Topic: Advice needed: selling to a friend

[Cvillechopper]

So I've just gotten the '76 750F project to fire up for the first time last night and am waiting on a few parts to be able to tune up her.  A really good friend is looking to get back into motorcycling (has been since I bought my new M50 last summer) and mentioned that he might be interested in the F when I'm done.
 
I've spent a little more time than I thought I would to get the bike road ready and the deal I made with my wife to be able to buy it was that I'd sell it for (at very least) what I've paid for the bike and parts plus my labor cost.  I am keeping track of my hours and using $20/hr rate. 

I was originally planning on leaving a few things on the bike that need to be worked on (like not replacing the starter button, acid-washing the tank, or replacing the dry-rotted tires) so I could sell it to someone that wanted to do their own work and keep the price down but wouldn't want my friend to have to do that.  He doesn't know how and would probably mess up a rather decent paint job trying.  Problem is I'll need another several hours to do the tank right (not to mention the cost of supplies).

In talking with him about it, he is very interested in learning how to work on bikes and I'd like to help him adopt the mechanic-machine bond that changes much more than just your perspective in the garage.  Of course, I'd be selling it to him at a friend price and would probably drop my labor to under $10/hr.  Doing that will absolutely hurt my arguement for buying my next project but will most likely create another SOHC fan and help my friend out.  I am a newlywed and the wife isn't so fond of me spending hours at a time in the garage for days on end but knows that I can't avoid tinkering or I go crazy. 

If I do the tank right I'll probably be in for between $600 in parts and over 50 hours labor total.

2 questions:
Would you think $1,400 is a fair price for a strong running, solid (minor surface pits only on some pieces) chrome, '76 750F with a freshly coated tank and new seat cover?

What would you pay and consider it a good deal?


Just trying to make sure I give my friend a good deal and don't loose my ability to buy the next project without a fight.


Here's a pic before I got the pipes on.

[gerhed]

I've had problems selling wheeled vehicles to friends.
They always come back for every little problem.
In fact , I gave a car to a friend of mine once and he even came back with a couple problems !
$1400 does sound like a fair price, though.

[Uncle Ernie]

What's more important; Selling the bike or having a friend? 
Rarely can you do both.

[medic09]

1.  That price sounds like it may be reasonable.  I have a friend who I've bought bikes from.  He actually was always happy to have me come back with questions.  Sometimes he would help me with minor repairs, or just coming up with a bolt or screw from his massive collection.  If you sell this to your buddy, you'd better plan on this bike being something in common between you.

2.  I caught the 'side point' that you are a newlywed.  Please allow this GHOF (and happily married) to put in a plug for your lovely bride.  The beginning of a marriage is the time to invest time and effort in establishing the foundations of kindness and consideration that will last you two for a lifetime.  Encourage your lovely wife to come join you in the garage with a cup of tea (or beer) and keep you company while you work.   Be VERY appreciative for any little thing she does that helps or supports your project.  Early on in a marriage is the time to build the partnership.  That will pay off with maybe a little less time or money on projects, but overall greater acceptance on her part.  My wife ended up getting her own bike, and even installing her own accessories.  And she doesn't mind when I tell her I'll be gone for an hour or two to help a buddy pull the engine on his SOHC.  (Greg, I'll be there at 18:00.) Who knew?   

Congrats on your marriage, btw!

[Uncle Ernie]

Well, since HE brought it up...
On the one hand, she knew you did this before marriage, right?
On the other hand, if you ignore her, she's going to realize you married another mother/maid. 

[Cvillechopper]

This guy and I have an understanding.  Nothing, no matter how it seems, has ill intent.  If it seems so, talk about it.  
My way of handling ANY deal is that if someone doesn't think they got a fair deal, bring it back in the same condition and I'll sell it to someone else.  If something broke that I had ANY way of knowing about, I'll fix it.  If I could tell that something was a possibility, I make sure to point it out to a potential buyer BEFORE making a deal.  If they take responsibility, that's the only time I'd say, your problem.

That being said, I know I can sell the bike to someone else and not risk some kind of upset, I'm just hoping there's a way to keep this bike where I can see it (and maybe buy it back once he's ready for a newer, larger ride).  Too good of a find to let it disappear.  


