncle,

I've loved playing guitars for a long time as well. I started buying and selling in the 60's, and ran a vintage shop back in the 70's that also a dealer for Martin and a whole bunch of the small marques of the day.  If you don't mind me asking, what is your current guit?
Keep on playing!
Ben

[Uncle Ernie]

I'll post a picture of it tomorrow.  I think it's japanese, but the label was taken out.  It looks like a pool cue went through it, but it doesn't seem to have affected the sound.  maybe it even helped? 

[Brantley]

I believe Rocking-M's post is a Mandolin Bros ad (so, yeah, azuredesign, it's Stan Jay). Ernie, call information, Mandolin Bros., Staten Island, New York. (Sorry, I don't have the number anymore). It's been a few years since I've called, but you used to could tell their operator you want to find the value of a guitar and you'd be connected to some cat who'd ask a few questions and tell you what he thought is was worth. My experience has always been really friendly even though you're not buying from them. Worth a shot.

[azuredesign]

I'll post a picture of it tomorrow.  I think it's japanese, but the label was taken out.  It looks like a pool cue went through it, but it doesn't seem to have affected the sound.  maybe it even helped? 

I had a cat like that once. I really loved that cat!

[azuredesign]

I believe Rocking-M's post is a Mandolin Bros ad (so, yeah, azuredesign, it's Stan Jay). Ernie, call information, Mandolin Bros., Staten Island, New York. (Sorry, I don't have the number anymore). It's been a few years since I've called, but you used to could tell their operator you want to find the value of a guitar and you'd be connected to some cat who'd ask a few questions and tell you what he thought is was worth. My experience has always been really friendly even though you're not buying from them. Worth a shot.

I'd be honored to share room here with Stan. He's one of the early guys to appreciate and vend old acoustic stringed stuff, he's put out great circulars for forever, and I learned more about D'Angelico guitars during my one visit to Mandolin Brothers in the early 90's, than I had gained in the previous 20 years, as there were half a dozen to try when I visited. No hard sell, everyone there was helpful. My only impediment to visiting more frequently is the remote location from points north, although the free ferry ride is really worth the price!

[MRieck]

I believe Rocking-M's post is a Mandolin Bros ad (so, yeah, azuredesign, it's Stan Jay). Ernie, call information, Mandolin Bros., Staten Island, New York. (Sorry, I don't have the number anymore). It's been a few years since I've called, but you used to could tell their operator you want to find the value of a guitar and you'd be connected to some cat who'd ask a few questions and tell you what he thought is was worth. My experience has always been really friendly even though you're not buying from them. Worth a shot.

I'd be honored to share room here with Stan. He's one of the early guys to appreciate and vend old acoustic stringed stuff, he's put out great circulars for forever, and I learned more about D'Angelico guitars during my one visit to Mandolin Brothers in the early 90's, than I had gained in the previous 20 years, as there were half a dozen to try when I visited. No hard sell, everyone there was helpful. My only impediment to visiting more frequently is the remote location from points north, although the free ferry ride is really worth the price!

I've never known distance to dissuade you Ben. Just seems to increase your motivation to get there.

[azuredesign]

I've never known distance to dissuade you Ben. Just seems to increase your motivation to get there.

So... mid ohio Vintage races.. July....

[Uncle Ernie]

This has been an interesting thread for me.  I realize that I've had this and my journal longer than anything else.  I don't play much anymore, but noddling around today has got me going.  It's a great sound; full and resonant, and it holds a note all the way to over there. 

Maybe one of you expert types can look at what's left of the label and recognize anything?

[333]

I'll post a picture of it tomorrow.  I think it's japanese, but the label was taken out.  It looks like a pool cue went through it, but it doesn't seem to have affected the sound.  maybe it even helped? 

I had a cat like that once. I really loved that cat!

You had a cat that "I think it's japanese, but the label was taken out. It looks like a pool cue went through it, but it doesn't seem to have affected the sound."?  Cats have labels?

[firecracker]

You had a cat that "I think it's japanese, but the label was taken out. It looks like a pool cue went through it, but it doesn't seem to have affected the sound."?  Cats have labels?

Alright, stop fooling around and take this straight to the Shameless thread.  Do not pass GO, do not collect $200...

 

[azuredesign]

This has been an interesting thread for me.  I realize that I've had this and my journal longer than anything else.  I don't play much anymore, but noddling around today has got me going.  It's a great sound; full and resonant, and it holds a note all the way to over there. 

Maybe one of you expert types can look at what's left of the label and recognize anything?

