Topic: "Maxi Dwell" breaker points.. and other old stuff

[kayaker43]

Does anyone remember the aftermarket breaker points that were available for the SOHC's? They used an aluminum backing plate, points from a small block chevy I think, and electrical grade condensers.

They had increased dwell time for better coil saturation due to a different rocker ratio. They also handled way more current with more contact area, had wider rubbing blocks and a built in neon timing light. I'm still running mine today, they don't ever seem to wear or change timing. You can just flip the micro toggle and time them with the built in light by the side of the road.

I realize pointless is nice too, but these appeal to my sense of cheapness and mechanical simplicity. I can see them work, I can understand them, and I can fix them anywhere. They're out of business now, but should be easy to replicate, and about 1/100 the cost of a Dyna system.

Remember the old K-mart universal car replacement coils too? they cost around $6 and if you could find a place to mount them, none of the aftermarket stuff could match their output back then?

While were driving down memory lane, does anyone remember the "Superspark" CDI units? They made a high pitched squeal and only used the points for low voltage switching, so there was no points arcing and longer life. They put out a wicked spark with stock coils and if it failed you could pull out a jumper and bypass it back to stock.

Isn't reminiscing fun 

[754]

I ran a Maxi- Dwell for a long time..

 never had any trouble, no limit to the rpms either, in fact with stock coils it even works fine. Need points just pick up Delco Corvette hi tension ones..timing light is a nice touch as well.

I like the fact that it requires less voltage to start than an electronic and you can fix it yourself on the road. I may have to replace the solid state condensers some year, they are over 20 yrs old..

[kayaker43]

Might be time to bring that one back as a low cost alternative to electronic ignitions? It sure gave you a lot of bang for the buck.

Its surprising how people choose expensive gadgety things first?

[eldar]

If you think about it though, most people went electronic as timing only needs to be set once and never again unless you remove the unit. Also most new elec units are very reliable. People decided they would rather wrench on other things than have to constantly mess with timing.

[754]

I dont know ANYONE with a Honda SOHC that has to constantly mess with their timing.

As everyone here knows, you can not always get parts same day for these. If you ever travel on your bike and are over 500 miles from home, and you have no credit card or cellphone.. what do you do when your electronic packs it in??

Not all points are created equal, the Honda type are not the best I have seen.

Some rider actually enjoy maintaining their machines..

[bryanj]

Those Maxi dwell turn up on ebay fairly regularly

[eldar]

What do I do huh. Well lets see, what do you do when one of your points breaks? I doubt you ALWAYS carry spares and your not always guaranteed to find the points you need. It is part of the risk you take, kinda like when driving an old car around. Plus, there is NO WAY you will be 500 miles from home with no cash or credit card, if so then you are an idiot.

I agree, some like to work on their bikes but not the timing. Also since you must have missed it, MANY here have had to constantly mess with points until they went to electronic. Some people here have had their electronics on their rides for 20 years. I would say that is just as reliable as ANY point. Plus, ever 1000 - 1500 miles you have to re-adjust and clean your points. 

But if I EVER have ANY question about my elec unit, my points plate installs in about 5 minutes, so you know what, I CAN TAKE IT WITH.  So I can A: use my elec unit at 120 clams OR B: I can use points and replace them every year at least once if not twice depending on the miles I put on and spend that 120 bucks in 6 years or less.

I will go with my elec unit, especially once I get around to 836ing my engine.

You want to stick with your points, that is A-OK. They work fine for normal use, I used them till last year but I fail to see why you should look down on those of use who use the dynas or what ever system.

[754]

So where did i put down electronic ignitions? I simply explained why I run points and that I found an acceptable sustitute for the stock ones.

I am not trying to convert everyone here just present to other side of the coin.. the thread was about point ignitions.. you came in telling everyone electronic is better.


Ever ridden any distance on a Honda 4 ??

[Gordon]

If you ever travel on your bike and are over 500 miles from home, and you have no credit card or cellphone.. what do you do when your electronic packs it in??

Well, you would NEVER catch me 500 miles from home on my bike without cash, a credit card, and a cell phone, so it's difficult to answer that.  

But the same question could be asked pertaining to any part on your bike that could possibly break.  I can't bring spares for everything that might go wrong, so I just bring what I can and hope my previous maintenance and ability to fix things on the road will get me there and back, and the dyna-s unit on my 750 is way down at the bottom of my list of things I'm worried about breaking.  

That being said, I also would not be too concerned about the stock ignition on my 550 crapping out on the road.  My reasons for going with the dyna on the 750 had nothing to do with reliability.  

[eldar]

That is because in almost all circumstances, they are better. if they were not, do you think people like sparty and mreick would be using them? I mean I am pretty sure guys like that have much more experience than EITHER of us. Samcr also uses an elec unit as does bobbyr and many of us. Maybe even half the riders here.

If you ever travel on your bike and are over 500 miles from home, and you have no credit card or cellphone.. what do you do when your electronic packs it in??

That sounds like all elec units do is conk out. I stated that the same thing can happen with points and has happened to people.

Fact is points MAY be more reliable but elec units deliver better performance.

When I put on my dyna s, I saw IMMEDIATE improvement, when I reported that, many other chimed in with the same experience. I did not read ONE instance where some said putting elec on DECREASED their performance. Among the improvements were better warm up times, better mileage, and smoother running in all rpms.

One other point is that if the dyna s were so bad, word would get around after 2 decades+.

