Author Topic: Cylinder head cover - what am I doing wrong?? (Read 3043 times)

GeoffT · « **on:** February 13, 2008, 06:26:29 AM »

Had the cylinder head cover off and after replacing it I am getting a 'clack' kind of noise when turning the engine with the kick start. It seems to be the rear valve on the no 3 (from left looking forward) cylinder when it comes back to its highest position. I went with the manual in replacing the cover timing to 1-4 atdc and the notch on the cam shaft facing forward.
Any one got any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong?

hymodyne · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2008, 06:50:51 AM »

rocker and valve tip aren't meeting properly. remove valve cover and re assemble after pulling all rocker arms back with rubberbands so that they're not making contact when you tighten down the cover. check previous threads (they're many) on this procedure if this doesn't make sense.

hym

crazypj · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2008, 07:47:59 AM »

Did you loosen all the valve adjusters before replacing cover?
I always wind them out so they are level with bottom of rocker arm.
Theres a good reason for doing it, the edge of adjuster can (will) catch on tip of valve and bend it.
It then sticks in the guide and guide can crack (it probably will when you try and remove bent valve as its the top part that bends)
Hope its not this but it sounds very much like it
PJ

TwoTired · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2008, 09:55:58 AM »

Seems you made two mistakes.

1. you didn't state what bike the question applies to..

2. If it is a 550. You didn't read the manual about cover installation, and one (or more) of the adjusters bent valves has you torqued down the cam cover bolts.

GeoffT · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2008, 10:36:36 AM »

Thanks for getting back with the info guys. I'm afraid you are probably right on both counts TT. It is a 550. The cover is off at the moment and I'll try Hym's suggestion tomorrow to replace the cover with the help of rubber bands to hold te arms clear. If I still have the same problem then looks like you'll be right about the second mistake. In reading the manual I did notice the note that says stick your fingers into the tappet hole cap opening and lift the tappet adjusting screw. Perhaps the problem valve was not right in position.

Perhaps I should point out that the 'clack' noise did not happen every time it came back up. When I tried it this morning it would rise and fall several times without the 'clack' then maybe 'clack' 2 or 3 times in a row.

TwoTired · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2008, 10:49:23 AM »

I use PJ's described method for cam cover install. Haven't bent a valve yet.

Anyway, you should probably start looking for another head. As, that will be cheaper than repairing one with bent valves and damaged guides. IMO.

Sorry...

bryanj · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2008, 11:52:15 PM »

I agree with TT sounds like a bent and sticky valve, All 500/550 heads will fit no problem and there are lots out there + head comes off with engine still in frame---Lots of different opinions but i always recon if the head has been off pull the cylinders too and get a full top set

GeoffT · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2008, 06:28:52 AM »

I reckon I've bent at least two valves so as a complete and utter novice to this (Some may say a complete dunderheid

) I'm now on a steep learning curve.

Started looking for a new cylinder head so if any one has a serviceable one for a 500/550 give us a shout. Anyone know roughly what I should be paying for one?

Am just about to take the one I bent

off. Just reading the manual, thought it would say to drain the oil, I was gonna anyway but is it not necessary?

Brian, presume you mean full top set of gaskets etc.

bryanj · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2008, 08:17:44 AM »

I have seen heads, sometimes complete with cylinders, go on ebay for as little as $10 or up to $60 (plus shipping of course), just do all the searches e.g. cb500; cb 500; 500-4; 500 four etc and all the same with 550!! its amazing how just altering the wording brings up different parts.
get either a complete top set or a complete engine set The only gasket that is different 500 to 550 is the clutch cover gasket

GeoffT · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2008, 08:36:10 AM »

Cheers Bryan, I'll be looking hopefully for something from UK. Shipping is sometimes an issue to Orkney but we'll get somthing I'm sure.

754 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 15, 2008, 09:03:19 AM »

Sounds to me like you need a couple valves and maybe guides.. not that a spare head is a bad idea..

but valves and guides are quicker/easier to ship...

GeoffT · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15, 2008, 03:15:48 PM »

Quote from: 754 on February 15, 2008, 09:03:19 AM

Sounds to me like you need a couple valves and maybe guides.. not that a spare head is a bad idea..

but valves and guides are quicker/easier to ship...

How difficult/easy would they be to install? I was thinking that I may have a go at changing the damaged ones as well as change the cylinder head. If I only change the damaged ones that would certainly take me longer I think. if I do both and get it right I would still have a spare head which is no bad thing either.

bryanj · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2008, 09:36:30 PM »

Valves are easy to change but guides are a pain as they need reaming after fitting and its an odd size.

If the guides aint broke use a 4" grinder with cutting disc to remove the bent bit of valve stem then get new from Dave Siver---about £10 each as i remember

crazypj · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2008, 11:53:22 PM »

Quote from: GeoffT on February 15, 2008, 03:15:48 PM

Quote from: 754 on February 15, 2008, 09:03:19 AM
Sounds to me like you need a couple valves and maybe guides.. not that a spare head is a bad idea..

but valves and guides are quicker/easier to ship...

