Topic: Welders Thread

[new2novas]

mig and aluminum is worthless, mig and stainless is not a problem, just get a roll of stainless for it....

tig is the best IMO, but also the hardest to learn and become proficient at....nevermind that fitment must be much better, etc etc...get a mig to start with and i agree 100% with rhinoracers 2 points

[manjisann]

Thanks guys, I know this was a loaded question as it's really entirely opinion based. But I respect the "opinions" of this great forums more than online reviews or a sales person, hence why I asked.

if you get a 110 definetly get gas and if your gonna get a 220 get a bigger one than shown, you should be spending around 1500 or so for a good welder (if new)....

I understand the bigger the better, and I wish I had 1500 to drop on a nice one, but sadly I don't. I honestly don't have any specific project in mind, I just know in the past I've wished I had one (and the knowledge to use it). When I mentioned trailer frames, I'm thinking of smaller ones. As I wouldn't be doing these often (if ever) having to make more than one pass to do so isn't a big issue for me.

it takes ALOT of practice to get aluminum right though.

I have read this, and short of busting a fin off my engine, I am not really sure when I would need to weld aluminum. Course if I learn, then I could build me an airplane  , but seriously, for motorcycles which is the primary reason for me to get one, when would I be welding aluminum?

Does anyone have a Hobart? I've read they are good machines and made by the same company that makes Miller, just wondering if anyone has any experience with one of these babies.

Thanks everyone for your experience and advice, now I just have to decide what I want to do.

Brandon

[Sporkfly]

My grandfather could weld aluminum with oxy acet, so you can weld it with anything, it's just a matter of how hard (or nearly impossible) it's going to be.

That said, yep, get the biggest you can. Nothing wrong with a Hobart, I've used a Miller and a Hobart and they're both good machines even if they are older. Also, I'm on the same mission as you. Wish I were wired for 220 that's for damn sure...

[new2novas]

oxy is easier to weld aluminum with than a mig

[johnny_from_bel]

I'd say go to night school.

I took night school lessons for 3 years. I am now a certified welder and can weld almost anything.

Stick rod is ok for anything but aluminium (thin sheets with a spectal adapter).
A mig will weld anything given the right feed and gas.
CO2 is ok for steel, Ar is for aluminium. The gas is expencive.

If you have money to spare get a TIG.

Be aware you need a DC adaptor to weld aluminium
The current flow from metal to electrode breaks the oxidation.

Cheap MIG and TIG usualy don't have that.

[new2novas]

I'd say go to night school.

I took night school lessons for 3 years. I am now a certified welder and can weld almost anything.

Stick rod is ok for anything but aluminium (thin sheets with a spectal adapter).
A mig will weld anything given the right feed and gas.
CO2 is ok for steel, Ar is for aluminium. The gas is expencive.

If you have money to spare get a TIG.

Be aware you need a DC adaptor to weld aluminium
The current flow from metal to electrode breaks the oxidation.

Cheap MIG and TIG usualy don't have that.

i believe you meant AC but thats ok

[manjisann]

For the money, this one seems like it would be a good deal, has anyone ever used it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220420945088

I know everyone is saying bigger is better, and I understand it will give me more versatility, but I am mainly gonna be using it for motorcycle and automotive, but I like the idea of the flexibility of being able to weld thicker metals if I ever need to. Am I gonna be able to weld thinner metals, like a gas tank (not aluminum)? Or do I need one with a lower amperage rating? Also I see them say like 208V-230V, is that just standard 220V or am I gonna run into some trouble?

I'd say go to night school.

I took night school lessons for 3 years. I am now a certified welder and can weld almost anything.

I am going to college right now, just out for good behavior (ie summer) and one of the classes I am looking to take is a metal sculpting class ( I am pretty sure it teaches welding, otherwise I'm not gonna be happy).

If you have money to spare get a TIG.

I've read good and bad about TIG's. I know they can make smaller welds and are supposed to be really good on aluminum, but the price for a decent entry level one is out of my range. I've also read that the learning curve is a bit steeper, and I'm not entirely sure when I will be taking that welding class. And like I said, not really sure when I will be needing to weld aluminum, at least not in the near future.

My grandfather could weld aluminum with oxy acet, so you can weld it with anything, it's just a matter of how hard (or nearly impossible) it's going to be.

I understand the old air planes were welded this way.

oxy is easier to weld aluminum with than a mig

Sweet, I have an oxy set, maybe I'll build me a nice P51 Mustang 

[johnny_from_bel]

I know everyone is saying bigger is better, and I understand it will give me more versatility, but I am mainly gonna be using it for motorcycle and automotive, but I like the idea of the flexibility of being able to weld thicker metals if I ever need to. Am I gonna be able to weld thinner metals, like a gas tank (not aluminum)? Or do I need one with a lower amperage rating? Also I see them say like 208V-230V, is that just standard 220V or am I gonna run into some trouble?

