Author Topic: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project  (Read 4858 times)

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2008, 12:21:21 AM »
Hey Lloyd, how do I do the "Electrolysis" thing? I wouldn't mind trying it out on this tank while I'm waiting for the replacement to arrive? Cheers, Terry. ;D

Sure Terry,

It's pretty simple but slow.
Get yourself some Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda  (sodium carbonate).  Mix this in enough water to fill the tank at a rate of about a tablespoon per gallon.  The carbon makes the water conductive and more soda will increase the current.  Remember this, if you need to get some higher current action on the battery charger you select.

Make yourself some sacrificial electrodes to stick into the tank opening.  I used old wire coat hangers (wire brush off any paint to bare metal) folded back on itself so they would fit through the filler opening.  But, if you have stainless steel that would be better from a how long will it last point of view.  You will want as much surface area for the electrode ans you can possibly get into the tank without it touching any part of the tank.  I used an old rattle can plastic top and punched a hole in it to insert the wire through.  Then bent the coat hanger wire so it would suspend in the water inside the tank, without touching the sides.

Connect a battery charger; the negative lead goes to the tank metal, the positive lead goes to the electrode. Polarity is important as it determines where the rust migrates from and to.

If your charger is adjustable, set for about 10 AMPs.  My charger was only 6 Amp capable ( I bought it in 1963!).  It worked, but slowly and I had to increase the Soda density to keep the current up, since it doesn't put out a very high voltage.

As the electrode collects rust, the current will go down (Nice to have an ammeter on the charger) and the lower the current the slower the removal action.  So, after a few hours, disconnect the charger, withdraw the electrode and clean it off.  I used a wire wheel.  Re-insert the electrode and resume the derusting. Repeat until until the tank is once again bare steel.  If your electrode falls apart during cleaning, replace it.  I used about 10-15 coat hangers over a couple of weeks.

As the tank gets cleaner, the current will go down, to.  Don't change your charger current setting to increase the current beyond the initial setting.

A couple of warnings.
The electrolysis action also liberates both Oxygen and Hydrogen from the water, these are the bubbles you'll see inside the tank during the process.  Make sure this is vented outside, unless you want your very own Hindenburg demonstration in your garage.
Also, the process lowers the water (electrolyte) levels inside the tank, and the space then collects these gases.  A spark from your charger clamps, will set this off. Bang!  It sent my 1/8 brick I was using to hold the plastic cap/electrode positioner straight into the air about 6 feet and bulged the tank, too!

That's about it.  What's nice about this process, is that it doesn't remove ANY steel, that an acid etch would.  Just the rust.

When it's over, and the solution drained (the solution looks nasty but will still work fine) I used a couple alcohol flushes to extract any remaining water from the tank, (to prevent flash rusting again), did a blow dry using a small fan, and didn't get any more rust.

That's as far as I got with my test tank, as all the paint blisters started weeping when the rust was removed and the remaining metal was, and still is, quite thin.  I'm going to try and braze them up one day, if I can't find a good tank for a reasonable cost.

Feel free to ask questions if I didn't explain it clearly.

Cheers,


Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2008, 02:33:49 AM »
Thanks Lloyd, that's excellent mate, I'll give it a go, I'm kicking myself now because I've only got a crappy little battery charger and I could have bought a really good variable voltage/amperage battery charger at a swap meet a couple of weeks ago for 60 bucks and I was too lousy! (Plus I didn't want to carry it back to the car I'd parked a mile away) Oh well, it's my birthday next week, so I might have to buy myself a "present", ha ha! Cheers, Terry.;D
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2008, 02:37:30 AM »
Hey Lloyd, how do I do the "Electrolysis" thing? I wouldn't mind trying it out on this tank while I'm waiting for the replacement to arrive? Cheers, Terry. ;D

   I think it goes something like "fill tank with gasoline, stick one finger in the tank while using the free hand to stab a fork in a open light socket". Or was it "fill tank with butane..........."? I can never get that part straight. Anyway, give it a shot Terry and let me know how it goes ;) ;D ;D