How difficult/easy would they be to install? I was thinking that I may have a go at changing the damaged ones as well as change the cylinder head. If I only change the damaged ones that would certainly take me longer I think. if I do both and get it right I would still have a spare head which is no bad thing either.

You need a piloted drift and heat head to around 350~375 deg F to remove old ones. Re-heat to same temp if there is a delay in fitting the new ones. Its a good idea to freeze the new ones but, make sure they are oiled and in a baggie (prevents condensation forming)
PJ

GeoffT · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2008, 11:09:06 AM »

Quote from: bryanj on February 22, 2008, 09:36:30 PM

Valves are easy to change but guides are a pain as they need reaming after fitting and its an odd size.

If the guides aint broke use a 4" grinder with cutting disc to remove the bent bit of valve stem then get new from Dave Siver---about £10 each as i remember

Bryan, Haven't got the head off yet as I've been at work all week. Got as far as getting the carbs out at the start of the week (They are going to be fun to put back in

). Hoping to get back to it at the start of the week and I'll post some pics of the head for advice on what's broke or not.

Thanks
Geoff

GeoffT · « **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2008, 11:16:54 AM »

Quote from: crazypj on February 22, 2008, 11:53:22 PM

Quote from: GeoffT on February 15, 2008, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: 754 on February 15, 2008, 09:03:19 AM
Sounds to me like you need a couple valves and maybe guides.. not that a spare head is a bad idea..

but valves and guides are quicker/easier to ship...

How difficult/easy would they be to install? I was thinking that I may have a go at changing the damaged ones as well as change the cylinder head. If I only change the damaged ones that would certainly take me longer I think. if I do both and get it right I would still have a spare head which is no bad thing either.
You need a piloted drift and heat head to around 350~375 deg F to remove old ones. Re-heat to same temp if there is a delay in fitting the new ones. Its a good idea to freeze the new ones but, make sure they are oiled and in a baggie (prevents condensation forming)
PJ

PJ, I'm not even sure what a piloted drift but that looks like a lot of fun. One of those jobs for when the other half is out I think.

Thanks for the info.
Geoff

bryanj · « **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2008, 11:20:40 AM »

take a bit of advice and if you need parts order 4 new carb to head rubbers (about £10 the set) which makes it way easier to refit--and if youre flush a new set of carb to airbox rubbers as well (£18 the set, pattern from DSS)

GeoffT · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2008, 11:48:56 AM »

Quote from: bryanj on February 23, 2008, 11:20:40 AM

take a bit of advice and if you need parts order 4 new carb to head rubbers (about £10 the set) which makes it way easier to refit--and if youre flush a new set of carb to airbox rubbers as well (£18 the set, pattern from DSS)

Presumably new carb rubbers will make the 'gentle persuasion' of re-fitting the carbs a little easier?

Jonesy · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2008, 12:42:15 PM »

Yes, new carb boots makes reassembly MUCH easier.

Here's the rubber band trick:

crazypj · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2008, 11:52:02 PM »

PJ, I'm not even sure what a piloted drift but that looks like a lot of fun. One of those jobs for when the other half is out I think.

Thanks for the info.
Geoff
[/quote]

Its a double diameter ( stepped) drift that fits into the valve guide to hold it steady. Outside diameter is slightly smaller than OD of guide.
PJ

GeoffT · « **Reply #20 on:** March 04, 2008, 01:55:25 AM »

With the help of our local very helpful Bike mechanic, managed to get all the valves out without damaging the guides. Unfortunately on closer inspection in his shop discovered only one inlet valve is good

so the hunt for a cylinder head is still the prefered option as it looks to be the cheapest. Looking at a couple on ebay, anyone got one kicking around with valves intact?

Jonesy · « **Reply #21 on:** March 04, 2008, 06:43:48 AM »

Try and get one off of a '77-'78 550. They had the bolted rocker shafts that weren't so prone to wear.

GeoffT · « **Reply #22 on:** March 05, 2008, 06:08:11 AM »

Quote from: Jonesy on March 04, 2008, 06:43:48 AM

Try and get one off of a '77-'78 550. They had the bolted rocker shafts that weren't so prone to wear.

Thanks Jonesy. Hopefully I'll find like it.

bryanj · « **Reply #23 on:** March 05, 2008, 06:30:36 AM »

He means the top cover with the rockers not the cylinder head with valves mate.

I know the exchange rate isnt good but Dave Silver sells high quality pattern valves

GeoffT · « **Reply #24 on:** March 05, 2008, 07:02:52 AM »

Quote from: bryanj on March 05, 2008, 06:30:36 AM

He means the top cover with the rockers not the cylinder head with valves mate.

I know the exchange rate isnt good but Dave Silver sells high quality pattern valves

Don't need an exchange rate for Orkney yet Bryan,

but if wee Alec Salmond gets his way we might in the future.

I've priced the valves at DS. £9.00 for inlet (4 needed) and £16 plus for exhaust (3 needed) plus vat. Thats why I'm thinking used head is the way to go but I'll go back to Dave Silver if I don't get one soon.

Cheers

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Author Topic: Cylinder head cover - what am I doing wrong?? (Read 3043 times)