Author Topic: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?  (Read 7816 times)

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Offline greenjeans

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GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« on: March 05, 2008, 05:28:33 AM »
Sorry, this is a bit wordy,
Well, last night I tried to solve the coil problem on my '72 CB750k - plug wires are old, cracking and starting arc where there not supposed to.  Not getting a good spark. Cranking it in a dark shop was enlightening....  So, I cut off some of the wire in attempt to put the boots back on and the wire was gooey.  Not a good sign.  Keep going up the wire about 4 inches before it seemed good.  Now they are too short so I call all over town and finally find some old style copper core plug wires.  At this point I figured I try to replace the "unreplaceable" wires from the coils - they are molded in.   I cut them down to about 1" out from the coils, then stripped a half inch of the insulation off the remaining wire stubs.  Then I just started wiggling the stub of wire coming out the coils...eventually, the insulation came out and I was left with a decent looking strand of wires coming out of the coils.   
   This is where I stopped.   I couldn't really think of an ingenious way to attach the new plug wires besides soldering them....and then taking a scrap piece of the plug insulating wire and slitting it lengthwise and then putting it over the soldered joint.  Then I figured I'd put a few layers of heat-shrink insulation over that...  Think that will work ?     I heard of epoxy as a way to attach them as well.

As a back up plan, I ordered some decent looking GL1000 coils and wires off ebay last night.  I've read that they have the potential to throw a bigger fatter spark anyway...kind of a old-school cheap upgrade.   

Anybody used GL1000 coils ?
Yep, I'm the kid that figured out how to put things back together...eventually.

Offline andy750

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2008, 05:42:24 AM »
Yes they should work. These ones have the removable wires:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-Honda-GL1100-GL-1100-Goldwing-Coils-GL1000-GL1200_W0QQitemZ170198661399QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170198661399

They also have the yellow (and blue?) and black/white wire coming out the back to hook up to your harness.

These will also work with some mods....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ignition-coils-cb750-cb650-cb900-cb1000-cb1100-gl1000_W0QQitemZ230228017630QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230228017630


CB900 and CB750 (1979-) will also work.

cheers
Andy
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Online SteveD CB500F

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2008, 05:56:35 AM »
You could try this from the FAQs
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Offline greenjeans

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2008, 07:19:05 AM »
Steve - what link is that supposed to pull up ?   I keep keeping a pic of a sweet hardtail.
Yep, I'm the kid that figured out how to put things back together...eventually.

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2008, 07:24:33 AM »
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Offline hcritz

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2008, 08:32:59 AM »
Hey Greenjeans...
I wrote up a procedure for changing out the wires on the stock coil.
That was a few years ago, but I think it's still in the FAQ section.
Mine are still working great...so it seems to be a good fix.
It's not really very hard to do and doesn't take too much time.

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2008, 08:38:30 AM »
I was looking for the write-up but couldn't find it. There was one with pictures wasn't there?

If we can dig it out I'll put it in the FAQs.
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Offline hcritz

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2008, 08:44:21 AM »
Hey Steve...
I "THINK" I may still have the picts and text on my computer at home.
If you can't find it here...let me know and I can send them tonight.

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2008, 08:49:28 AM »
Take a look will you.

Your original thread seems to have gone walkies...

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17022.msg175605#msg175605

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Offline greenjeans

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2008, 08:50:43 AM »
Well, I tried splicing new wires on last night.  Thought I'd let the epoxy dry overnight.
I ordered the GL1000 coils as a back-up plan....seemed cheap and easy enough.
I'll see how they fire this evening.

Great stuff on the ignition/points etc.  Thanks for that.  I'm going to dial in my new points and condensers this evening as well.

Hopefully now I'll get that fat blue spark I've always dreamed of. ;)
Yep, I'm the kid that figured out how to put things back together...eventually.

Offline hcritz

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2008, 08:53:32 AM »
OK Steve...
I'll look when I get home tonight...I'm pretty sure at least the picts are still there.

Offline mystic_1

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2008, 09:53:23 AM »
Try this, guys:

http://www.xs11.com/tips/repair/repair24.shtml


This article describes cutting into the coil's body in order to extract the old plug wire, then installing new plug wiring into the body of the coil itself.  No wire splicing involved.

Article is specific to Yamaha XS1100s but to my eye it looks like this should work on Honda CB coils, too.

Disclaimer:  I've never tried this.  I just sucked it up and bought new OEM coils lol

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Offline greenjeans

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2008, 10:54:40 AM »
Yep, I bet it would work....almost makes me want to cut into mind and find out what's in there.  Not completely satisfied with my fix.  I wasn't sure if you could get rid of that plastic molding around the coils without destroying them.  Would anyone be afraid of it arcing ?   Anybody know if epoxy or silicone sealant is a good insulator...I'm guessing that the silicon would be, but what about epoxy ?
Yep, I'm the kid that figured out how to put things back together...eventually.