Gas tanks can be welded with acetylene equipment and an iron rod. I would not bother to get a mig for that.

With this

http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8338&frostProductName=Body%20Welding%20Attachment&catID=33&frostCat=Welding&frostSubCat=&subCatID=

You can weld sheet metal with a stick rod welder. BTW I use stick rod for everything but aluminium.

[MJL]

Aluminum and mig

yes, it can be done, and yes, it can look good. However, you must have a mig machine that has AC capability.

It is highly recommended that you use a spool gun. that is a "torch" or "stinger" that has a small roll of wire in the handle. Aluminum wire is soft and does not feed well through the liner.

You need a different gas.

The aluminum you are welded needs to be as clean as possible.  Clean it with a STAINLESS wire brush. Never use a regular steel brush.

Aluminum does not glow like steel and that makes it hard to see the puddle as you weld, as well as the puddle freezes faster.

Aluminum is porous which makes it possible to run into some just plain crappy material you can't weld no matter how you prep it.


Back to the welder...


Be forewarned that it will get expensive with the things you have to buy up front, and the things you will buy later.

As for what welder to buy, any of the big 3 (Miller, Lincoln, Hobart) will be a good choice and last. Personally I would not go with a 110. IMHO they just don't have enough power to get a good weld.

When you do plan for a welder, keep in mind that a mig welder will also require a tank of c25, a regulator if the welder did not come with it, and extra tips and nozzles. Unrelated to the welder itself, but related to welding...

:copy paste a post of mine from another forum...:

What I use in my "shop" is an old Miller buzz box converted to stick/tig, an angle grinder that grinds, sands, cuts, and wire wheels, a pedestal grinder that I rarely use, a drill press and a cordless drill. That's about it for power tools. In the hand tools department I have a small set of sockets, wrenches, screwdrivers, and pliers. I have a steel table made from old bedframes that I fab on. The top is 1/4 steel so I can weld on it and write on it if I need. I don't have to put my ground clamp on the part, just the table, which is nice. I also have a selection of vise-grips, c-clamps, angle magnets, a chipping hammer, sharpies, straight edges, tape measures, a square, level, soapstone, calculator, blah blah blah. Then there is the PPE (personal protection equipment) such as face shields, ear plugs, welding gloves/jacket/hood, and work boots. Plus you need to keep your area clean, so you have a couple brooms and dustpans, and trash cans. Sometimes it gets lonely working by myself, so I brought out a stereo and nice speakers, but then I got tired of radio and brought out a tv, vcr, dvd player, Now I have a small (6 inch) lathe and haven't even started on buying tooling for that yet...

Holy crap I'm not trying to discourage you from learning, but be warned that you will end up buying more and more tools to do more and more things, and you'll find more and more things that you can do


Please, if you do want to learn to weld, take a class at a community college or adult education, or find an experienced welder to guide you. I have seen some scary stuff that people think is just fine.

[MJL]

I know everyone is saying bigger is better, and I understand it will give me more versatility, but I am mainly gonna be using it for motorcycle and automotive, but I like the idea of the flexibility of being able to weld thicker metals if I ever need to. Am I gonna be able to weld thinner metals, like a gas tank (not aluminum)? Or do I need one with a lower amperage rating? Also I see them say like 208V-230V, is that just standard 220V or am I gonna run into some trouble?

Yeah, plain 220.
 

If you have money to spare get a TIG.

I've read good and bad about TIG's. I know they can make smaller welds and are supposed to be really good on aluminum, but the price for a decent entry level one is out of my range. I've also read that the learning curve is a bit steeper, and I'm not entirely sure when I will be taking that welding class. And like I said, not really sure when I will be needing to weld aluminum, at least not in the near future.



[/quote]If you can weld with O/A you can tig. Same process, different source of heat.

If you want a really cheap tig,  find a used AC/DC stick welder and watch ebay for a tig torch, flow meter, and bottle. If you want to tig aluminum you'll need a high frequency box.  My "cheap" tig cost $650, and that was buying everything local. With ebay, you could cut that in half.

[fuzzybutt]

i learned to mig aluminum working at Metalheads shop.

[kghost]

I could write a huge paragraph here......

But I'm too lazy.

Yes you can weld aluminium with Oxy acet. But you'll need flux and its hell for heat distortion.

Yeah...I know...because I play with airplanes too.

Your choices are broken down as thus.

Mig Vs Tig.

DC VS AC/DC.

Mig is great for general fabrication...that wire feed makes welding alot a snap.