Thanks for the photos, Uncle. That is one well used and well loved 70's Japanese guit. I don't recoginze the label, but the body shape is similar to the Harmony Sovereign, although the bridge is different. There was a japanese guitar maker named Marlin as I recall. I keep an eye out and let you know if I come across anything similar. If you liked the sound of that big drednaught you probably wouldn't have cared for the little Martin or Washburn sound as much. The smaller guitars can be loud in a piercing way, but don't have the warm bass resonance and sustain that the bigger bodys give.

[azuredesign]

I'll post a picture of it tomorrow.  I think it's japanese, but the label was taken out.  It looks like a pool cue went through it, but it doesn't seem to have affected the sound.  maybe it even helped? 

I had a cat like that once. I really loved that cat!

You had a cat that "I think it's japanese, but the label was taken out. It looks like a pool cue went through it, but it doesn't seem to have affected the sound."?  Cats have labels?

Like Ernie's old,  well used and loved guitar, I had the best cat in the world. He passed in September and I miss the old bum.

[Rocking-M]

This is what I picked up last year,



Great sound and it's a 72 vintage.

[Rocking-M]

48-3891 C F Martin (used, early 1960) model 5-18 acoustic guitar, #171991,
in excellent condition with original chipboard case. This guitar shows light normal signs of use only, a small incipient pickguard crack in the wood at the lower bass edge of the pickguard; it is missing a black bridge pin and it needs (and by now hopefully will have received) a neck reset, a refret and a bridge reglue. The guitar has its original (somewhat oxidized) Grover brand open-back tuners, a rosewood fingerboard inlaid with 3 pearl dots, a rosewood bridge with a “through” saddle, a tortoise-colored teardrop pickguard, white-black-white top purfling and tortoise celluloid binding top and back. These little “three-quarter” sized Martin Minnys will fool ya – they look petite, but they roar like a mountain lion that has managed to fall headfirst into a Postal Service mailbox. $1850 or, at our cash discount price, $1795.

Are those photos from the Skinner auction?  The text sounds like Stan Jay wrote it. Do you work/own a vintage shop?

I found the picture on line, can't recall where so it could be as you describe.
Maybe I could go into a new line of work eh? 
I see a lot of older Martins and Gibson's listed around here in local trading magazines. Pretty cheap too!

[Uncle Ernie]

If you ever get a chance to see Roy Rogers, especially at a smaller venue, that guy plays a 12 string blues guitar like you've never heard.  Bottle neck, too.  He must have hands that could bring down a rhino.  His voice sucks, but he jams otherwise.  He produced an album that was big for a while... Old blues guy who's real famous... several famous people were on it and the one Bonnie Raitt was on got some radio time...

I wasn't kidding about giving my brain to someone who could use it.
Shoulda saved some for myself.

[azuredesign]

I found the picture on line, can't recall where so it could be as you describe.
Maybe I could go into a new line of work eh? 
I see a lot of older Martins and Gibson's listed around here in local trading magazines. Pretty cheap too!

Hi, It was from Mandolin Bros, they use similar identifing numbers on some of their photos to the Skinner Auction catalog. If you see anything you think is a good deal, let me know. If I can use it, I'll pay you a finder's fee. I would have to suggest that you hold onto your day gig though, as it's a tougher game than it used to be, now that some instruments are being offered for hundreds of thousands of bucks, and everybody is an expert. I mostly just buy stuff I enjoy having, but sell something every once in a while. It was kind of a relief to realize that it doen't matter too much whether I have a decent guitar or a very expensive one, my playing still sounds about the same and frustrates me more than not.
Thanks for writing back!

If you ever get a chance to see Roy Rogers, especially at a smaller venue, that guy plays a 12 string blues guitar like you've never heard.  Bottle neck, too.  He must have hands that could bring down a rhino.  His voice sucks, but he jams otherwise.  He produced an album that was big for a while... Old blues guy who's real famous... several famous people were on it and the one Bonnie Raitt was on got some radio time...

I wasn't kidding about giving my brain to someone who could use it.
Shoulda saved some for myself.

Thanks for the suggestion! I've heard Roy Rogers on recordings and like his playing, his sort of old time take on things reminds me a little of Leon Redbone, or young Ry Cooder. When you saw him was he playing with Norton Buffalo, the harmonica player? I checked and found that he had produced records for two old players, the late, great John Lee Hooker( I read Bonnie Raitt  helped rekindle his career), as well as Rambling Jack Elliot. Some other less know slide players I like are  Earl Hooker, who was a great slide player, more in the electric Chicago , and less in the acoustic delta style. Another guy who I like is Dave Hole, an Australian guy, who's got a great electric sound. Have you listened much to Jerry Douglas, a real virtuoso dobro player? I think he was on the soundtrack for the movie Brother, Where Art Thou
As you might have noticed, I love this stuff and can quickly bore almost anyone to tears

[gregwaits]

When I got out of the army band at west point I had intended to stop by in Nazareth PA on the way home to Texas to visit the Martin factory and buy a new D-18. I talked myself out of it based on the fact that I am not a pro guitar player. I make money playing trombone, not guitar!