Thanks for the congrats Medic.  I've had her help me on some things but she's been sick since I got this project.  We spend as much time together as we can (she even comes to watch me play pool on league nights) and I help out around the house when she asks (sometimes on my own).  

To Ernie's point, she knew I couldn't stay out of the garage for long before we got married (we bought the house we did partly because of the room to build another detached garage for my bikes / various projects at some point).  It's just that she likes to spend time with me as well although I can't figure out why...  I've got a good thing going and don't want to screw it up

[mikedialect]

Lots of good thoughts here so far.

How close are you and this friend? And for how long? If he's a really good friend it sounds like you've got a decent deal there. It could mean an even closer bond by having a mate with a cb750 you can ride with. It could also mean your friend will feel spited if something goes wrong. all depends on your friend.

Per your wife - you're still making money on the deal, so you're still in the green, right?

[Cvillechopper]

Lots of good thoughts here so far.

How close are you and this friend? And for how long? If he's a really good friend it sounds like you've got a decent deal there. It could mean an even closer bond by having a mate with a cb750 you can ride with. It could also mean your friend will feel spited if something goes wrong. all depends on your friend.

Per your wife - you're still making money on the deal, so you're still in the green, right?

Very close for about 6 or 7 years.  I don't think he'd be upset and I plan on working on the bike with him as a way for us to spend more time hanging out so any problems with the bike will be addressed as I would my own, just him buying parts. 

My main concern is how to price something that you're selling to a friend.

Good point about the wife.  "I did make money on the project dear" could very well work especially since she knows how close I am with this friend.  Can't believe I didn't think about that.  She'd probably have no problem as long as I haven't done all this work for absolutely nothing ($$ wise). 

[Aaron J Williams]

Here's an idea you might not have thought of yet. How about helping your friend find his own SOHC project? You two could build it together and all the investment would be your friend's concern. You could sell your bike at a decent profit and you two could bond while fixing his bike. The only thing you would miss out on would be your labor working on your friend's bike and I'm sure you could barter that away with having him help you with something. Just a thought.

[UnCrash]

My main concern is how to price something that you're selling to a friend.

My suggestion would be to sell as you originally intended  ---->

I was originally planning on leaving a few things on the bike that need to be worked on

Offer your friend first dibs.

But for your friend offer to help him out with the additional work on the bike for a nominal fee, or in exchange for his help with other projects that you may want done (like shop organization, etc.) 

This way you get what you originally intended out of the deal plus give to your friend first option on the bike, and assistance getting it in top form with equal exchange on his side, either monetarily or in bartered labor (he pays for all parts and goes and gets them).

This will separate the business deal from the friendship in a couple ways, increase your friendship bond, and assure your new wife you are business savvy with your "side" job.

All the best-

Ben

[my78k]

I echo Medic's thoughts on marriage. I may not be a GHOF (yet) but mainly because my hair is falling out faster than it is turning grey (and I am only 33 for god's sake!). When I first started working on my bike I would talk my wife into bringing the lap top outside and she could surf or talk on MSN or whatever in the back ground (while we BOTH drank beer). Wasn't exactly what some may consider quality time but it worked for us...

As for the deal...well I think as long as you are honest about your intentions and warn about anything that could be wrong I don't see any issue. Don't over do it like you are bragging about a favour but explain what you have got into the bike in the way of parts and labour (by the way....labour is very subjective! What may have taken you 2 hours to fix may have taken a pro 30 minutes! or in my case days on end screwing things up and then fixing them again!)

I would also explain that you want first dibs should he decide to sell it again up front. Nothing will kill a friendship faster than him not realizing your intentions and HIM turning a profit when he decides to upgrade (or downgrade as some would see it!) to a newer bike.

Dennis

[754]

The bike is a good deal mainly because you really know the condition & are somewhat willing to back it up.

If you dont sell it to him,
He will pick up a POS & you will spend even more time, making less money helping him on that..

[DammitDan]

Here's an idea you might not have thought of yet. How about helping your friend find his own SOHC project? You two could build it together and all the investment would be your friend's concern. You could sell your bike at a decent profit and you two could bond while fixing his bike. The only thing you would miss out on would be your labor working on your friend's bike and I'm sure you could barter that away with having him help you with something. Just a thought.

