Topic: New Timing Question

[dpen]

The timing on my K7 is out.
The adjusting plate is turned all the way to the front & the "F" mark is still to the rear of the timing index.
This is with a strobe.
Done statically, 1&4 are out (with no adjustment left) but 2&3 can be set correctly using the two screws on that plate.
I haven't had much to do with the ignition on this bike so I was wondering if there's a quick fix before I start filing the slots on the backing plate (works on BSAs), only kidding........maybe.
All other tuning adjustments are spot on with the dwell at 23 for both sets of points.

[frostypuck]

Each time I've had this problem, I've bought a new plate/points/condensers and the problem went away. Of course, I have also used a dremel to open up the slots to allow for more movement, but only temporarily until I have the $60 for a new points assembly.
Chris in Boston

[dpen]

Thanks Chris
I've extended slots before on other bikes so it may be the go.
$60 for the parts??? Mate, you're lucky to be where you are, I'd have to mortage my house to get a new plate in Oz.
Just found a thing in the FAQ regarding changing the points gap-will try that tomorrow.

[kghost]

I bought 3 - points, plate, condenser, the other day. Cost me 15 bucks each. Yes, I bought all they had. I could send you a used plate if it would help. You can then swap over your parts.

[nomadwarmachine]

Reduce the dwell to 23-24 degrees or thereabouts and you will have more adjustment in your timing plate.  I had the same problem -- reduced the dwell in both (increased gap) and was able to get the timing set dead-on.

[dpen]

Dwell is spot on at 23 for both sets so I'll ignore dwell & go for playing with the gap when I get home from work.
If it's no go I may take you up on your offer kghost.
Dave

[TwoTired]

I've posted this before in another thread, somewhere.  Maybe it will help?  This assumes the rubbing block on the points isn't worn down too much.

If you remove the points from the plates and loosen all three large plate mounting screws, you will find that that large plate will move some distance radially on the mount posts machined into the engine case.  This movement is why you run out of adjustment range, as some plates are different diameters, and some engines have been machined to a different tollerance limit.  The spring pressures of the points pushes the plate in the opposite direction against the mount post. This puts both points in a position relative to where adjustment range is limited.

What to do.  While you have the points removed from the plate (thus all spring tension) and all three mount screws lossened, find the largest feeler gauge that will insert in the gap between mount post and large breaker plate. This is also the point gap error and directly impacts timing.  Reinstall the 1-4 points, set the gap and the 1-4 static time with the feeler gauge still inserted in the lower right mount post to breaker plate gap.  I sacrificed a feeler blade and cut one in an L shape to fit under the mount screw washer, so it wouldn't fall out during plate rotation. This way I can change the 1-4 timing while the bike is running (dynamic timing) or not (static timing).  In my experience, this brought the adjustment slot for both 1-4 and 2-3 points into an acceptable adjustment range.

How did I figure this out?  Well, the bike showed me this problem.  One day, while trying to dynamically time the engine, I had all three mountplate screws loosend while the engine was running.  It was then I could see the whole friggin plate moving around in the engine posts.  Dwell readings were all over the place, too, depending on which mount screw I tightened first or when and where the engine crankshaft was positioned when a mount screw was tighened.  Putting the plate in a stable position eliminated all the variability of time and dwell.  Then I found that if selected the right post to remove the excessive plate movement, the adjustment ranges of the slots were more than adequate.  So, I made a new tool, and, added it's use during the adjustment procedure.
Life is good.
Cheers,

[Buffo]

You could end all this bullsh!t and never have to worry about it again if you would just buy the Dyna s and a couple of 3 Ohm coils.

$60.00 to replace an outdated ignition system!!!  NEVER!

Don

[dpen]

Thank you one & all, "The Rat" is now screaming.
Now I know why I'm a diesel mechanic - compression ignition is so easy.
Anyway, I used several bits of advice.
Radial movement in breaker plate was fixed by the butcherfication & insertion of a 7 thou feeler gauge.
Timing was still not right so I attacked the points.
Get the "f" mark for each set & set them up to open with a test light.
Checked with a strobe, not quite right so redo.
It all came good on the third try.
Specs for those who are interested:
points 1&4 are 8 thou and 25 dwell
         2&3 are 10 thou and 24 dwell
The bike now purrs, no spitting during warmup (no choke fitted) and still has a good cackle & backfire on the over run (heh heh). Took her for a (very) fast ride through the mountains, stopped for a smoke & she sat there happily idling at 1100 (no cam chain noise over 1050).

[Philly550K1]

when i removed my points plate to inspect the spark advancer, i noticed a wee bit of "slop" as i rotated the advancer forward and back.  it uses a locating peg/dowel, but i still end up being able to choose a smidge of overall advance/retard when i tighten the center nut, which i gather buys me a corresponding smidge on the adjusting slots on the plate.

don't grind it, unwind it.  or something... 

and i second lloyd: "This assumes the rubbing block on the points isn't worn down too much."

[dpen]

Yeah, had no guidelines as to wear on the rubbing blocks but, judging by the points themselves, they'd be worn.
When I pulled them off I thought of getting the angle grinder out to clean them up.
New points next week, use my patented "Two Tired spacer", set her up the way I did today & she'll be right.
Thanks for the offer of a plate kghost but I picked one up off ebay last night (supposed to be ok but, we'll see).
Yes, I'd like to put a Dyna in but, as I'm retiring in a couple of years most of my coin is going on the house (& the mortgage) for the next year or so.
Plus, I happen to be the sort of bloke who gets a buzz out of making something rooted work (that must be why I'm in my trade - God knows, I don't like trucks).