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2008, 10:58:44 AM »
The thread that I'm trying to find involved using a dremel to cut open the coils, solder on new leads and epoxy back up.

Is that what you had in mind?
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2008, 11:13:56 AM »
I bet I still have my old crap coils lying around somewhere.  If I can turn them up I'll slice them open to see what's there.


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Offline hcritz

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2008, 11:45:40 AM »
Yep...that's basically what I did with mine...Use a dremel tool to cut the coils open...replace the wire and then re-fill the area with epoxy. I've put about 7,000 miles on mine since and have been in the rain and the car wash...so far...so good.
Tonight I'll see if I still have the article and pictures.
Almost positive I have the picts at least.
I'll try posting them here...or send them to Steve for the FAQ section.

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2008, 12:01:51 PM »
and have been in the rain and the car wash...

Tell us about this.

Did you wear decent waterproofs?
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Offline hcritz

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2008, 12:11:24 PM »
Yeah...but damn that hot wax is TOUGH!

Offline greenjeans

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2008, 12:24:22 PM »
Well.....
I'll cut mine open this evening.  I'll take pics and report back with results.
Can't be any worse than it was, & I have a back-up plan on the way.
Yep, I'm the kid that figured out how to put things back together...eventually.

Offline hcritz

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2008, 12:32:03 PM »
Greenjeans...you just need to cut the area where the wires go in...if you will send me an E-mail address...I'll forward you the picts and the text if I still have it.
Use an NON filled epoxy...Clear type...not JB weld...it has ground aluminum in it I think...might cause a problem. The picts will make it very clear how to do the job...
I think to do both coils took just a bit over an Hour.

Offline hcritz

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2008, 12:36:21 PM »
Hey GreenJeans...
I found the original article here...not sure the picts work...but you can try...
I think the actually artical is on the second page of the thread.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=10429.0

Offline mystic_1

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2008, 01:16:58 PM »
Hey GreenJeans...
I found the original article here...not sure the picts work...but you can try...
I think the actually artical is on the second page of the thread.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=10429.0


Looks good - here's the relevant pic from the article hcritz references:



basically the same technique as the article I linked, which shows a few variations on where cuts can be made. 






HTH

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Offline kghost

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2008, 01:30:13 PM »
Far as I can tell my GL1000 coils are exactly the same as most 750 coils...cept the wires are longer.....

Is there a winding difference?
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Offline andy750

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2008, 01:48:39 PM »
Mystic,

""Do nothing which is of no use."
- Musashi Moyomoto"

Do you mean Musashi Miyamoto here, probably the greatest samurai ever to have lived...or do you mean someone else?  ;) ::)

cheers
Andy

Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline mystic_1

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2008, 02:02:10 PM »
Mystic,

""Do nothing which is of no use."
- Musashi Moyomoto"

Do you mean Musashi Miyamoto here, probably the greatest samurai ever to have lived...or do you mean someone else?  ;) ::)

cheers
Andy




Heh, what I meant there is "don't work on your forum profile late at night".

thanks!

-m
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Offline CB750F2

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2008, 02:50:18 PM »
Greenjeans, I have recently fitted a set of Gl1000 coils to my CB750 and they seem to work well. I have also fitted one of Hondaman's solid state ignition modules. The GL1000 coils are three ohm coils with a single 3 ohm ballast resistor in series with both coils. I have not made any modifications to bypass the resistor when cranking the motor. The bike starts easily when the battery is charged up but if the battery becomes discharged and struggles to turn the motor the motor will not fire up. If this becomes a problem I will fit a relay which will energise when I push the starter button and bypass the ballast resistor during the cranking period. Pat
Regards
Pat from Australia

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2008, 04:44:14 PM »
Far as I can tell my GL1000 coils are exactly the same as most 750 coils...cept the wires are longer.....

Is there a winding difference?

According to Mike Nixon aka "oldfart", gl 1000 coils were an upgrade
used back in the 70's. I run them, without the resistors, and they don't burn points. The technical reasons for them being better were published somewhere, but for the life of me, I can't remember where. I did e mail Mr. nixon, and he told me not to use the resistors, just use 'em as is. For whatever reason, and you might ask him, the gl coils give a hotter spark. They will work on the 750 and 500/550
using the model specific bracket. He makes mention of this mod in one of the articles on his sight "the motorcycle project"


edit: forgot to mention, mine are of the '75-'79 model years gl.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 04:50:35 PM by jsaab2748 »

Offline mystic_1

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2008, 04:57:43 PM »
Sounds like the GL coils have fewer turns in the primary circuit, meaning less resistance and therefore more current draw, with a higher primary-to-seconday ratio than the 750 coils.  Fatter spark, but more load on the charging system.