I like this idea more than the others...  My brother in law Cory (who is experienced at working on/flipping bikes, and the one who got me started on bikes) sold a ratty XS750 to my other brother in law Jake (who is mechanically clueless, though he did say he wanted to learn) for $500.  Good deal, it was running when he sold it, but as soon as Jake got it home, it stopped running.  Had all sorts of problems, and Jake and Cory live about 3 hours from each other.  Well when Jake said he wanted to learn to work on bikes, what he REALLY meant was, "I want to ride a cheap bike and not have to worry about maintenance or repairs."  He called me constantly trying to get me to drive 45 minutes one-way to help with this and that, and he never seemed to understand my instructions over the phone.  Jake, as I found out, is easily frustrated when mechanical things don't work the way they're supposed to.

Eventually, after I pulled the carbs and rebuilt/cleaned them, cleaned out the gas tank for him, rebuilt the petcocks for him, I got the bike to run again (though the idle would race once it got warmed up, like an air leak).  Jake didn't want to invest any more money in it, and I didn't want to invest any more time in it, so it's been sitting behind their apartment for the last 8 months.

Jake and Cory didn't get along too well in the first place.  Now Jake and Cory like each other even less.

I'm helping a friend choose a bike to buy right now (which I think is vital so he doesn't pick up a POS), but I'm never gonna sell him one of my own.  It's really too much hassle, and I'd rather a friend be grateful by helping him rebuild someone else's bike than be spiteful by helping him rebuild one of my own.  Even if I trust in my work completely (the CB650 was running flawlessly when I finished with it) there could always be a catastrophic failure in a 30 year old bike that will inevitably be blamed on the person who sold it.

[Cvillechopper]

Thanks for the great feedback everyone.

Here's an idea you might not have thought of yet. How about helping your friend find his own SOHC project? You two could build it together and all the investment would be your friend's concern. You could sell your bike at a decent profit and you two could bond while fixing his bike. The only thing you would miss out on would be your labor working on your friend's bike and I'm sure you could barter that away with having him help you with something. Just a thought.

Great idea!  If my friend wasn't about 2 1/2 hours away I would absolutely go for this approach.  As is we oftern help each other out with stuff (like helping him move 3 times in as many years) so I'm not too worried about trading favors.  It all works out.

My78K, very good point about labor.  That's one of the reason's that I am using a rate that's less than 1/3 what a "real" mechanic would charge.  I'm also counting polishing/ cleaning time so I do have some wiggle room in the labor cost assessment in general.  My wife is helping remind me to put my time into my spreadsheet.  I keep track of the specific things I get done each day and how long it took (i.e. polished and reinstalled exhaust - 2 hours). 

Crashy, I like the idea about keeping the friend and business part seperate.  I might go through the details with him about what my doing certain things will mean in a cost vs.you-don't-have-to-do-it scenario and leave it up to him.  I've also started to put together (in my head) a list of things that would need to be done over the next few years of ownership like rebuilding the MCs, new cables, etc.  It adds up and I don't want whoever gets the bike to feel like they bought a money pit.

[Aaron J Williams]

I would also explain that you want first dibs should he decide to sell it again up front. Nothing will kill a friendship faster than him not realizing your intentions and HIM turning a profit when he decides to upgrade (or downgrade as some would see it!) to a newer bike.

I have had that happen to me a few times and you are right. Nothing p*sses me off more than a so called friend flipping a bike that I sold him at cost or at a loss and pocketing money I could have used to pay the house payment or build another bike. These days I get what I want for a bike and if my friend doesn't want it, someone else will. That may sound selfish and un-caring but I don't have a "real job" punching a clock for guaranteed money every week. I fix vehicles and build bikes to pay my bills and I can't afford to make a bad business decision with my house payment in the balance.

That said, I will gladly help my friends find projects or sell them one of mine and help them with repairs in exchange for labor helping me. Either way, selling stuff to friends is touchy at best. A wise old mechanic once told me " take the emotion out of the equation and make your decision based on the numbers." If you explain it well enough to your friend he will understand and respect your decision.

[754]

The friend pays you or someone else.

 Nothing a 3 page disclaimer attached to bill of sale wont cover..

well almost