You want to run points, more power to you. Like I said, I ran them before too but will nto again unless my elec unit actually does die which I doubt will happen. Just remember that you will do more work on them and points cams are not easy to get.

either way, does it really matter? There are certain facts and certain myths.

And why does everyone ask about distance on a bike? Does it matter? If a part is going to die, it will do so on a short or long trip.

[754]

there are times in your life where you can pick up the phone and someone can drive to pick you up & there are times where they cannot.

If you ravel any distance  by bike you will (hopefully) someday get far enough from home to understand that.


I dont really care so much what most run, instead I use what works for me.. but then I am not seeking approval by my peers or worrying about fitting in with the crowd..

part of the reason I am not worrying about getting a modern bike..

 so maybe we can get back to the topic...

[eldar]

That would be nice if you can refrain from being an a$$ about my opinion. You must admit you did start it first. I merely stated my opinion from what I have heard from others. case closed though.

I would not rather see points come back but I would rather have simpler bikes that did not require a computer to diagnose. However, new bikes today are every bit as reliable as older bikes, maybe even more so. Too many of them are cruiser or rocket style though and that is my main beef.

[MRieck]

 I took a spare set of points with me when I rode my Hayabusa from Massachusetts to Mid Ohio.

[eldar]

How did you get points for that?! Did you assemble to plate yourself?

[Gregorymoto]

Hay i would love to see a pic of the after market Chevy points, That sound s cool.
I might have the parts around to make one, God i love odd ball stuff.

As for as The other stuff. i  stoped packing points on trips after i built a crash guard for my Bike. The only time i have ever had OEM cb750 point go out on me was when i smashed them, or in one case someone side swiped me.

What has happend when your point go out on the road?
Is it the condensors, or the contact? i have herd that the non OEM springs are junk and can bounce causing bad timing.
Agg back to work

[Gregorymoto]

Ooooo that is way cool

[754]

The red things are solid stsate condensors.

The switch for the timing light is just past 3 o-clock. I think you could put this on a stock plate. The timing light is a bulb just behind the timing hole  on the backside of the plate.

The points are Chevy SB, I think Corvette style, higher spring tension. The originals are riveted in, I did change a set..remove rivets and use screws. I think the point have the pivots futher away from the rubbing block meaning less wear on the pivot due to shorter arc of travel.

[MRieck]

How did you get points for that?! Did you assemble to plate yourself?

I was kidding. I haven't touched points in years.

[kayaker43]

Lets put aside Philisophical differences and look at some facts. These are a quantum leap better than stock points. so don't use those for a comparison.
I've checked my timing a lot because its fun with the built in light but never had to adjust them in 6000 miles so far.

These are worth a look for several reasons, they do extend coil dwell time (Maxi Dwell) and do increase the performance of the stock coils. They last many times longer than stock points because the contact is vented and much bigger. The condensers are much higher quality and I'm pretty sure the rubbing block is bigger. The springs are stiffer and never bounce. They can handle more current and would probably be happy with 3 ohm coils??

I would say points and electronic are both reliable but don't kid yourself even Dynas do fail I've read about several on this forum. When a failure does happen on the road, I would rather have points every auto parts store carries and a built in timing light.

No offense to anyone but Maxi dwell is just another option to Dyna that is much cheaper, works about as well and is more friendly for tinkerers. Did I mention much cheaper! Sometimes you don't want to spend $300 to tune up your $500 daily driver!

Whatever they sold for was inflated because they were novel. I'll bet you could mount these same points on your stock backing plate with a few new holes.

I'm just saying they were elegent in their simplicity and haven't been improved on much if at all,.. you have to love something that works well and is CHEAP!

[754]

SBC should work but the corvette # has a stiffer spring. You have to trim a corner of the base off on one or both.

The timing procedure is this, set gap, then use light to set timing for 1:4, then lock plate. Now and this part I did not like, the other set has no subplate so to time it you adjust gap.

But it works good and that mainly what I was after. It did occur to me that with a wild cam, higher compression that I may have  an inadequate spark, espescially as at one point I switched back to stock ancient coils. I do not run a tach but did for a while.. and could reach any rpm I had the guts to hold it to at least 11,500 or better.

 I just could not find anything that bothered me about the stup, and yes I do think they require less attention than stock points.

[kayaker43]

I still have the instructions but they are 1200 miles away for a few months. I remember hearing small block chevy so they were very generic. The capacitors are just high grade electrical parts from a catalog. I'll look tomorrow to see if I can find any markings on the caps or identifying numbers on the points to see if they are the corvette points? I hate to go with any stiffer springs than are needed. I redlined my roadracer at 11K but know it saw 12K more than once with no problems.

The timing bulb is just a neon light from radio shack held in place with a dab of silicone and controlled by a micro toggle switch to select between sides

Anyone could rig up the timing light, even with stock points. That's worth doing by itself. I imagine the better capacitors is also a worth while upgrade.

[Gregorymoto]

Are the 2 extra wires for the timing light?

[Gregorymoto]

I have some points for a 57 Corvette 283 Turbo Fire motor, they look similar but they don't have the red condensers.

[kayaker43]

My condensers are yellow and mounted on the backing plate, they don't come with the points.

I'm pretty sure they're ordinary electrical capacitors, just need to find the type and value?

[754]

The condensers are solid state, hence the small size, they would never have come with those points..it is paert of the package they were selling. They are not all the same color.

My Maxi-Dwell is probablyat least 27 years old after I first used it.. they would be fairly easy to make but I would try to add adjustment for timing 2nd set of points.