Well I don't know if I'll go that far Sean, but I'm thinking of running my oxy/acetylene torch over the tank to soften up the epoxy so I can get it out, so if you hear a big "BANG!" and spot a mushroom cloud rising from my side of the pond, it's probably just me, so don't wait up for your shiny new panels, ha ha! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Geeto67

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2008, 04:14:19 AM »
about the electrolysis process - if you use zinc plated hardware it will transfer the zinc coating to the inside of the tank.
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Offline CrisPDuk

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2008, 04:44:00 AM »
My freshly stripped K0 tank has just headed of to a local electroplating company to have it's insides Nickel plated  ;D
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Offline jtb

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2008, 05:30:48 AM »
Put me in for an F tank, too, if they suddenly surface.
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Offline Tom in Newcastle......Ontario

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2008, 07:11:46 AM »
Electrolysis setup............how to pics

http://www.altelco.net/~jacil/clay/motorcycle/KElecSetup.html
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2008, 08:31:29 AM »
Electrolysis setup............how to pics

http://www.altelco.net/~jacil/clay/motorcycle/KElecSetup.html

Thanks tjjkc,
That's the link I was trying to find last night but couldn't, for some reason. It's pretty much the basis for what I did to mine.

Something of note:  The washing soda solution must be in contact with the rust for the removal process to work.
The F tank has a formed well under the tank door that protrudes into the tank's cavity, putting the filler rim below the top level of the tank's curved sides.  I expect this area didn't really get clean of rust.  If I am able to patch all the holes that now exist in the tank, I know that area is going to need more attention.  This is the thinnest area of metal in the tank I now have.  I probably will have to immerse the tank in a larger vat to address that...   
... and then fix more holes. ::)

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline joeb

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2008, 05:55:18 PM »
Sean try this site , it got me my side covers just be precise in what you ask for. http://www.findmypart.com/

Offline scondon

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2008, 06:53:55 PM »
Sean try this site , it got me my side covers just be precise in what you ask for. http://www.findmypart.com/

    One more line in the water. Thanks Joe :)
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Offline bwaller

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2008, 07:37:36 PM »
Checked with a guy I know at a used parts place up here and no go on a tank but have one more feeler out.

ohiosupersport

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2008, 07:49:34 PM »
I have one in the garage...i will check it out and try to get some pics if it is decent. possibly later tonight.
 Kurt (regular lurker/ rare poster)

fuzzybutt

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2008, 08:42:26 PM »
i have a good, dent free tank from a 75 750f. i havent decided yet if i'm going to redo the 750f or part it out. it isnt complete or decent by any means. but the tank is super nice, dent free too. i'll let you knoe in the next week or so scondon if i decide to part with it. theres a good petcock too.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2008, 02:43:59 AM »
Electrolysis setup............how to pics

http://www.altelco.net/~jacil/clay/motorcycle/KElecSetup.html

Thanks tjjkc,
That's the link I was trying to find last night but couldn't, for some reason. It's pretty much the basis for what I did to mine.

Something of note:  The washing soda solution must be in contact with the rust for the removal process to work.
The F tank has a formed well under the tank door that protrudes into the tank's cavity, putting the filler rim below the top level of the tank's curved sides.  I expect this area didn't really get clean of rust.  If I am able to patch all the holes that now exist in the tank, I know that area is going to need more attention.  This is the thinnest area of metal in the tank I now have.  I probably will have to immerse the tank in a larger vat to address that...   
... and then fix more holes. ::)

Cheers,

Thanks Lloyd, with this tank, I've cut the original rectangular filler section out as I'm installing (or at least, was) a "race" filler from a Yamaha TZR, so that "well" no longer exists.

I'll take another look at it once I burn off the epoxy and do the electrolysis thing, and if the holes aren't too big I might be able to repair it, but if it looks like a tea strainer, it'll be consigned to the trash can.

