Topic: MotoGP 2008

[tsflstb]

Michelin qualifiers are working well and the new guys are really going for it.  I'm pretty impressed with Lorenzo and Toseland - they made it look too easy.  I'd like to see Edwards get off to a good start this year.  I imagine Stoner will blow by the Yamahas the first time down the long front straight.  I hope they can keep him honest and put on a good show.  It's good to see the new faces up there.

[CrisPDuk]

Well apart from business as usual in the Ducati camp*, and JT putting in a storming performance most of my predictions turned out to be complete bollox, again

Roll on Jerez, and the real start to the championship



Obviously it's still all down to the bike, and not Stoner, which is why the other three finished so high up the order

[malcolmgb]

I would like to get back to when the performance was more down to the rider, sadly we are heading in the F1 direction.

At least I can watch the development of the new 125 riders, Scott Redding was fantastic, Bradley Smith really showed them in qualifying but sadly the Polaris Team jinx appears to be alive and well and Danny Webb showed more promise.

At the Daytona 200 Chaz Davies had a good result, made up for him not getting the Ducati Moto GP ride.

[Rocking-M]

So Stoner starts off where he left off last year.  Ducks can Fly. 

[tsflstb]

You hear all that noise from Japan?  It's a bunch of engineers and machinists frantically trying to get those pneumatic valve engines out the door.  How long has the desmo valvetrain been around? 

Anyway, I don't think a few more RPM or horsepower is the magic bullet to stop Stoner.  His brain is hard wired to the chassis, tires, engine, and electronics on that bike.  He's got absolute trust in how the bike is going to respond.  He did a lot of crashing his first year on the Suzuki - seems there are certain bike that just aren't suited for certain riders.  Like somebody said I think Hayden is a good example of this too.  Rossi seemed able to ride around anything setup-wise until recently.  Last year Stoner showed us all Rossi was in fact human when he couldn't just will the Yamaha to the front.

Now that Stoner has the field covered by 10 seconds, he could at least take some lessons from Rossi to make it entertaining.  I loved how he'd ride Giberneau or Biaggi's tail - knowing he could pass them at any time.  It was fun trying to guess where they'd choke and run wide.  Give us some suspense Casey.

[malcolmgb]

I agree with your request for a little showmanship, perhaps we had that last night, at the start of the race he appeared to be on an equal powered machine but that was possibly because the bike was running on a high mpg setting.
As I remember Stoner was always crashing in his 250cc days so It was not new to him when he started in MotoGP.
I'm sorry but I don't understand all the hype about Hayden, I see him as a good rider not a great rider.

[tsflstb]

I agree most of us Americans give Hayden a little too much credit.  He is a world champion, but the reality is that Rossi DNF'd 2 or 3 races with mechanical problems in '06.  Nicky won the championship with consistent poduims, not nearly as convincing as Rossi or Stoner's runs. 

He's an incredible talent, but so are all the riders at this level.  I'll admit Toseland, Lorenzo and even Pedrosa have more of a future in GP.  I guess having followed Hayden's career from the local club races and dirt track to the AMA and on to the world stage I'm a little biased.

We may get a taste of America's future with Ben Spies riding as a wild card this year.  His size and weight will hurt him in MotoGP, but he has serious talent and a much more aggressive style than Hayden.

[CrisPDuk]

I put a big post in her this morning and it's disappeared   Oh well


I think Stoner's taking it easy in the first few laps was a sign of his growing maturity, either that or he was trying not to fall off laughing at the Yamahas and their fairing swapping escapades   I also suspect he knows something about the Bridgestones that Rossi has yet to learn, ie; maybe you can't cane them from the outset or they'll go off too quickly

I think Toseland will put in a better showing once the series proper kicks of in Jerez, the fact that he got it up to second on the grid with that much of a power handicap shows that he must have something extra in the cornering department

With regards to Nicky Hayden I've always liked him, on the 990s his dirt track style was a real advantage, especially in the braking zones, I also think he was thoroughly deserving of his title win, remember he had his share of bad luck mechanically that year, he was riding a development bike all year, and if it wasn't for Pedrosa, Rossi would have been without even a mathematical chance in the last round, then at the end of the day it was the Doctor who choked in Valencia
And always remember, 'To finish first, first you must finish', Just because it's a cliche, doesn't stop it being true


BTW tsflstb, Stoner's first year in MotoGP was on the LCR Honda, not a Suzuki. You only have to look at how badly that bike has always performed with anyone else on it to realise how far beyond it's ability Stoner must have been riding the thing to get it up to the positions he was usually in when he binned it

[tsflstb]

BTW tsflstb, Stoner's first year in MotoGP was on the LCR Honda, not a Suzuki. You only have to look at how badly that bike has always performed with anyone else on it to realise how far beyond it's ability Stoner must have been riding the thing to get it up to the positions he was usually in when he binned it

Oops, you're right about the Honda I remember him on it (or actually off of it alot). 

If anybody can slide a bike around it's Hayden.  I got a close up look at a dirt track school several years ago where he was an instructor.  He could make an XR100 do amazing things. 

The new Honda doesn't seem to respond to that kind of style, and I'm sure it's killing him to run around in 10th place.  If you look at the number of laps completed in testing he's always at the top, so it's not for lack of effort.

You guys are really sharp and probably have a lot more insight on MotoGP being outside of the US.  It's awesome to be able to talk racing with people that actually follow the series.  It's still more of a novelty to folks here.

