Topic: For the conspiracy theorists here

[Uncle Ernie]

Make yourself comfortable- this is looong, but interesting.

[troppo]

G`day uncle ernie
theres actually three full length films in the loose change movies, my wife is a big conspiracy nut so i`ve seen em all
cheers
troppo

[Rocking-M]

Just how much proof do we need to take it out of the "theory" category?

To me it is clear that it was a conspiracy.

[dustyc]

Shall we make our predictions now as to the date of the next one that will allow GW to stay in the White House indefinitely?

[troppo]

yes well this is a sore spot with me, so i`ll just stand back in the corners and listen in

[inline4]

troppo, your intestinal fortitude inspires me, cause I was ready to jump all over Uncle Ernie's "theory."
 I do my best to not get involved in political issues, especially on motorcycle forums.
Damn, it's tough though!
Let them have their fun.

[DammitDan]

I actually liked this one better:

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

Pulls the theories put forth in Loose Change together much better and lays down a much more logical conclusion.

[troppo]

i actually got the movie for my wife but she hasnt watched it yet so cant give you a review

[toycollector10]

Bloody hell you lot. If it was a conspiracy someone would have squealed by now, eh?

Actually, my brother knows the guy who drove the truck that picked up the explosives/cruise missile/TNT and that guys' brother was in the demolition party that sneaked around the Twin Towers, and he knows a chap who did the wiring for the whole shebang....except, it's all bull#$%*!

Now, about those moon landing pictures and video. All fake!..I know for sure on this one. My sisters' best friend was on camera three and her husbands cousin was on lighting stand 5. Except they weren't. It's all crap, once again!

How the hell can thousands of people involved in all this sneaking around have been capped, popped, eliminated, silenced and generally been coerced into keeping their mouths shut?   

What a looney tune brigade!

[troppo]

What a looney tune brigade!

well if you actually bother to open your mind and watch the films, they bring up a lot of relevant questions that the authorities have been unwilling or unable to answer
blind faith is beter known in sheep, not people
cheers
troppo

[toycollector10]

troppo...a.k.a "gone troppo", or tropical, that is, having spent too much time in the sun and has had his or her brain fried.

I rest my case.......................

[troppo]

i`m not taking sides here, but now you stoop to personal insults

troppo...a.k.a "gone troppo", or tropical, that is, having spent too much time in the sun and has had his or her brain fried.

I rest my case.......................

[Terry in Australia]

Isn't it incredible that we had all those "firsts" on the one day? A plane being totally destroyed on impact with the Pentagon, with not one recognizable part in evidence, another plane crashes into a field with once again, no recognizable parts, and not one body part, or even one splash of blood?

We had a similar thread a couple of years ago and it got pretty heated, but after all that time, I still can't believe that this "attack" could have been pulled off by 19 suicidal middle eastern terrorists (of whom, 9 have apparently survived the plan crashes and have re-appeared) armed with box cutters.

Look at what they've done since, a bomb in a train in Spain, a bomb in a train in London, and a car bomb in Bali. By comparison, these are pretty crude, almost amateurish, in comparison? I wonder why?

Abe Lincoln said, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time". I guess GW was hoping that he could. 

[toycollector10]

Jesus, Terry,.....If you are doing 480 knots and you are 89 percent water, and you come to a sudden stop, a real sudden stop, mixed with avgas, what the hell are you then?  Just a red mist old son! Gone. Gone..........

[troppo]

but these are all collected facts, more than a couple recorded on film and backed up by experts who coincindently lost their jobs soon after the tapes were released
just watch the show, if its wrong fair enough it wont convince you, what do you have to be scared of?

[toycollector10]

No offence troppo, but all those conspiracy websites, half baked theories and "but where are the bodies" posts just don't cut it for me.

Are you and your American allies more afraid of your own government than the Jihadist, Fundamentalist, Nutbag, Islamic, Medieval Religomaniancs you fear so much.

I'm an aethiest. Sorry boys. But that is how I feel. If you think that your own democratic government is more of a threat to you than the Islamic Nutbags then you are really out to lunch!

[troppo]

we are all entitled to our own opinion mate, and theres no reason for bad vibes over that...
you think your way and i think mine, thats all there is too it...
but the good bit is we BOTH think CB SOHC lol

[Terry in Australia]

Jesus, Terry,.....If you are doing 480 knots and you are 89 percent water, and you come to a sudden stop, a real sudden stop, mixed with avgas, what the hell are you then?  Just a red mist old son! Gone. Gone..........

Well I can see that you're pretty fired up about this subject TC, and I don't want to argue with you, so instead I'll tell you a true story. In the early 1990's an Aussie Airforce pilot crashed a F18 into the side of a mountain in Queensland, in a really remote area.