It must be an "F" thing, apart from the beautiful Texan F3 tank that Tim (KGhost) sent me a few years ago, I haven't seen a good, rust free F tank for many years. Cheers, Terry. ;D   
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

troppo

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2008, 02:57:29 AM »

It must be an "F" thing, apart from the beautiful Texan F3 tank that Tim (KGhost) sent me a few years ago, I haven't seen a good, rust free F tank for many years. Cheers, Terry. ;D   

i must be bloody lucky then, my "spare tank was almost perfect..... one small dint and after i stripped the paint off and sandblasted  around all the seams it looks great, and from what i can see on the inside its nice and clean in there too...
dont know about the tank on the bike now though, good thing its coming off soon, just waiting on sidecovers from mikeydialect before i paint and then it`ll all go burgandy pearl, very similar to the original colour that was on the tank (a lucky leftover at work lol)
cheers
troppo

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2008, 03:03:32 AM »
Sounds good Trop, when I get back home I'll post a pic of my F2 I painted in Candy Red (close to the K4 color) it looks amazing, it's just a pity the tank that I bought on Ebay and had shipped all the way from New York rusted out in the first year, add paint and new decals, and that tank cost me over 500 bucks! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

troppo

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2008, 03:21:25 AM »
didnt realise things were so bad for tanks mate, pity theres no aftermarket ones, with the state of the one on the bike now i may need one soon for the next bike, i like the shape but want to put knee dints in it and would prefer to do that to an old tank than a new (or good condition) one
cheers
troppo

ohiosupersport

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2008, 12:58:49 PM »
Checked my tank. Looks pretty good inside. only spots here and there of rust. Outside seams look good. no blistering. Tried to get a good pic of the inside, but the matches kept going out.... ;)  See attached pics. Tank was repainted before I got it. There is a reflection on the top of the tank in the one pic, not a dent. I started to strip the tank, then found a good one with original paint. much easier to removehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/24437477@N02/2314543953/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24437477@N02/2314543833/
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 01:01:35 PM by ohiosupersport »

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2008, 02:04:44 PM »
That one looks good mate, can you shine a torch into the bottom and just check that out? It seems that most of the "F" tanks rust out around the front (steering head end) of the tanks, so if that looks clear of rust, (and particularly sealant) then that tank would be great! Whattya reckon Sean? Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

ohiosupersport

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2008, 04:11:26 AM »
I will check it out later today....

Just had a chance to look....Seems to have a small amount of surface rust along the seam on the left (clutch) side. Does not look very heavy, more like the spots in other parts. Double checked the seams, no bubbling, etc.

and I will need the petcock, so it would not have one.  If you want to take this off board, my email is:  kurt@getzendiner.com
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 04:39:04 AM by ohiosupersport »

Offline scondon

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2008, 08:42:38 PM »
 Heck of a work week for me and am just getting back to the forums. Thanks to everyone with tanks who posted to this thread. I'll be sending out PM's in the morning and see if I can't get one to ya soon, Terry :)

   That tank does look pretty good, ohiosupersport. Are ya sure ya wanna let Terry near that thing with a hammer ;) :D
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ohiosupersport

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2008, 04:51:52 AM »
Sure, hammer away.... :D

Offline scondon

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2008, 09:44:58 AM »
 A hearty thanks to ohiosupersport for sending a nice tank that will work great. It is always a pleasure to receive parts from members of this forum as it has been my experience that "good" means "good", unlike other sources for used parts where good can mean just about anything.


   here it comes, Terry :)

« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 06:50:11 PM by scondon »
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Offline Geeto67

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2008, 12:23:24 PM »
I was just looking at that F tank I pulled out of the shed a couple weeks back thinking I got the tank, no idea where to send the pics.......
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Offline squirley

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Re: CB750F tank needed to finish the Sumbich project
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2008, 01:40:42 PM »
Not to barge in again like i did previously in the thread, but I am still in search of a tank, so if scandon no longer needs one, I am interested. Thanks