If I had bought one then, it would be a nice 23 year old player now!

I content myself with an old Yamaha FG 110 from the 70s. I love the small size guitars like this one.

I also have a 1979 Ibanez Artist, model 2630. This is the copy of the Gibson ES335, and it rocks! I picked it up in a pawn shop for $500, spent another $200 or so on setups and rewiring it. This one I will never sell. I saw one on Ebay go for $1700 recently!

[azuredesign]

When I got out of the army band at west point I had intended to stop by in Nazareth PA on the way home to Texas to visit the Martin factory and buy a new D-18. I talked myself out of it based on the fact that I am not a pro guitar player. I make money playing trombone, not guitar!

If I had bought one then, it would be a nice 23 year old player now!

I content myself with an old Yamaha FG 110 from the 70s. I love the small size guitars like this one.

I also have a 1979 Ibanez Artist, model 2630. This is the copy of the Gibson ES335, and it rocks! I picked it up in a pawn shop for $500, spent another $200 or so on setups and rewiring it. This one I will never sell. I saw one on Ebay go for $1700 recently!

Isn't that the same guitar that John Scofield uses and popularized? I like that style of guitar, having fallen under the spell of Freddie and B.B. King as a young feller. These days, I prefer guitars that are completely hollow, like the Epi Casino or Gibson es-330 as they are lighter. Also, the volume levels I play at now don't usually cause feedback.

I like small bodied guits more and more as my own body gets bigger and bigger. I do however also like big guits and have had a small Taylor and a large Guild f-50 around for quite a few years. I also like the Martin D guitars, and have been looking for one for a while now. The mahogany on the 18's sounds really nice to me on that body style especially when it's dried out a bit over the years. I've heard the current Golden Era 18's are pretty nice.

Here in New England too much drying out is not a good thing as the low winter humidity and dry heat cause a lot of cracking this time of year.

It seems like Texas has a lot of good college level jazz programs. Doesn't UNT's program have a strong t-bone following? I had the good fortune of studying with a good arranger and bone player, named Charles Greenlee when I did the UMass program back in the 70's. I also had good luck in working as a stage hand for some big outdoor shows in Boston about 15 -20 odd years ago. I remember being onstage during a Maceo Parker set and watching 30,000 people butt rocking while Fred Wesley let it rip. Quite a wonderful thing!

[gregwaits]

Exactly...the 2630 is the direct predecessor of the AS200 which in turn evolved into the John Scofield model. They have become extremely collectible.

I got my masters in jazz studies/theory from the U of North Texas and I played in the One O clock lab band back then. It is a great school. Some kids complain about how competitive and political the scene is there. I always tell them, guess what, so is the real world of the music business. Get used to it!


Maceo and Fred! Wow, I would have loved to have seen that concert!

[Uncle Ernie]

John Lee Hooker.  I saw him at the Great American Music Hall- rather sad.  he could barely move while a whole show was going on around him.  I got the impression he was just the excuse to sell tickets.  That's a super album, though.
Roy Rogers' albums suck so bad it makes me mad.  They throw everything in there but the kitchen sink and the Morom Tabernacle Choir.  Way over-produced. 
I saw him once, south of Market with Charlie Musslewhite... bleh
These guys have to be seen and felt and heard in small venues, IMO.  I found Rogers in a small bar on Grant St (called the Saloon?) that was bsmoke filled an in your face.  Him and a bass player and a mic.  He sure packed 'em in, and I would fight my way to the front.  Sometimes it seemed you couldn't even see his fingers move, but he never flubbed a note. 
What a contrast to Tab Benoit who can't make a guitar last one whole song without breaking at least one string.  I bought one of HIS albums just for the first tune. 

Yanno- reading the above posts, I don't want to give anyone the impression that I know anything.  Everything I talk about is from my own experiences- and those are fairly limited.  I'm not educated on guitars or music or anything.

[azuredesign]

Yanno- reading the above posts, I don't want to give anyone the impression that I know anything.  Everything I talk about is from my own experiences- and those are fairly limited.  I'm not educated on guitars or music or anything.

I've always found your opinions about other stuff interesting and insightful, isn't that enough for here too?