Author Topic: Chosing the right chain, advice needed (Read 3390 times)

1981cb650c · « **on:** February 24, 2008, 04:40:25 PM »

Need to replace a chain on my 650. It takes a 530 x 104 and regular "o" ring would suffice. What manufacturers are recommended and who to stay away from? Never changed a chain before, any advice? Also, what are advantages, disadvantages to rivet and clip master links?

mattcb350f · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2008, 04:53:11 PM »

Not sure about manufacturers, but I remember a good thread about this was a hot topic a short while back.

I'll see if I can find it...

Anyway, only advise I can offer is be careful not to stab youself with the screwdriver when removing the clip on the master link. In fact, maybe find another tool altogether.

It hurts for a long time if you do.

Matt.

heffay · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2008, 05:09:24 PM »

i've been having good luck with RK chains... i recently bought a DID o-ring chain for the zx7r. haven't even put it on yet. looking forward to all the new parts for the season

mattcb350f · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2008, 05:18:08 PM »

there's a bit of info in the FAQ here:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=372.0

TwoTired · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2008, 05:54:21 PM »

I don't know 650's very well. But, they were derived from the 550. The stock 550 cannot accept an o ring chain because of the extra width. It will dig into the engine case and shaft seal cap. Modified sprockets have been reported to make the conversion, or go to 520 sprockets and oring chain.

Measure chain to case clearance on what you have. Note that the orings add about 1/8 inch to each side of the chain. And, the front sprocket is allowed to "wobble" a bit on the spline shaft. Maybe the 650 has a different arrangement?

Cheers,

Tim. · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2008, 06:02:34 PM »

I think if you go with a decent name brand, it really boils down to which one jumps off the page at you. I found www.bikebandit.com a good place to shop around for what will fit your bike, and a decent place to order from.

I ended up doing a 520 conversion on my Yamaha project and got an x-ring chrome chain for it. It's an EK 520MVX. I got it because I wanted a modern x/o-ring chain and I wanted something a little shiny for my project. And most importantly it was on sale from Bike Bandit. I paid $80 for it I think and they're $115 now.

mrblasty · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2008, 06:17:30 PM »

I've been running the EK Quadra X-Ring chain on my 750 for almost two years and have no complaints.

aptech77 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2008, 06:42:37 PM »

Look in to D.I.D X-Rings....

andy750 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2008, 07:42:07 PM »

Ive used Tsubaki o-rings for years - great chains - had the Sigma and the Omega. Now have a slightly cheaper RK o-ring from Dennis Kirk - also good.

cheers
Andy

Loudpipe · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2008, 08:29:35 PM »

Just bought a D.I.D. O-Ring chain for my 750 and did the 530 conversion, and I like it a lot. I've got a couple thousand miles on it now, and it hasn't even stretched enough for me to have to adjust it. Good quality chain...very quiet. I would definitely buy another one. I went for the rivet type and bought the RK chain joiner/cutter to put it together. It was really easy to do, worth the money for the tool (good quality as well), and it's nice to have the peace of mind knowing that there's no possibly way a clip could come undone, because there isn't one.

City Boy · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2008, 09:30:43 PM »

I would highly recomend the DID oring with the gold plating.Clean it and wax it and you will not be disapointed.I fit one to my 1100F,ride hard,and it has had 2 miniscule adjustments in 10000 km.Still is in as new condition.They have come a long way from what was installed on my K0.The DID 50 HDS that they used was good,but nothing like this new stuff.DID all the way!Rock On

eldar · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2008, 06:46:03 AM »

I think most all the name brands on chains are good. Pretty much comes down to the best price you can find. Master clips on many are just as good as a rivet joint, better actually. My RK that I got required a rivet tool to install it. That side plate is going NOWHERE! Yet I can still take it off and put it back on with out having to grind anything. Got mine from mawonline.com for around 70-75 clams.

kghost · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2008, 07:17:32 AM »

Quote from: eldar, Master of the K8 Thunder! on February 25, 2008, 06:46:03 AM

I think most all the name brands on chains are good. Pretty much comes down to the best price you can find. Master clips on many are just as good as a rivet joint, better actually. My RK that I got required a rivet tool to install it. That side plate is going NOWHERE! Yet I can still take it off and put it back on with out having to grind anything. Got mine from mawonline.com for around 70-75 clams.

Don't for a moment thing master links are as good as a rivited chain...the are not.

Master link is good for about 70% of the rated chain strength.

Rivet link about 90%

City Boy · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2008, 07:23:01 AM »

Eldar,I am with you on this one.Unfortunatly,clip links getting hard to find .at least for me .

eldar · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2008, 07:33:55 AM »

Considering that some racers use masters, I think they are good enough. Also if what is the difference. I HAD to use a rivet tool to get my side plate on. I had to use one to get it off and use it again to put it back on. NOT going anywhere, especially once the clip was added which was no picnic to put on either. Pretty sure that for a cb750, that is more than sufficient. If it was a busa, ok maybe different then.

heffay · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2008, 04:55:58 PM »

Quote from: kghost on February 25, 2008, 07:17:32 AM

Don't for a moment thing master links are as good as a rivited chain...the are not.

Master link is good for about 70% of the rated chain strength.