I've been considering this upgrade myself, if I do I'll definately relay the circuit, since I'm planning to relay the horn and headlight anyway.  The 750's tool tray looks to me like a nice potential relay center.

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Offline kghost

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2008, 05:08:01 PM »
Had to jog my memory banks....by looking it up on Randals site.... ::) ;D

http://www.randakks.com/TechTips.htm#38

First, the ballast resistor is the long, white ceramic thing attached to the left side of the coil assembly. Basic function: the ballast resistor is a resistor contained in the primary ignition circuit wiring that lowers voltage after the engine is started to reduce wear on ignition components. Less well understood is the fact that ballast resistors provide appropriate compensation within a circuit for external demands placed on that circuit. One example of this would be to compensate for temperature changes.

The coils, ballast resistor, points and dual condenser of a GL1000 are optimized for proper ignition function by coils that are designed to deliver full secondary circuit energy pulses to the spark plugs with primary input circuit voltage of approx. 7-9 Volts ... not the 12 Volts that you might expect.

This is so you will have "full" power to the coils during start-up...if the coils were "expecting" 12 volts they would be disappointed! The nominal 12 Volt battery voltage is reduced considerably during start-up by the heavy effort to energize the starter and spin the engine...hence the reduction to around 7V as the "normal" state of affairs for these coils (at idle). Sometimes, you might hear geezers like me refer to GL1000 coils as "6 volt" coils. Don't get hung up on the exact values - the relative values are what's important here.

Once the engine fires, the alternator (stator actually) comes online and battery voltage is regulated to approximately 14.5 Volts at normal cruise rpms (voltage is less at lower rpms). Without intervention, the coils which are optimized for 7-9 V would now be seeing primary input voltage of 14+ volts. Clearly, this would cause problems of overheating and reduced life for ignition components. This is where the ballast resistor enters the picture.

Through clever wiring, the power to the coils is always routed through the ballast resistor unless the starter is spinning - in which case the ballast is by-passed. The resistance value of the ballast resistor is calibrated to deliver the 7V or so expected by the coils at idle. During starting, the ballast is by-passed and full available voltage is routed to the coils. The beauty of this design is that you get quick starts AND long life for the components. I won't go into the theory, but the ballast cleverly compensates somewhat for the ignition requirements required by changes in temperature and engine rpm.



By Randall Washington..
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Offline hcritz

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2008, 07:40:54 AM »
Hello MR Greenjeans...
Did you find the info you need on the wire replacement?


Offline greenjeans

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2008, 08:06:32 AM »
I did find it....(and much much more)  thanks.  I should get the back up coils in hopefully today or tomorrow.

According to Mike Nixon aka "oldfart", gl 1000 coils were an upgrade
used back in the 70's. I run them, without the resistors, and they don't burn points. The technical reasons for them being better were published somewhere, but for the life of me, I can't remember where. I did e mail Mr. nixon, and he told me not to use the resistors, just use 'em as is. For whatever reason, and you might ask him, the gl coils give a hotter spark. They will work on the 750 and 500/550

Newbie question....what are the resistors ?   
Yep, I'm the kid that figured out how to put things back together...eventually.

Offline hcritz

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2008, 08:57:59 AM »
Good Deal.
I'm running one of Honda Man's electronic units on mine...that sure makes a big difference too...much nicer idle and low speed...and really seems to wake the bike up in the upper RPMS too.

Offline greenjeans

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2008, 09:03:14 AM »
Hondaman's ignition units... ?  How much & how easy was it to install ?
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Offline hcritz

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2008, 09:09:03 AM »
I think they are $60...and VERY easy to install...it uses the original points and if for some reason it fails..you just hook the two points wires back up and go on as normal...
Several threads on here about it. It's a great addition...

Offline goon 1492

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2008, 09:18:38 AM »
Yeah...but damn that hot wax is TOUGH!

This is fun in a truck too with the windows down just hang on if tha car wash has the blowers at the end to dry off.
P.S. the blowers are good to blow EVERYTHING that is not tied down in the truck out the windows, easy way to clean.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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We are spirits going thru a human experience....

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2008, 09:29:17 AM »
Man you guys I just finished reading the whole thread and this is impressive info, especially for everyone who is watching their iginition for failure/future mods. or just soaking up knowlege like a sponge (me :P)...
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We are spirits going thru a human experience....

Offline hcritz

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Re: GL 1000 coils on CB 750 - anybody tried it ?
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2008, 11:13:32 AM »
Hey Goon...
yeah...if I had hair...it would make a great blow dryer! <G>