The RAAF couldn't get their investigators in right away, and didn't even know if the pilot was alive or dead, so they asked the Army to send one of my mates from my special forces unit to parachute in, to provide security for the crash site, and radio communications back to the RAAF.

He camped there for a couple of days, and eventually the accident investigation team arrived and he was extracted. I asked him what it was like, and he said that the aircraft had broken up and burned on impact, but the pilot, (who was still strapped into the remains of the cockpit) was still pretty much intact.

Now that might just have been luck, but what I find extraordinary is that not one body part of 60 people could be found? In most other air crashes I've seen (I regularly watch "Air Crash Investigators") regardless of explosions, fire, etc, they always recover body parts, so why not from either aircraft on 9/11? Cheers, Terry.

[troppo]

OK then
to follow on from terry`s post, the collapse of the towers was blamed on the avgas fires...
sorry it has been scientifically proved that the steel in the building wouldnt even have been softened by the heat of a kero fire (and that all avgas is)
no need to believe me, do a little research of your own, thats the only way for you to learn, go look yourself
cheers
troppo

[troppo]

havent seen that one DG, will have to have a look...
i`ll give both sides a good listen before i make a decision, problem is my wife is a conspiracy nut so i have mainly heard their side lol
but you make a good point
cheers mate
troppo

[Uncle Ernie]

The part that got me scratching my head was the hole in the Pentagon- or lack thereof- and no engine parts found.

Toycollector brings up a very big point, though;  It really is a shame, but I think a LOT of people do not trust the federal government.  I fear the fabric of our socity is slowly getting ripped into 2 parts.  As a coujtry, it seems we're very polarised now.

This could easily develope into a discussion of candidates...
(I'll save that for a little later)

[edbikerii]

Conspiracy theories sell lots of books, movies, political candidates, etc.  Usually, the most sinister, craziest, most unlikely, most far-reaching conspiracies sell the best.  All that seems to be required is the possibility that "it could be true" despite the absence of any credible supporting evidence.

[Cvillechopper]

Jesus, Terry,.....If you are doing 480 knots and you are 89 percent water, and you come to a sudden stop, a real sudden stop, mixed with avgas, what the hell are you then?  Just a red mist old son! Gone. Gone..........

Except that it has happened many, many times before and there has been evidence left over.  It's not like this is the first plane crash and a simplistic statement like this should be taken as a logical conclusion.  There is PROOF that, in all previous cases, there was SOMETHING that survived the event. 

I'm not religious and believe, like you TC, that the overwhelming majority of the world's problems are caused by religious beliefs being used against others, most notably by governments (or those in power) to convince the masses that a certain horrible action is justified.  Personally, I am much more afraid of the current leaders in the US than I am of the people 1/2 a world away. 
Our government has killed more people on foreign soil in the name of "what is right" in the past several decades than the rest of the world combined.  You think that those we are fighting don't see us as Crazy Christians attempting to spread our beliefs???  It's almost never the religion that is to blame.  It is those that use it to justify deplorable actions that cause simple-minded people to associate the action with the religion.

[dusterdude]

i can appreciate the conspiracy aspects of all this,but think about it.the way people in this country cant keep their mouths shut,does anyone really think it wouldnt be public knowledge this  long after the fact.

[DammitDan]

You guys really ought to watch Zeitgeist...  Like I said, it puts forth some very logical conclusions.

For example, tower 7 in the WTC collapsed in the same day due to "fire", but even IF a steel building could collapse from fire alone, why would it just drop straight down like a controlled demolition?  They said the reason the towers dropped straight down was because of the airplane hits, but tower 7 wasn't hit by an airplane.

What of the testimony of dozens of people who all heard, who were ROCKED by an explosion in the basement of the WTC complex?  I suppose they were lying to get attention.

What about the fact that the plane that few into the Pentagon created a fire that was hot enough to vaporize hardened steel (eg. airplane engine and frame parts), and yet there were bodies recovered from the area that were still recognizable enough to be identified?

What about the fact that in just a year before, NORAD had performed a "flight intercept wargame," simulating time and success of interception of aircraft for escort.  The average time for 67 intercepts was around 10 minutes with a 100% success rate.  On September 11, over 80 minutes after initial warning, no fighters had even been scrambled.

What about the fact that when the President and Cheney went before the 911 Commission, they would only testify if these demands were met:

They appeared together.
They were not under oath.
No press or family members were allowed to attend.
No recording of any kind was allowed.
No transcript was allowed.

What about the fact that the FBI is refusing to release tapes of the plane hitting the Pentagon to the public?

This is what makes me EXTREMELY suspicious of it all.