Rivet link about 90%

citation needed please

kghost · « **Reply #16 on:** February 26, 2008, 12:11:23 AM »

http://chain-guide.com/basics/1-1-1-structure-power-transmission-chain.html

By the Tsubakimoto Chain Co. in 1995 lists the actual decrease in strength as 20%.

I do not remember if the 70% figure was from Regina or DID....was one of the two.

I'll see if I can dig it out somewhere.

mrblasty · « **Reply #17 on:** February 26, 2008, 12:21:58 AM »

EK makes what they call a screw type master link, not cheap but a lot cheaper than a rivet tool. the final result is a riveted chain, on my 750 100 links give me enough chain play with the axle removed to pull the rear wheel without breaking the chain.

hymodyne · « **Reply #18 on:** February 26, 2008, 02:56:33 AM »

so... a chain with a master is not as safe or strong as a riveted one? My new chain threw the master off on me last summer right after I installed it, but that was because of some clearance issues and my having installed the master link facing the wrong way...since I addressed that, no problems, although the new rear sprocket I bought with the chain is wearing quickly. I think that is because I bought a JC whitney product instead of a OEM.

hym

eldar · « **Reply #19 on:** February 26, 2008, 06:07:24 AM »

K, that was 13 years ago. I know it does not seem like it was that long but it is. As I said, my master had to be installed with a rivet tool and the clip is just extra. I doubt the link itself is any weaker as the same material is used and the only diff is that the pins do not mushroom. I fail to see how in this day and age that there would be a 20% drop in strength. Maybe 13 years ago, sure. After all, chains in the 70s were not as strong as in the 80s and so on.

kghost · « **Reply #20 on:** February 26, 2008, 04:47:54 PM »

While the matterials, construction, and design of chains has increased in the last 13 years....it hasn't been a quantum leap.

The physics behind chain operation and forces hasn't changed.

To give an example:

I looked up the EK530ZVX2 chain.

A very heavy duty chain to say the least at 10,560 tensile strength.

With a clip type master link its rated at 9,300 tensile strength.(per EK)

Have a look at the chart on the DID website: http://www.didchain.com/install.htm

It shows the comparative strengths of the clip vs rivet links...showing the press fit clip type at about 80% and the slip fit clip type at 60%

Snapshot of DID graph page below.

If you choose to disregard the advice listed in the Tsubakimoto guide or the recommendations of chain manufacturers....I probably can do no more to convince you of the comparative strength differences....its the internet believe what you like.

heffay · « **Reply #21 on:** February 26, 2008, 04:49:44 PM »

i asked and we received... thanks KG!

kghost · « **Reply #22 on:** February 26, 2008, 04:57:12 PM »

Chains these days are super strong. Most you buy are way overbuilt for a 750.

I don't think anyones gonna throw a chain. Even with a clip type masterlink (properly installed of course).

Just wanted ya'll to be aware there is a difference.

heffay · « **Reply #23 on:** February 26, 2008, 05:34:58 PM »

most of the chains i've purchased actually came with a clip type AND rivet type master.

i've never used a rivet type simply based on pure ease of installation and removal and will probably stick w/ the clip type.

i have had one problem w/ the clip type though... the clip came off during a 2000 mile trip to vegas and back without my noticing.
i looked down during a fuel stop some 200 miles from home and noticed the missing part. i immediately parked the bike, rode 2up w/ the girlfriend back home and came back to get the bike when the shops opened back up a couple of days later. the chain stayed together even w/out the clip, most likely due to how much of a #$%* it was to install! i think i may have buggered it a bit trying to install and that's why it came off... who knows? i'm still alive, i have all my digits and i'm gonna do my best to keep it that way... at least until the parents are gone

yes, i know its not hard to install a clip style master but, i didn't have the proper tool... just a chain breaker.
putting a chain back together (at least when trying to compress o-rings in the chain) w/ a breaker can be problematic if you don't remove the breaker pin OR you don't get the hollow part of the breaker pin over the chain pin in the exact right place. for those of you who've used the breaker method, you know what i'm getting at. for those of you that don't, just use the right tool for the job.

funny thing is... i made a list of things to take on the trip. a spare master link was on the list. i ran out of time running around before the trip and didn't pick one up... DOH

eldar · « **Reply #24 on:** February 26, 2008, 08:27:47 PM »

I dont think I COULD lose the master on mine. Even the outside plate was a COMPLETE pain to put on. A cb will NEVER break a new chain unless it gets weakened from some outside effect. Even putting out 100hp. A lot of sportbikes put out more and use a 520 chain.

City Boy · « **Reply #25 on:** February 26, 2008, 08:47:44 PM »

Kudos eldar;end of story!

kghost · « **Reply #26 on:** March 01, 2008, 10:10:31 PM »

I think i have the DID chain in that action...believe I got it from Dennis Kirk.

Wack them to length by taking a wizz wheel on an air grinder to the rivet heads where you need to shorten it.

measure twice cut once.

heffay · « **Reply #27 on:** March 02, 2008, 09:24:16 AM »

chain breaker sold by motion pro.

just got the DID professional o-ring 520 chain yesterday. dad purchased for me from his duc shop. less than 50 bucks all said and done

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Author Topic: Chosing the right chain, advice needed (Read 3390 times)

1981cb650c

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