TIG is great for small jobs and great for stick welding. Yeah thats right almost any TIG will function as a stick welder. TIG has better penetration, cleaner welds, and more control then MIG or OXY. Theres less distortion burn thru and all sorts of stuff with TIG Vs the other two.

Then theres AC/DC.....DC won't weld Aluminium.

You're always better off with a welder thats going to work for everything ...otherwise you'll buy another welder.

You can buy a straight DC MIG...but one day you'll wish you had a TIG.

You can buy a 110 V but some day you'll wish for a 220.

Buy right the first time.

[manjisann]

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=6594587&lpid=1&cat=226

Opinions on this setup? What price would you offer?

Brandon

[HB-1fan]

If you bought that welder new, and then paid to add the extra stuff like the cart, flow meter, tank and spare parts. Then you would probably have that much in it.
 That welder, without the extra stuff at Home Depot is around $500. bucks. I bought one just like it 12 yrs ago when I was not happy with my 110v miller and it still works perfectly and it has welded alot of thick metal. If you can get that welder for 6 or 7 hundred(make sure it is an "owner" tank)it is an ok deal' The tank is worth a $100 plus or worthless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everything Kghost said, is pretty much on the money. In the course of 30 working years, I've used about every type of welder and there isn't much I have not welded. Stick with the industrial brands and you can't go wrong.

Rick

[B.O.X.N.I.F.E.]

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=6594587&lpid=1&cat=226

Opinions on this setup? What price would you offer?

Brandon

If it's a small tank that seems kind of high to me. There are so many used machines around that you can usually dig up a pretty good deal. Also, I'd stop by Airgas and see if you qualify to rent a tank. Unless you'll be welding all the time renting a tank may be more economical.

[manjisann]

Unless you'll be welding all the time renting a tank may be more economical.

I called Airgas, and renting was not appealing to me and buying was even more expensive. The tank is a CO2 tank, but airgas said I could do a swap as it is a customer owned tank, and it might even be just straight across. The facemask is autodarkening, and is included along with all the other stuff. I could get the welder for 600ish from eBay and that's shipped, basic autodarkening facemask from HF is 50.00, the cart is 50.00 from hf and the tank would be $278 to buy from airgas ( ) I called the guy and he said he would think about going as low as $700, though I'm fine if he only does $750.  I'm super excited!! I realize it isn't the deal of the century, but I don't think it's terrible either.

Brandon

[themotoworks]

a good starter welder would be the miller 135, it's a great unit for the price and works on 110.  it's got a switching power supply, as opposed to big iron, and tends to be more efficient, so you'll get more wattage at the gun without tripping your breaker.  it may not handle welding 1/2" plate in one pass, but for trailers etc which are probably junior channel, you'll be more than good

[Ricky_Racer]

All good info here... Also, if you're planning for the future, the Hobart Handler 210 is an excellent 220V welder that is set up to take a spool gun with no mods or addons. It can be bought new for a little less than a grand...

Now if I can just sell one of my kidneys...    RR

[MikeB]

For the money, this one seems like it would be a good deal, has anyone ever used it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220420945088

I know everyone is saying bigger is better, and I understand it will give me more versatility, but I am mainly gonna be using it for motorcycle and automotive, but I like the idea of the flexibility of being able to weld thicker metals if I ever need to. Am I gonna be able to weld thinner metals, like a gas tank (not aluminum)? Or do I need one with a lower amperage rating? Also I see them say like 208V-230V, is that just standard 220V or am I gonna run into some trouble?

I don't know about welders that's why I'm reading this, lot of good info guys thanks
but 208v-230v is usually 3 phase power, commercial applications not homes
120-208V is a Y xfmr
120-230V is a Delta xfmr
both are 3 phase power
110-220 is single phase and is in most homes

better make sure its set up for single phase voltage and not 3 phase voltage

[Caaveman82]

I can tell you that TIG is much easier to weld aluminum with. I do it all day long on casted wheels, which is hard, a lot of impurities in those casted wheels. I would take a TIG all day long over a MIG, unless I was doing sheet metal. Then I would say MIG all the way for that nice clean "roll of dimes" look. However, with pratice, you can get that with a TIG, just prepare for some sloppy welds!

[johnny_from_bel]

I can tell you that TIG is much easier to weld aluminum with. I do it all day long on casted wheels, which is hard, a lot of impurities in those casted wheels. I would take a TIG all day long over a MIG, unless I was doing sheet metal. Then I would say MIG all the way for that nice clean "roll of dimes" look. However, with pratice, you can get that with a TIG, just prepare for some sloppy welds!

Tig is the best. But expensive a workable Tig installation will easely set you back a few 100 euros.