[Sam Green Racing]

I think Stoner's taking it easy in the first few laps was a sign of his growing maturity, either that or he was trying not to fall off laughing at the Yamahas and their fairing swapping escapades   I also suspect he knows something about the Bridgestones that Rossi has yet to learn, ie; maybe you can't cane them from the outset or they'll go off too quickly

I think Toseland will put in a better showing once the series proper kicks of in Jerez, the fact that he got it up to second on the grid with that much of a power handicap shows that he must have something extra in the cornering department

To add to what Noel has said, allthough I have not kept an eye on winter testing I have followed Toeslands career from a junior, where after falling off an AR80 kwak 3 times in a 6 lap race against kids on 125 Cagiva Mitos and still winning,  showed he had talent from the start.

When you look at the speeds of the bikes, James bike was 8th, proving again what Noel said about the guys cornering ability.

Give him the more technical tracks and watch him go.

Sam. (the straight line expert)

[malcolmgb]

Top speeds can be very misleading, the traps can often be in the braking area. The fastest bike out there was Marco Melandri in 11th place.

[Sam Green Racing]

I realise that Malc but, you could see them gapping James on the straight, then he would close them back down on the rest of the circuit.

And just out of curiosity, how is circuit spelt in the US ?

Sam.

[bwaller]

Well Sam,  I'll admit I was wrong about JT, I had him fading as the race wore on and that wasn't the case, good on him. This class sure has become a young mans game though, moreso all the time. That Stoner looks like about 12.

[Sam Green Racing]

He sure is a talent Brent, give JT the same bike and you would have hell of a scrap.

Sam.

[nickjtc]

I can't predict. All I hope is that no one rider runs away with it this year. But I'll go out on a limb and say that I do not think that Stoner will win the championship again. Surely Honda will be playing a very quick catch-up this year??

[malcolmgb]

And just out of curiosity, how is circuit spelt in the US ?

Sam.

can't help you there Sam, I'm English 

Surely Honda will be playing a very quick catch-up this year??

Don't hold your breath on that one they couldn't decide whether to use the '07 or '08 bike on Sunday

[nickjtc]

Don't hold your breath on that one they couldn't decide whether to use the '07 or '08 bike on Sunday

Sigh

[De La Nooch]

And just out of curiosity, how is circuit spelt in the US ?

Sam.

Same. Circuit is circuit.  Is that what you meant or there a joke I don't get? 

[xtalon]

I must say that I didn't expect Toseland or Lorenzo to do what they did... but mainly Toseland.  I don't say that because I doubt his talent or his drive... not at all.  I say it because today's MotoGP bikes suit the 250 riders (high corner speed) as opposed to the snarling sideways sliding 500cc bikes of the 80's and 90's and to a lot lesser degree the 990's.  I mean look at all the 250 riders that come right into MotoGP these days and go right to the front.  Before Rossi, multi-time 250 World Champs used to come into GP and raced mid-pack.  Not anymore.  So I semi-expected Lorenzo to eventually get up front (although not already be up front), but I clearly expected Toseland to struggle.  WELL DONE to them both!

I also have to say that all the Yamaha's faired very well which is a testament to how good their bike is this year.  Honda will quickly improve and be up there with them.  Pedrosa had a modified '08 chasiss this week for  Qatar.  Listening to Hayden's comments, he didn't, so he resorted to the '07 bike.  He should get the newer chassis for the next race and Honda WILL work out the pneumatic engine and then we will see some battling.

Malcomgb, I think most of us pull for Hayden because a lot of us are Yanks and pull for our fellow yanks, just like you Brits pull for Toseland.  On top of that, Hayden is just a good kid.  My biggest beef is that he has always played second fiddle at Honda.  Rightly deserved behind Rossi, but then behind Barros and Biaggi (both whom he out rode by the way) and now Pedrosa, so he is always riding someone else's equipment.  I think the only year he probably had a say in the bike development was Pedrosa's 1st year ('06) and Nicky won the World Championship, while being the development rider.  Granted it was with some luck and unluck for Rossi/Yamaha, but at the end of the year, he scored the most points and that's all that mattered. 

How does Honda reward him?  They develop the mighty midget Pedrosa bike.

I was actually semi-glad that Pedrosa could not ride/develop the new '08, so maybe Nicky could bring the bike more in his direction.  Other than the engine, he was making great progress.  How does Honda reward him?  They give Pedrosa the new chassis for the 1st race and not Nicky.  People can say whatever they want, but he doesn't get a fair shake from Honda and I hope he finds greener pastures at the end of this year.

When Rossi left Honda, Jeremy Burgess was going to stay at Honda, but he wanted his choice of rider.  He wanted Hayden, but Honda said no and that they were going to put him with their choice - Barros.  So, Burgess left and so did the World Championship.... and if my math is right, I believe that Burgess fellow has 11 World Championships (Gardner-1, Doohan-5 and Rossi-5). To me, that says a lot.

--xTalon

[bwaller]

I'm a race fan and appreciate all the talent out there. I'm also another of those guys that has a lot of respect for Nicky as well. Most of us on this continent have watched him from day one, and I too think he deserves better. BUT who really knows what goes on behind closed doors.

As the saying goes "you can't win em all" but I wonder if Mr. Honda would be happy with the outcome of his company's race efforts the last couple years, two or four wheel?

[CrisPDuk]

People can say whatever they want, but he doesn't get a fair shake from Honda and I hope he finds greener pastures at the end of this year.

And that was the reason they lost Rossi in the first place

[Sam Green Racing]

And just out of curiosity, how is circuit spelt in the US ?

Sam.

Same. Circuit is circuit.  Is that what you meant or there a joke I don't get? 

I knew I had got it wrong and thought, leave it to the spell checker. When it didn't pick up on it, I wondered if the American spelling was how I first did it. To get it right, I got out my dictionary

Sam.